HELP me decide on which 1911 Kimber to buy

[C85D4x4]

Ok, well I fell in love with my WW1 Springfield 1911. I'm feeling that I need to stop putting rounds through it before something go's wrong with the 90 year old gun. I have not been able to find any other 45 cal platform that I like more.

So..............I need help from all you 1911 lovers out there.

I have been wanting to buy a new 1911 for over a year now and it looks like kimber is the Manufacturer that I am going with. So when I saw the CDP....It was like love at first sight.
BUT It has been troublesome for the past 6 months trying to decide between the full size 5" Custom CDP or the 3" Ultra CDP.

The 3" Ultra CDP

The 5" Custom CDP

Which ever one I choose, Its going to be occasionally used for CCW permit I just received (looking at the Milt Sparks IWB VM-2 holster). This is why I need help on making this decision.


I am well aware of the 4" Compact and Pro CDPs, but the way I look at it.........If I'm going to decide between a small 1911 or a large 1911.........I am go all out.........and not wuss out for the size in between. If I am going to pull away from the full size, It would only be the Ultra 3" for concealment and comfort. But what I'm mostly afraid of with the Ultra is that I might loose the ACCURACY which I love so much at the range with its 3" barrel and the light weight aluminum. I'm not just talking about 15ft here.....


This is not a decision I going to take lightly because of the amount of money these tools of defense cost.


Eventually I am hoping to have both an Ultra and a Full size, but this day is far off being I'm not made of money. I was originally going to get the CDP in the full size and maybe later get a Ultra with the Crimson trace lasergrips. But I wasn't sure if the laser was adjustable or accurate and really all that necessary depending on how the accuracy of the gun was.

ALSO.....I would like to know if the Ultra's springs and other parts last as long as there full size counter parts? Does anything wear out any faster?


Thank you,
Chris

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

I am hoping to pickup a standard Springfield or Rock Island (heavy mods) soon.

Do either of those use a front bushing? That is one of my main issues, I want the bushing and lock. Heck, you can always get more parts for the Springfield, should take any after market part meant for a GI 1911. That being said, I like the smaller one, especially if you have CCW in mind.

 

[relyt]

If I were you, I'd stay away from Kimber. I've heard too many stories of made in Mexico parts breaking on them.

Granted, that one is a relatively easy fix, but I wouldn't spend that much money on a gun of questionable quality.

 

[IceNineKills]

X2 on the love for the 1911 platform. I have a Norinco 1911 That is crazy tough. From what I understand most shorter 45 pistols have issues like crazy. I can't remember why. But if you do opt for the full size (anyone correct me if i'm wrong), you have more parts options, easier to find spare mags (Like everywhere!) and concealed carry isn't all that bad considering the gun is pretty slender. I have a waist holster and when i'm wearing a light jacket you'd never know it was there. And I'm 5'7" 150 lbs.

I also agree on Kimber being so-so. But i think the LAPD SWAT team uses em so I guess they can't be too bad. From what I understand Springfield Milspec 1911's are pretty good and as close as it gets to your 90 year old from what I remember LOL

 

[IceNineKills]

I am hoping to pickup a standard Springfield or Rock Island (heavy mods) soon.

Do either of those use a front bushing? That is one of my main issues, I want the bushing and lock. Heck, you can always get more parts for the Springfield, should take any after market part meant for a GI 1911. That being said, I like the smaller one, especially if you have CCW in mind.

Springfield and rock island both have a front bushing. That's basic 1911 assembly. And look up www.wilsoncombat.com i think is the address. You can pretty much customize any basic 1911. There are quite a few different brands out there, when you really wanna spend some dough look up the Ed Brown special forces 1911 www.edbrown.com it's my favorite gun i've never owned LOL

 

[madmax]

I say kimber ultra RCP II
I also own a pro carry BP ten II. Its a bit on the heavy side but 13+1 is NICE!!!!

 

[Cnickgo]

I see a big key in your decision being how comfortable/concealed a full 1911 frame will be during CCW purposes. I would go try on a few different holsters and see how that goes. If you can comfortably carry a 5" frame, is there any real reason to go with the subcompact?

