dieselenthusiast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Zuni Mountains, New Mexico
Or, buy a good quality radiator like the FFD.
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CSF 3 Row Radiator the best way to go?
- Thread starter BlueCuda
- Start date
Or, buy a good quality radiator like the FFD.
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
Yeah. The stock ones are shit. Even if they cool ok they still have plastic tanks.
- Location
- Maurertown,Va.
Try this ...Vista-Pro #436020
At Summit Racing, over $300 but its all metal ,,copper & brass.2 core. Less than a Griffin....
At Summit Racing, over $300 but its all metal ,,copper & brass.2 core. Less than a Griffin....
dieselenthusiast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Zuni Mountains, New Mexico
The FFD has a lifetime warranty. Just sayin' 
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
The FFD has a lifetime warranty. Just sayin'
So does auto zone brake pads. Doesn't mean the quality is there. Not saying FFD is bad. I know nothing about them but a good warranty isn't everything.
dieselenthusiast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Zuni Mountains, New Mexico
The FFD is a great radiator that you only have to pay for once. The warranty alone would be worth it considering the failure rate of Champion, CFM, etc. Typically a company doesn’t put a lifetime warranty on a product if they didn’t think their product was good.
Ben824
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Woodstock, GA
While I don't argue that FFD makes a fabulous radiator to a level much above CFM or clearly Champion (of which I have ran both), it is a little overzealous to say that "if a product has a lifetime warranty then that means it is good." I can guarantee that is not true. More often in the Automotive industry this is even more inaccurate. My Duralast power steering pump has a lifetime warranty and I am on my third one so far. On my second Duralast water pump. Yes you could say then that is just because Duralast is a bad brand. But there are many bargain autoparts that have lifetime warranties since they build them cheap and sell them high but still at a competitive rate where they still made money even if the part come back two or three times.
Now high end, high performance, high quality parts that carry a lifetime warranty like the FFD radiator I would be more willing to trust it since they clearly think highly of their product to have such a substantial price. But again that can be debunked. I have a Banks header, Banks being a well known and respected brand. The header came with a lifetime no crack guarantee. I have been through 8 headers and 2 redesigns. Yes I fixed EVERYTHING that can lead to a cracked header and yet it still cracked.
So moral of my story, a lifetime guarantee or lifetime warranty does NOT mean the product is good. Product history, user experience, and brand reputation mean more than a simple written guarantee.
On another note, I am running a Champion 2 core radiator that I put in summer 2011 and so far so good! Keeping my fingers crossed on this one! I was having overheating issues from my 7 year old leaking CSF 3 core so I swapped it out, then the water pump went bad right after and I figured I would swap out the fan clutch at the same time since it was 200K+ miles and 14 years old. I still have overheating issues but that is only in the middle of the summer in near 100 degree weather here in the hot humid south. The fan clutch seems to have gone bad too, another quality built lifetime warranty Duralast product, because I found a bunch of clear oil substance around the fan. I am going to ditch the mechanical fan altogether and go electric. Hopefully that is it but I will report back once I get my fan situation sorted out.
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
Yup and people replace a lot of radiators these days.
Why not go with an all brass and copper one? They aren't much more expensive.
I got 220kish miles out of my last one, and I have a dealership connection so the price was right.
Just adding my input... I went thru 2 Champion Radiators in ~ 1 year... both leaked where the tanks and fins are 'welded' together.
Replaced the last Champion w/ an FFD radiator and the FFD appears to be a better built unit. Welds are cleaner, things just look and feel better than either of the Champion Radiators I had. Only been running the FFD for ~ 1 month so time will tell how well it holds up. I think the FFD radiator is quite competitive price-wise if you're only purchasing the radiator.
Replaced the last Champion w/ an FFD radiator and the FFD appears to be a better built unit. Welds are cleaner, things just look and feel better than either of the Champion Radiators I had. Only been running the FFD for ~ 1 month so time will tell how well it holds up. I think the FFD radiator is quite competitive price-wise if you're only purchasing the radiator.
