Good 4.0 performance ECU?

[xuv-this]

my "friend" is a cop. who said his vehicle is rated at 230hp. it is an xj. that he drives to work in every day. i'm not sure about 95 down, but i know that 96 up have different stuff. call ajax auto and ask them if you don't beleive me.

 

[ndangrd]

we have a 99 at work & although it looks like a base model, it has a 4.0 & it does "seem" faster than mine. when you step on it, it kicks down quicker & harder & just moves out...very puzzling...considering mine is in much better condition...

eric
03 New Beetle Turbo S
99 XJ Classic 4x4

 

[tazz]

The AW4's shift points aren't changable. Only how hard it shifts by the T/B cable adjustement, and you can do that on a stock jeep.

How is that done?
I wanna get mine to shift harder.

 

[Cjmartz2k]

They are talking about the RPM they shift at, not the firmness.

 

[Cjmartz2k]

woops, I just re-read that. Don't drink and type I guess :wstupid:

 

[HodgePodge]

my "friend" is a cop. who said his vehicle is rated at 230hp. it is an xj. that he drives to work in every day. i'm not sure about 95 down, but i know that 96 up have different stuff. call ajax auto and ask them if you don't beleive me.

Yeah. Okay, well, uh, we found, uh, this mouse in a bottle of YOUR BEER, eh. Like we was at a party and, uh, a friend of ours - a COP - had some, and HE PUKED. And he said, uh, come here and get free beer or, uh, he'll press charges!!

 

[phaythe]

actually, i know for a fact that the top speed is over 130 (non-governed). this is where it it gets kinda complicated, but civilian gps is even more accurate than military gps right now, and i've seen the xj do about 135 via gps. with -2mph detracted for variation.

LOLOLOLOLOL HAHAHAHAHA! ROTFLMAO

RIIIIIIIIGHT. Okay. Let me just qualify here -- I have designed GPS navigation system software. Using a ublox GPS reciever, an Intel 486 dev board and raw LCD. I know a good deal about GPS. Military GPS is extremely more advanced than civil GPS. WAY more advanced. (Not to mention GPS sats have a function built into them skew the data they send out to civil recievers...notice how accurate your unit was right after 9/11? GPS is not public...remember that fact.) NASA engineers were using GPS in the '70s to land helicopters unmanned within 3' of a target. In th '70s. Thirty years later I can only imagine what kind of goodies they have lurking above us that is classified...

The specs on Garmin and Magellen units are if you are getting signal from the max number of sattellites the unit can track. At 100+ mph your unit is going to be wildly inaccurate. I would guess your unit can probably measure once per second. A 10 measurement per second reciever is generally in the $200-500 range for just a raw reciever, not a complete GPS unit (this is why aviation and marine grade GPS is so expensive)...and then the software behind it has to be sophisticated enough to do something useful with that many readings.

But anyways, at 100mph, your unit that is possibly accurate to 3' (possibly 1' if you are tracking 8+ sats) is going to be taking a measurement every 150' of travel...at 130mph, 190 feet have passed by every measurement cycle... GPS units are accurate due to interpolation of incoming data. Moving at speed, it's going to have really bad data to give you because it's interpolating based on two positions that are very far apart. I would guess at 100+ mph, your unit might be accurate to around 10-15'. See a problem? And speed is going to be a function of an algorithm built into the unit itself, not the incoming data from GPS reciever...The faster you move, the less accurate the reading is going to be.


Oh, and also...I pray you've got damn sticky tires and a stiff suspension going that fast...and you never hit a pothole or variation in the road surface...I know that by the time I hit my 116mph gov' it's squirrly as hell...I would NOT want to be in an XJ going anything more than 120 without serious suspension mods...

 

[xuv-this]

How is that done?
I wanna get mine to shift harder.

i think it alters the point, too. it just doesn't hesitate as much on a downshift or partial throttle. as i said above, there is a cable on your TB that goes to the trannie. you want to choke a small zip tie around the cable's end, between the cable end stop and the little bracket that clips on the TB. this puts tension on the cable, and fools the traqnnie into thinking that the throttle is farther open than it really is.