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

Springfield and rock island both have a front bushing. That's basic 1911 assembly. And look up www.wilsoncombat.com i think is the address. You can pretty much customize any basic 1911. There are quite a few different brands out there, when you really wanna spend some dough look up the Ed Brown special forces 1911 www.edbrown.com it's my favorite gun i've never owned LOL

I meant do either of those kimbers have the front bushing, I know both of my suggestions have one. Kimber tends to stray a little from the basic design in a few places that cause you to have to use kimber only parts. I want a basic 1911, easier to customize and find parts for. Less chance of crap going wrong.

 

[wavingpine11]

I own a 4" carry version of the Kimber line. Aluminum frame, stainless slide. I've had several issues with it. Not too many months ago I was shooting it at a friend's place, and the magazine dropped out while I was shooting it. After inspection of the pieces, which we recovered with a magnet from the ground (grass, dirt, rocks make it hard to find tiny parts!), it was evident that the tiny little tab on the retaining post for the mag release had broken off.

Overall, I like the accuracy of this pistol. In fact, I shoot better with it than with any other pistol that I've used and I am also very pleased with the trigger, which I think has a lot to do with the accuracy I get out of it. One irritating "feature" of this pistol is the ability to eject brass right onto my forehead. Good thing I wear safety glasses when I go target shooting. Then only other problem I've had with it is anything but minor, if it were to be used for self defense. I have had problems time and time again with it failing to feed. Even with ball ammunition. I bought several new Kimber mags to see if this was the issue. It does feed more consistently with the Kimber brand mags, but still gets hung up sometimes, particularly with the +P Ranger ammo, but with that load, it is usually a failure to eject that gets me ratehr than a failure to feed. The pistol was sold to me as feeding and cycling true, and it fails to deliver too often. I clean it thoroughly after every or every other shooting session. I have noticed no difference between feeding likelihood between freshly cleaned and not cleaned before usage. In any event, the gun is not allowed to become cruddy and dysfunctional at any time.

After the mag release pin broke, I took it to my friendly neighborhood gun dealer who I've developed a good releationship with. He told me, "I know you don't want to hear this, but Kimbers are junk." He pointed out that their small parts are manufactured using metal injection molding technology rather than being milled from solid stock, and that they break all the time. I was torn. I didn't want to believe him. After all, Kimbers are the 1911's that claim to shoot reliably like a custom rig right out of the box. Alas, that is not my story to tell here. Even so, I won't be selling this pistol anytime soon. As I was saying, it is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot including Smith and Wesson revolvers, Colt revolvers, Glocks, Sigs, etc. This may be my interaction with the gun, but it lines up very naturally for me and the trigger is unbeatable for me.

Even so, I find that it isn't the most easily concealed weapon for the CCW holder. I prefer the Glock 27 in 40 S&W for that task. The subcompact Glock is not my favorite shooter, but it is very easy to conceal. Many people hate the grip angle, many people hate the two finger grip that leaves the pinky hanging, many people hate the so-called safe-action trigger, and many people hate the way that it fails to line up naturally with their eye, but the way I see it, it never fails to feed, it never fails to fire, I have no problem with the way it points for me, and a gun uncarried due to being uncomfortable is a gun that is never able to tip the odds in your favor.

So the Kimber gets points for being very accurate, very nice looking (to my eye), and having the best trigger my finger has ever squeezed, but the Glock just beats it out on concealability and reliability, and I don't even like the aesthetics (or lack thereof) of plastic guns. It's possible that my Kimber could be massaged into total reliability, and in that event, I would be more apt to carry it, but only in the winter as I feel it prints a bit much given my frame for warm weather and t-shirts, whereas a long t-shirt will do just fine for the Glock. I understand that the MIM parts in the Kimber could be swapped out pretty easily for better quality stuff, but like many, I'm too busy putting my time and money into my Jeep right now, so I'll just keep carrying the perfectly reliable Glock. Bottom line, I love my Kimber but will carry my Glock. I've never owned a full size 1911, so I don't know if they are more reliable. But I know that a full size set-up would be even less likley to be concealable for me.

