HD Tie-Rod Needed...

[ROCKWGN]

I have a Dana 44 front end with cross-over steering. My drag-link and tie-rod are connected separately to the passenger side knuckle. I have a solid 1-ton tie-rod from a truck, and I keep bending it on big rocks. I have straightened it too many times. I have heard that the tubing is stronger than the solid stuff.

1. What is the best material to make a tie-rod out of?
2. What would be a good OD and wall thickness?
3. Who carries HD threaded inserts?
4. Are Heim joints ends advisable for the street, I drive most of the time on the street, daily driver. If not would would you recommend?
5. If Heims are good, where is a good reasonable source?

Thanks,
Sean M.

 

[Grant]

I prefer DOM (drawn over mandrel) for those applications.

I use Aurora heims, if you use a supplier like Avalanche, then purchase the heim, and the threaded insert from them. your DOM size then depends on the size of the heim insert. I used Aurora heims with Avalanche inserts and used 1.5" DOM with .250 wall, weld the plugs in, use at least two rosette welds.

Also consider using high mis-alignment spacers from Spidertrax. These allow the maximum travel out of your heims.

Heims are good enough for street use, but will require regular maintenance and may require replacement eventually. They have zero "play" compared to a poly bushing which can translate into a harshness on the street - but only in suspension control arms, for steering they will be fine. Heims should be cleaned and lubed periodically, more often if you run in mud or dust.

If you would like, contact me backchannel ([email protected]), and I can build the both the tie-rod and drag link for you, including the heims.

Grant

 

[Grant]

Just a quick note.

I have bent the 1.5" .250 wall DOM but that requres quite an effort. Like falling off a rock onto your tie rod- I fear if I built it any stronger those hits would break knuckles rather than bending tie rods.

 

[CRASH]

I use 1.25" x .25" wall DOM, and it's pretty stout. You only need it stronger if you're South African and have trouble driving properly.......

I get my 7/8" inserts that fit 1 ton TRE's from Rock Equipment (Tony K. on POR). I had Heims before, and feel good about using them, but TRE's are easier to use, and don't require fabbing a double sheer mount. I think the one ton Chevy TRE's allow for more angular deflection as well.

CRASH

 

[Goatman]

Sean, Grant only bent that tie rod at JV, probably last Nov when we had to talk him into finishing the trail. I didn't know you bent yours, when did you do it?

Since you already have the tie rod ends, I think Andy's set up would be a good way for you to go, especially if you already have the 1 ton TRE's.

 

[Matt]

Just because I used some solid stock 1.5" 4130 with the ends drilled and tapped for 3/4" 16 TPI (left and right) The damn thing is going to be the only staight item left on the entire heep (I recently bent a pitman arm rather than any steering linkage components ) Enjoy

Matt

 

[SV1CEC]

Sean, Grant only bent that tie rod at JV, probably last Nov when we had to talk him into finishing the trail. I didn't know you bent yours, when did you do it?

Since you already have the tie rod ends, I think Andy's set up would be a good way for you to go, especially if you already have the 1 ton TRE's.

Gentlemen,

Letely, I've been reading every steering-related thread I can find, so please read on and let me know if you can help.

My XJ had developped a very bad steering feel, since the day my lift was installed (Rusty's 4.5", which however gave me almost 6" of lift). The steering is vague, with no straight-ahead position detectable, I need to apply small corrections to keep the truck straight. The truck has been in two alignment shops and the steering does not get any better. Trying to solve the problem, I went to both a ZJ dropped pitman arm (1" drop) and a Skyjacker arm (2.5" of drop), with no great results.

I am therefore wondering, if a tie-rod conversion would be the way to go, to solve my steering problem, and if that should be an over- or under-the-knuckle one.

I've tried to find such solutions on the net. Rusty is offering one, his old one, but I've heard good and bad things about it. His newer one seems to be an over the knuckle one, but I am not sure if it will fit without too much implications, in his picture, I can see no sway bar mounts on the axle and no trackbar mount. Living in Greece, it is not easy for me to trust shops to chop my axle, these people have never seen a lifted Cherokee before, so they are not what you call experts on this subject.

I also found other shops, like Performance Unlimited, which are selling some very interesting setups, but again, they cannot tell me if I would have to relocate the sway bar arms and to where.

So, I am (once again) asking for your expertise. What have you experienced with your XJs?

Any info would be sincerely appreciated.

Rgds

 

[TN William]

I just finished a new tierod and draglink from 1.25" x .3125" DOM. I like this stock because it has a .625" id. It is easy to open up to .685 and tap with a 3/4" tap so I don't need inserts.