RIIIIIIIIGHT. Okay. Let me just qualify here -- I have designed GPS navigation system software. Using a ublox GPS reciever, an Intel 486 dev board and raw LCD. I know a good deal about GPS. Military GPS is extremely more advanced than civil GPS. WAY more advanced. (Not to mention GPS sats have a function built into them skew the data they send out to civil recievers...notice how accurate your unit was right after 9/11? GPS is not public...remember that fact.) NASA engineers were using GPS in the '70s to land helicopters unmanned within 3' of a target. In th '70s. Thirty years later I can only imagine what kind of goodies they have lurking above us that is classified...

like i said, it gets complicated. the "super special secret military stuff" is not what you believe it to be. for example, military "pluggers" can remember more waypoints than civilain receivers. they can store radio codes. they can do a couple of other non-gps pertinent stuff that i don't think i should talk about here, like miles system, etc. but as far as the gps itself goes, they are largely pretty inaccurate at moving stuff. i have tried and tried to pre-program my umz routes around mojave terrain into them for night exercises, but we always ran into stuff. why? military gps is not as accurate. why is that? there are less dedicated satalites. say you wanted to detect/track a stealth fighter. the radar doesn't track well because they deflect the radar off at other angles. so you would put together A SYSTEM of radar bases that are integrated into a single system. the different angles give peices of the picture to create a whole. BTW these can be bought in certain countries. this is like gps. and please don't ask me how i know this, but the military has a stock in every single GPS sattelite over the US and many more for NATO and US around the world. the few sattelites that we use in peacetime are owned by the military. if china tried to all-out attack the US, every single gps sattalite on our half of the world would suddenly be under US military control. and no civilian gps would work. this serves 2 purposes. 1) our military would have the best accuracy. 2) they are coded, so that china wouldn't be able to operate with gps.

The specs on Garmin and Magellen units are if you are getting signal from the max number of sattellites the unit can track. At 100+ mph your unit is going to be wildly inaccurate. I would guess your unit can probably measure once per second. A 10 measurement per second reciever is generally in the $200-500 range for just a raw reciever, not a complete GPS unit (this is why aviation and marine grade GPS is so expensive)...and then the software behind it has to be sophisticated enough to do something useful with that many readings. But anyways, at 100mph, your unit that is possibly accurate to 3' (possibly 1' if you are tracking 8+ sats) is going to be taking a measurement every 150' of travel...at 130mph, 190 feet have passed by every measurement cycle... GPS units are accurate due to interpolation of incoming data. Moving at speed, it's going to have really bad data to give you because it's interpolating based on two positions that are very far apart. I would guess at 100+ mph, your unit might be accurate to around 10-15'. See a problem? And speed is going to be a function of an algorithm built into the unit itself, not the incoming data from GPS reciever...The faster you move, the less accurate the reading is going to be.

you're right about the 15' part and it can be a lot more than that. but it's accelleration you mean, not steady speed. my +/- 2mph is variation for small variences of vehicular speed while cruising, aka minor de/accelleration. how many readings per second does not make much difference. most civilian gps can do many times a second. how many times depends on how many sattelites it's tracking. aviation gps is more expensive because of sattelite tracking, not speed per sec. they're tracking systems are more advanced. kinda like that storm that blocked you're directv dish signal, except they have to be able to fly through stuff like that.

Oh, and also...I pray you've got damn sticky tires and a stiff suspension going that fast...and you never hit a pothole or variation in the road surface...I know that by the time I hit my 116mph gov' it's squirrly as hell...I would NOT want to be in an XJ going anything more than 120 without serious suspension mods...

he he he. i said i have been that fast, i did not say that it was safe. my setup doesn't handle bad, but there are many other vehicles that would handle better/safer than that at those speeds. i VERY SELDOM take it over 85.