My two cents. . .

--wavingpine11

 

[steed76]

MMM... wow I have had "0" trouble with mine. and shoot 100 rounds a week or so. I carry a pro-carry 5" full custom from their custom shop. I absolutely LOVE this gun. I use a shoulder harness made by allessi(check spelling) it's called the bodyguard. THey are a little bit salty but they dont ride up and sit well on my shoulders. This gun is a little heavy but very well balanced and accurate as can be. My father-in-law who is a collector, has a small collection of Kimbers and will not carry any other hand-gun. P.S. get the crimson trace laser sights at a gun show.. waaay cheaper!

 

[wavingpine11]

MMM... wow I have had "0" trouble with mine. and shoot 100 rounds a week or so. I carry a pro-carry 5" full custom from their custom shop. I absolutely LOVE this gun. I use a shoulder harness made by allessi(check spelling) it's called the bodyguard. THey are a little bit salty but they dont ride up and sit well on my shoulders. This gun is a little heavy but very well balanced and accurate as can be. My father-in-law who is a collector, has a small collection of Kimbers and will not carry any other hand-gun. P.S. get the crimson trace laser sights at a gun show.. waaay cheaper!

Glad your experience has been better than mine. I do love the gun as a shooter, which is why I won't sell it, but I won't carry it again until it functions flawlessly for me. That's really my main hang-up with it. Eventually I'll be looking into polishing the internals to see if I can get it there. . . just too many other projects to take on right now. I like the shoulder rigs, but again, when warm weather hits, they aren't practical for me. I'd say if you can get a Kimber that shoots 100% and you love it and you can conceal it well, then go for it.

My criteria in a carry gun are simple: 1) It always does what it is supposed to do mechanically. 2) All other aspects of its use feel comfortable to me. 3) It is able to "disappear" as it should for concealed carry. If you find a Kimber or any other pistol that does this for you, it's a keeper in my opinion, regardless of brand or anyone else's opinion.

The most ideal scenario is being able to handle, or even better, shoot the pistol in question, before putting the money down for it. If it's a new pistol, you don't get the luxury of shooting it, only the satisfaction of being its first owner. Had I been able to put a few hundred rounds down the barrel of my Kimber, I would not have bought it. Now I have it, have come to like it quite a bit, but can't trust it 100%. Honestly, I wish I could post up how 100% my Kimber is, but I would be lying.

My limitation is that I've only owned one, and I've only shot one, so my experience may not be statistically relevant. I hope it's not. But my gunsmith friend really had a low opinion of them as well, which he had kept to himself until I brought it in with the broken retaining pin, whereupon he went on his rant about cheap small parts, perhaps like the broken safety pictured above in relyt's post. He showed me how to take down the pistol completely, cleaned each part, and installed a new pin free of charge (good to have a friend like that!) But one of the things that caught my attention was when he took off the palm safety and pointed out the thin MIM construction. I hadn't actually been sure whethere that part was plastic (because it looked like injection molded plastic) or metal prior to that time. I think he may have had a good point about the small parts. But again, he has his opinion, I have mine, partially molded by his and of course my negative experiences, and then there is the reality of the whole set of Kimber products, which I am wholly ignorant about! I hope to sway no one's opinion by myself, but only to give my first hand impressions and experience.

--wp11

 

[steed76]

I can't imagine having dealt with what you have with that piece! Maybe some custom parts are in your future?? Truthfully speaking if you've torn the gun all the way down, you could probably do alot of the work yourself? But you sound like you a prety close with your gunsmith. THe county that I live in unfortunatly is very anti-gun therefore aside from the sporting goods store who sells handguns, there is no gunsmith nearby. So i regularly tear my piece down bare for cleaning etc. I will say that i at first bought some cheap "target" rounds and the kimber doesn't like cheap ammo. My best friend bought a Glock composite late last year and he loves it, it breaks down in about 5 seconds. But he loves the accuracy and balance of mine. I think for the most part it seems to be a crap shoot. I think it's all what the owner is comfortable carrying. Sorry for your bad experience.:cheers:

 

[wavingpine11]

I can't imagine having dealt with what you have with that piece! Maybe some custom parts are in your future?? Truthfully speaking if you've torn the gun all the way down, you could probably do alot of the work yourself? But you sound like you a prety close with your gunsmith. THe county that I live in unfortunatly is very anti-gun therefore aside from the sporting goods store who sells handguns, there is no gunsmith nearby. So i regularly tear my piece down bare for cleaning etc. I will say that i at first bought some cheap "target" rounds and the kimber doesn't like cheap ammo. My best friend bought a Glock composite late last year and he loves it, it breaks down in about 5 seconds. But he loves the accuracy and balance of mine. I think for the most part it seems to be a crap shoot. I think it's all what the owner is comfortable carrying. Sorry for your bad experience.:cheers:

No worries. I don't regret buying it--with a $400 sticker price from a friend who was liquidating his small collection a few years ago, I have room to invest in better parts before I even come close to hitting retail value. Just not now. The 45 is a really nice shooting round. I generally only shoot what I'd be carrying through it, though, so no junk rounds go through it. Mostly Winchester HP and Winchester Ranger HP. I know that the HP is supposed to be more likely tro hang up while feeding, but in this case, FMJ did the same thing. I was surprised because of the excellent reputation that Kimber enjoys, which is why I bought it from my friend on his word that it was a reliable shooter in the first place. In the end, he was apologetic, but I liked it enough to keep it and didn't ask to undo the deal, even though as I said before I wouldn't have bought it had I fired it first. Using real Kimber mags did help alleviate 90% of the jams, though, which is a plus. I had a bunch of Colt mags that jammed much more often, which ironically enough, I recently traded to the guy who sold me the pistol for some black rifle mags. He was attracted to the Colt name and possible future resale, and doesn't even have a 1911 anymore.

 

[RichP]

I have all full sized colt gold cups, anything else is a copy
That said the Springfield GI issue short barrel is a good starting gun for CCW, two things need to be done first, open the ejection port and some ramp work if you want to feed anything other than ball.
My son has run the whole line, kimbers, glocks, etc, he still loves my gold cups.

 

[C85D4x4]

Overall, I like the accuracy of this pistol. In fact, I shoot better with it than with any other pistol that I've used and I am also very pleased with the trigger, which I think has a lot to do with the accuracy I get out of it. One irritating "feature" of this pistol is the ability to eject brass right onto my forehead. Good thing I wear safety glasses when I go target shooting. Then only other problem I've had with it is anything but minor, if it were to be used for self defense. I have had problems time and time again with it failing to feed. Even with ball ammunition. I bought several new Kimber mags to see if this was the issue. It does feed more consistently with the Kimber brand mags, but still gets hung up sometimes, particularly with the +P Ranger ammo, but with that load, it is usually a failure to eject that gets me ratehr than a failure to feed. The pistol was sold to me as feeding and cycling true, and it fails to deliver too often. I clean it thoroughly after every or every other shooting session. I have noticed no difference between feeding likelihood between freshly cleaned and not cleaned before usage. In any event, the gun is not allowed to become cruddy and dysfunctional at any time.

--wavingpine11

Im no expert but........it sounds to me that ether your extractor tension needs to be reset. Also making sure the recoil spring is of the proper weight.

 

[wavingpine11]

Im no expert but........it sounds to me that ether your extractor tension needs to be reset. Also making sure the recoil spring is of the proper weight.

I'm certainly not an expert either. My gunsmith told me that the ejector was short and a longer ejector would facilitate earlier ejection at a better angle, if you're referring to the forehead impacting cases issue. That made sense to me, although it certainly doesn't rule out a possible extractor tension issue, which I would assume would be on the side of too much tension. . . I'm envisioning it holding on too tightly/too long and thus ejecting at a more extreme angle if I'm understanding your modeling of the possible cause of the problem.