 

[ChuckD]

Gentlemen,

Letely, I've been reading every steering-related thread I can find, so please read on and let me know if you can help.

My XJ had developped a very bad steering feel, since the day my lift was installed (Rusty's 4.5", which however gave me almost 6" of lift). The steering is vague, with no straight-ahead position detectable, I need to apply small corrections to keep the truck straight. The truck has been in two alignment shops and the steering does not get any better. Trying to solve the problem, I went to both a ZJ dropped pitman arm (1" drop) and a Skyjacker arm (2.5" of drop), with no great results.

I am therefore wondering, if a tie-rod conversion would be the way to go, to solve my steering problem, and if that should be an over- or under-the-knuckle one.

I've tried to find such solutions on the net. Rusty is offering one, his old one, but I've heard good and bad things about it. His newer one seems to be an over the knuckle one, but I am not sure if it will fit without too much implications, in his picture, I can see no sway bar mounts on the axle and no trackbar mount. Living in Greece, it is not easy for me to trust shops to chop my axle, these people have never seen a lifted Cherokee before, so they are not what you call experts on this subject.

I also found other shops, like Performance Unlimited, which are selling some very interesting setups, but again, they cannot tell me if I would have to relocate the sway bar arms and to where.

So, I am (once again) asking for your expertise. What have you experienced with your XJs?

Any info would be sincerely appreciated.

Rgds

It sounds like a caster issue. If your getting closer to 6" of lift and Rusty kit came with the fixed link arms, then your caster may be off. The other part is the Track Bar, is it the HD or just and Adjustable? As far as steering kits, I would say most of them will help your probelm and help make your steering better. Right now I have about 6-6.5" up front and had to go through a major alignmnet process. I had learned a lot from Performance Unlimited and the GoJeep web sites and my mechanic. Caster will effect how the vehicle drives a straight line.

HTH

 

[Bender]

I'd agree with Chuck.

Caster is also one of those alignment specs that shops sometimes don't adjust... I'm not sure why but it happens. Do you have your printouts from the alignment shops??

Perhaps posting your current specs would help diagnose the problem.

 

[SV1CEC]

Chuck and Bender,

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

This issue is a bit complicated. Initially I had the fixed LCA and we tried to align the truck. Even with all the shims inserted below the LCAs, it was impossible to bring caster to 7.5 degrees, all we achieved was 3 or 3.5.

So I ordered the adjustable upper arms and with them adjusted per Rusty's instructions, the caster was at around 5 degrees. Not too far off to cause such a bad steer, I think. So I then turned to the pitman arms game, where the 1" drop arm of the ZJ did make some difference.

Rusty said "if a 1" drop arm makes it better, then a 2.5" drop would make it even better". So I got the Skyjacker's arm, but things didn't improve as much as I expected.

To complicate things even more, at 5 degrees of caster, my front driveshaft (the stupid one, not the one with the double cardan), started making noises, so I had to spend time changing that to a new one, which has the double cardan and hopefully it would be able to better handle the pinion angle. Today, I took the driveshaft to a shop to have it shortened a bit, and I'll probably have it back tomorrow, so hopefully, some time this week, I'll have the truck aligned again, the first time with the new axle (so no noise, I hope) and the adjustable upper arms.

I also will go to another shop. You see, here in Athens, there aren't too many lifted Jeeps, so not many shops know how to treat these animals. Just today, I was told about a shop, which has some experience, so I'll try him out too.

If we manage to have the 7.5 degrees caster and the toe-in at zero, and the truck still drives like it does now, I don't know what to do next.

This is the reason I am asking around for the tie-rod conversions.

To answer Chuck's question, my track bar is the simple adjustable one, but since I have found that my TRE has gone bad lately, I asked Rusty to send me the conversion, which will put a bushing at the frame end and his heavy duty mount. I think I'll postpone the alignment, until these are installed as well, I hate to have to do it again.

What you guys suggest, over the knuckle system or under the knuckle? Please keep in mind that I wouldn't like to have to cut and weld parts on the axle (or anywhere else), due to the lack of experience of the local shops, so a conversion which is bolt-on, is preferable for me.

Again, many thanks and kind regards

 

[ChuckD]

The trackbar mount will help, remember the drag link and the track bar need to be parallel. So when you used the Skyjacker pitman, it put the drag link too low. After describing your caster, you may need adjustable lowers, that is what helps the vehicle drive straight. Definitely new steering links will help the slop and I too will be changing my setup to an inverted T. I would recommend the Performance Unlimited over the Rusty's kit. I don't have first hand expierence, but the consesus on the board tend to lean away from Rusty's. Fortunate for you that you don't have any Death Wobble.