 

[phaythe]

like i said, it gets complicated. the "super special secret military stuff" is not what you believe it to be. for example, military "pluggers" can remember more waypoints than civilain receivers. they can store radio codes. they can do a couple of other non-gps pertinent stuff that i don't think i should talk about here, like miles system, etc. but as far as the gps itself goes, they are largely pretty inaccurate at moving stuff. i have tried and tried to pre-program my umz routes around mojave terrain into them for night exercises, but we always ran into stuff. why? military gps is not as accurate. why is that? there are less dedicated satalites. say you wanted to detect/track a stealth fighter. the radar doesn't track well because they deflect the radar off at other angles. so you would put together A SYSTEM of radar bases that are integrated into a single system. the different angles give peices of the picture to create a whole. BTW these can be bought in certain countries. this is like gps. and please don't ask me how i know this, but the military has a stock in every single GPS sattelite over the US and many more for NATO and US around the world. the few sattelites that we use in peacetime are owned by the military. if china tried to all-out attack the US, every single gps sattalite on our half of the world would suddenly be under US military control. and no civilian gps would work. this serves 2 purposes. 1) our military would have the best accuracy. 2) they are coded, so that china wouldn't be able to operate with gps.


you're right about the 15' part and it can be a lot more than that. but it's accelleration you mean, not steady speed. my +/- 2mph is variation for small variences of vehicular speed while cruising, aka minor de/accelleration. how many readings per second does not make much difference. most civilian gps can do many times a second. how many times depends on how many sattelites it's tracking. aviation gps is more expensive because of sattelite tracking, not speed per sec. they're tracking systems are more advanced. kinda like that storm that blocked you're directv dish signal, except they have to be able to fly through stuff like that.

As for "pluggers" that's determined by what is engineered into the device itself, NOT GPS. The unit my team and I designed had an 8 GB hard drive in it...nearly limitless amount of waypoints. We used a "cheap" GPS reciever, as I'm sure these "pluggers" do, as you say, they're not good with movement. It has NOTHING to do with "military GPS not being as accurate" it is PURELY the device in your hands. Modern GPS relies on DGPS ground signals to be accurate as well. If you were in an area that didn't have a DGPS station nearby, you'd be screwed. In town our unit was accurate to about 15'...go south about 30 miles and pick up the signal off a station in NorCal and it was down to under 2' (checked at a USGS marked point). DGPS is exactly what you're talking about with the radar setup. And I don't have to ask you how you know about any of that - it is public information! It is no secret that the GPS system is US owned and operated.

GPS tracks neither speed nor accelleration. These are calculated by the reciever. The number of times per second makes a HUGE difference in accuracy if there is no DGPS signal to be picked up. GPS recievers gives output based on the reading it -just- took and interpolates it with the last few readings as well. If you are moving, those last few readings are worthless, ESPECIALLY if you are moving at 100mph+. This is part of, but not all of the reason that recievers have "warm up" times...(the other part being it takes time to synchronize with sats, setup other variables in the system, etc). And I have never seen a consumer GPS unit that can do more than 1/s. Save for one single in vehilce unit I saw that did 2/s last summer. Beyond 1/s you usually jump to 10/s and those recievers are EXPENSIVE. Just the raw recievers that only spit out GPS data on a serial line are several hundred dollars. No software, nothing. JUST the reciver, not even in a case, just a raw PCB with parts on it. I would love to see one of these "many" units you speak of, I -want- one (granted, I also haven't looked for any since last summer, things may have changed). I just cannot afford one. The number of readings you can pick up in x amount of time is what determines accuracy. Wether you get it from a handful of sats every second, or a huge number of sats every so often...

 

[xuv-this]

unless things have changed in the last year or so, there are only 2 sattilites over the US used by the military, and like 15 civillian. now i'm not saying that the pluggers are bad: obviously it's the lack of sattilites. in the socal desert our accuracy was like 15-30 meters. yeah. that bad. we've talked to members of units from other parts of the US, and the result is pretty much the same. i've never heard of any unit getting under 10m. hell, my squad leader(among others) went out and bought a garmin from the px because they got better accuracy. and yeah, we had the ground base too, but half the time we couldn't track it. hence why it is less accurate. unless you are talking about iraq. i'm willing to bet that they are more accurate over there right now.
and um, most car navigation units can do AT LEAST 2 or 3 times a second. the peice i used in the military would do 3 times a sec. with tracking like 6 sattilites. i could do 80 and have it tell me 60 if it was in a storm or something. tracking 2 sattilites. also, i know it was accurate because i've ran with people who said their speedo was over 130, and the gps was less than 5 mh off in good conditions at constant speed. that is unless a honda, a newer chevy something, and other vehicles i forgot were all off by the SAME SPEED also as the GPS.