For the FTF issue, he was of the opinion that polishing the surfaces that contact the cartridge as it attempts to feed should help. I totally see where you're going with the recoil spring weight, though. I've wondered about that possibility as well. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Guns are so much simpler than Jeeps, yet even so, numerous possibilities still pop up when troubleshooting.

If I'm lucky, when I get around to dealing with this, I can just go back to my gunsmith with parts in hand and he'll walk me through the parts swap and we'll do the polishing the same day or thereabouts. I definitely didn't retain everything he showed me the first time around!

--wp11

 

[C85D4x4]

I'm certainly not an expert either. My gunsmith told me that the ejector was short and a longer ejector would facilitate earlier ejection at a better angle, if you're referring to the forehead impacting cases issue. That made sense to me, although it certainly doesn't rule out a possible extractor tension issue, which I would assume would be on the side of too much tension. . . I'm envisioning it holding on too tightly/too long and thus ejecting at a more extreme angle if I'm understanding your modeling of the possible cause of the problem.

For the FTF issue, he was of the opinion that polishing the surfaces that contact the cartridge as it attempts to feed should help. I totally see where you're going with the recoil spring weight, though. I've wondered about that possibility as well. Thanks for your thoughts on this. Guns are so much simpler than Jeeps, yet even so, numerous possibilities still pop up when troubleshooting.

If I'm lucky, when I get around to dealing with this, I can just go back to my gunsmith with parts in hand and he'll walk me through the parts swap and we'll do the polishing the same day or thereabouts. I definitely didn't retain everything he showed me the first time around!

--wp11

Also your extractor could also be slightly rotating causing the problem. If its to short you could try stoning the back side of the extractor hook. (dont know the proper name for it)

 

[wavingpine11]

Also your extractor could also be slightly rotating causing the problem. If its to short you could try stoning the back side of the extractor hook. (dont know the proper name for it)

I don't follow. . . what is stoning? Also, how would I be able to tell if it was rotating?

Hey, I feel like we're in the OEM tech forum!

--wp11

 

[wavingpine11]

C85D4x4--Personally, if size is not an issue, I'd go for the 5" barrel. I've used a S&W full size 10mm pistol before (5") and love the full size version of the gun. The S&W 10 mm line is base don the 1911 platform but has a different trigger and was built from the ground up to handle the higher stress of the 10 mm load. The only drawback to the S&W system IMHO is the use of the conventional trigger rather than a 1911 style trigger, which is naturally not an issue with the Kimbers. With my 4" version and open sights, I can repeatably shoot a 5" steel target no problem at 30 yards. Certianly, aim would be worse under extreme duress, the only time you really need such a weapon, but it's a great starting point for confidence building. For me with my 4", the concealment factor is not related to the barrel length so much as the grip, which prints like crazy for me through my typical casual clothes. I think in that regard a 3" barrel wouldn't help me any, just lose me some projectile velocity, although maybe a 5" would become an issue due to length. That's really why I went Glock for carry purposes, to get a shorter grip, and I had another friend, a really skinny guy, who had one as his carry weapon and he eventually talked me into one. Not trying to talk you into something you don't want, just detailing why it was my carry choice. I also thought about a subcompact HK in .40 but it was way more money.

Have you tried a carry rig out for your full size 1911 to see if it suits you in that regard? I'd recommend doing that before you decide on barrel length. If you can stuff it effectively and live with that set-up, why downsize from what you love, are very familiar with, and what you know shoots the hardest and fastest?

--wp11

 

[C85D4x4]

I don't follow. . . what is stoning? Also, how would I be able to tell if it was rotating?

Hey, I feel like we're in the OEM tech forum!

--wp11

Stoning is when you use a stone......... like a knife sharpening stone.

You can check if the extractor is rotating by grabbing the hook end inside the chamber using small pliers or tweezers make sure that it is not clocking back and forth inside its tunnel.


Also.....if you are interested.....you can check the tension of the extractor buy field striping the gun and then placing a 45 ammo round from under the slide with the extractor holding onto it. The round should just slightly hold in there w/o falling out (maybe drooping some). But remember......Im no expert.