 

[SV1CEC]

The trackbar mount will help, remember the drag link and the track bar need to be parallel. So when you used the Skyjacker pitman, it put the drag link too low. After describing your caster, you may need adjustable lowers, that is what helps the vehicle drive straight. Definitely new steering links will help the slop and I too will be changing my setup to an inverted T. I would recommend the Performance Unlimited over the Rusty's kit. I don't have first hand expierence, but the consesus on the board tend to lean away from Rusty's. Fortunate for you that you don't have any Death Wobble.

Thank God, I do not have it!

However, what do you suggest, above or below the knuckle? There is also another vendor, Down East of road, which offer a complete kit, with new knuckles etc. I think they are using TREs though.

Rgds

 

[ChuckD]

From what I have seen the more money you want to throw at it. The better the product, If your gtting into it that far, you may want to consider the ZJ knuckle swap. That way you can do the over the knuckle and get bigger Disks to boot. I myself am on a very limited budget, so I'm looking at doing XJWORLD's (ZPD's) steering links, one of the easiest and least evasive setup's I have seen. If I could afford it, I would do a over the knuckle, but if money was definitely not an issue, I would just do a HP D44, with flat top knuckles. That way, you get a stronger axle, larger disks, and over the knuckle steering , all-in-one.

It really depends on what you can afford to do. The ZPD setup only costs aroung $150. Uses TRE's which I believe are the way to go. Unless you use the really expensive hiem's, but too expensive for me.

 

[SV1CEC]

From what I have seen the more money you want to throw at it. The better the product, If your gtting into it that far, you may want to consider the ZJ knuckle swap. That way you can do the over the knuckle and get bigger Disks to boot. I myself am on a very limited budget, so I'm looking at doing XJWORLD's (ZPD's) steering links, one of the easiest and least evasive setup's I have seen. If I could afford it, I would do a over the knuckle, but if money was definitely not an issue, I would just do a HP D44, with flat top knuckles. That way, you get a stronger axle, larger disks, and over the knuckle steering , all-in-one.

It really depends on what you can afford to do. The ZPD setup only costs aroung $150. Uses TRE's which I believe are the way to go. Unless you use the really expensive hiem's, but too expensive for me.

Oh sure, I would love to do a Dana 44, but that is Item 2978 in my -to-do-list. What I want is to solve this steering problem, it is annoying enough to make driving the Jeep a not very enviable pass time.

Where can I find some more info on the ZPD setup? I tried "www.xjworld.com" and "www.zpd.com" with no success.

Since I think we have monopolized this thread, with something which might be considered off-topic, you may write to me directly at [email protected]

Many thanks

 

[ChuckD]

You can search for his user name to, and send him a PM for more info. Here is his site http://www.xjworld.4wdriver.com/ it does require some fabrication, but you do not have to drill out the knuckles and the TRE's can be found at least here in the USA at any parts store. Spidertrax, can just about give you anything you need.

 

[ROCKWGN]

Where to get DOM and What Size???

Would it be better to purchase 1.25" x .25" wall DOM and put a insert in it, or get 1.25" x 3125" DOM and open it up to .685 and tap with a 3/4" tap so it does not need inserts.

Who knows where to buy DOM at a decent price? I checked a local metal supply and they wanted $120.00 for a 6 foot, 1.25" x .25 wall, ouch...
Sean

 

[Jes]

Re: Where to get DOM and What Size???

Who knows where to buy DOM at a decent price? I checked a local metal supply and they wanted $120.00 for a 6 foot, 1.25" x .25 wall, ouch...
Sean

Good lord that's a rip-off. It should be like four bucks a foot.

Jes

 

[CRASH]

they wanted $120.00 for a 6 foot, 1.25" x .25 wall, ouch...

OUCH! Talk about getting bent over, without lube!

I pay $4 a foot for 1.25 x .25 wall. I like welded inserts, cause left hand 7/8" taps are expensive ($60), and I like welding . Of course, with a tap, you can make a bunch of links without having to buy inserts, and you can make links on the trail if need be.

Kind of a toss up in my mind, but if you are not confident in your welding skillz, get the taps.

CRASH

 

[ChuckD]

I priced, American Metals here in Fresno. It was like $5.50/ft, but I had to but the full lenght. That's probably what happened to your quote. Go back and ask for a random 20'. Then you should be closer to $5/ft. Marmon Keystone is a major round tubing supplier, see if you can get it directly from them. Otherwise Spider trax has a good price for a full 8' link. Gte with someone and split the cost.