 

[phaythe]

LoL...this is obviously pointless as you aren't an engineer of any sort who can understand how the system actually works. These "pluggers" were using antiquated technology, it had nothing to do with the GPS system itself. The military can use any damn sat its equipment can see. BUT, the equipment has to be able to see it. There is no such thing as a military sat vs. a civilian sat when it comes to GPS. Period. They are all owned by the US Department of Defense. In fact, here these pages will do you some good to read:

http://www.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/index_e/geodesy_e/gps-02-04_e.html
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gps.htm

And I'm serious. Give me model numbers. I want one of these magical recievers, I need something that can give me that kind of data so I can do road mapping of areas where I live that don't show up on USGS maps.

 

[jpdriver1]

hey Doc --- will the Power Control Module work with the renix ecu's?

 

[xuv-this]

LoL...this is obviously pointless as you aren't an engineer of any sort who can understand how the system actually works. These "pluggers" were using antiquated technology, it had nothing to do with the GPS system itself. The military can use any damn sat its equipment can see. BUT, the equipment has to be able to see it. There is no such thing as a military sat vs. a civilian sat when it comes to GPS. Period. They are all owned by the US Department of Defense. In fact, here these pages will do you some good to read:

http://www.geod.nrcan.gc.ca/index_e/geodesy_e/gps-02-04_e.html
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gps.htm

And I'm serious. Give me model numbers. I want one of these magical recievers, I need something that can give me that kind of data so I can do road mapping of areas where I live that don't show up on USGS maps.

no, they cannot "track whatever they want to" the military sattalites have special coding so others cannot use our gps. furthermore, i never said that i was an engineer...but i do know what i'm talking about here(it's not like it was my job or anything...):lecture: those same sattilites were tied into the miles system. the "oc's" could literally call in a kill and the sattalite would kill the vehicle(s) part of the dedicated gps system. i don't want to say much more about this, but i will say that they do not share the same sattilites.

 

[Cjmartz2k]

wow, this thread seriously got hyjacked :wierd:

 

[xuv-this]

hey Doc --- will the Power Control Module work with the renix ecu's?

sorry this got so out of hand guy. i did not mean to start a fight. but i will attempt to put it back on track. the renix ecu's have no "bolt on" chips that i am aware of...UNLESS you wanted to get a mopar 4.2 multi port fuel injection conversion kit just for the puter and find a way to put it on. they can be programmed with a laptop.

 

[tazz]

I see that Edge just came out with a "Trail Jammer performance kit for 1997-2004 4.0L's. Looks like a good kit! I know my step Father has a Edge Juice box on his truck and it work's great!
Go here to look at it.
http://www.edgeproducts.com/

 

[JeepSpeed]

I see that Edge just came out with a "Trail Jammer performance kit for 1997-2004 4.0L's. Looks like a good kit! I know my step Father has a Edge Juice box on his truck and it work's great!
Go here to look at it.
http://www.edgeproducts.com/

You could get the same effect for cheaper by doing it yourself. Also, it says 20% gain in hp. Yeah, okay. You'll get 38hp at the flywheel. There's even a dyno sheet right below that claim that shows maybe 15rwhp gain.

 

[AmnDay]

I have old police xj with the extended idle column shift speedo hd242 all the good stuff 100% bone stock with 3.55 gears i could leave two black 10 in wide marks about five feet long and out run other xj with light mods, the computer that came stock in the military/police version are not mopar they were built by a sub company of what is now called venom performance.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

I think 130 is stretching it - 115-120 is closer to reality. The Corsicas that they used wouldn't even hit 130, and they're a whole lot more aerodynamic than an XJ...

Well, the factory limiter is 118mph so... the 120 number sounds about right. And given the "Aero" characteristics of an XJ, 118 is way faster than you should go.

That being said, I have hit the limiter several times is the course of tuning the supercharger...

 

[hubs97xj]

Check the post dates...