DrMoab
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The Utah Backwater
Where were all you dissatisfied champion owners two years ago when I bought mine?
dieselenthusiast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Zuni Mountains, New Mexico
X2. The FFD is very competitive plus a lifetime warranty. I've only had mine for 9 months so far, but it's been a great radiator. The guy who I bought my FFD from also sells Champion, and he said you can't compare the two.
I bought it around the same time, but didn't install it until this past summer due to my stock radiator still working and needing to cut and reweld(JB ahem) the mech fan's inner shroud tab in order to work with the 2nd e-fan on the Champion. Mine had a pin-hole leak on the inside edge of both end tanks on the upper half(so two holes). A 1/2 bottle of bars leak fixed one hole, but not the other, so I'll try the 2nd half(I know it's not a proper fix, and can clog/restrict other passages, but if it does the job. . .). Anyhow, with the pinhole leak, the vacuum no longer works to suck fluid out of the res, so I've had to add a few ounces every week. Oh sucky welders. . .
dieselenthusiast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Zuni Mountains, New Mexico
According to FFD:
"Our radiators are not built and have nothing to do with Champion, and if you put the two together and dissected them, you would see that our quality is much beefier and our welds are much stronger. We no longer build our production radiators ourselves, just our one off custom radiators, so we do outsource them over seas as the cost factor and the limited radiators that we do sell are just not worth it for us, as when we had to cut our work force two years ago, we started outsourcing our radiators. This does not mean that our radiators are run of the mill, like the rest of the $50 radiators that you see floating around, our radiators are built in the largest radiator factory in the world, to our exact specs. And this factory also builds radiators for some of the top names in this industry. We pride ourselves on building fan systems, and every extreme system that is ordered, is hand built right here, by us, as they are ordered, as we are about cooling fans and fan control systems, as well as a few specialty parts. By outsourcing the radiators, we are able to keep our costs down to a price that is 1/3 of what the big companies are pricing. And yes, we do pressure test our radiators as they come in. We also, bore scope our cores to make sure they are clear of any debris or bent tubes. Our warranty speaks for itself. If our radiators were cheap garbage, with no quality control, our warranty of free replacement no questions asked, would put us out of business quickly."
Here’s what my eBay seller said, "def not a champion because we also sell champion rads to walk in customers that need a cheap rad fast, the difference is night and day, only thing champion has going for it is it has rads for every type car out there where ffd is pretty much limited to there certain cars and trucks."
I would have to look at the two in person to make a call I guess. From the pics I would be a little gun shy. Especially after they say they do outsource overseas. I don't think there is more than one plant in china spitting out radiators that look exactly alike...exactly alike.
This is just my opinion. After this champion radiator I sure as heck wouldn't jump out and buy one that looked exactly the same but that's just me.
FFD
CHAMPION
same appearance
Same renix era sensor provision, even though both claim to only fit 91+
Same incorrect transmission lines
I am also willing to bet the lower trans lines hit the body on the ffd just like the champion.
In the picture the drain appears to be different, I am sure that is just a flavor of the month lowest bidder part and appearance may vary.
This is just my opinion. After this champion radiator I sure as heck wouldn't jump out and buy one that looked exactly the same but that's just me.
FFD
CHAMPION
same appearance
Same renix era sensor provision, even though both claim to only fit 91+
Same incorrect transmission lines
I am also willing to bet the lower trans lines hit the body on the ffd just like the champion.
In the picture the drain appears to be different, I am sure that is just a flavor of the month lowest bidder part and appearance may vary.
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dieselenthusiast
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Zuni Mountains, New Mexico
BlueCuda, I can appreciate your skepticism, but it's been confirmed that the FFD and Champion are two different radiators. Others who have seen them side-by-side also claim that there is a difference in the quality and thickness of the welds. The FFD also has thicker walled side tanks.
I had my old Champion side by side w my FFD & in my experience & opinion they are NOT the same. Like I mentioned above, the FFD has cleaner welds & all the fittings are nicer/better. Of course only time will tell how we'll it holds up, but I don't think they even close in quality.
Online Pics can be deceiving!!
Online Pics can be deceiving!!
LYKOS
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Bent Mountain Va
My XJ is my DD and I suffered the common overheating due to stupidity and neglect issue that plagues these Jeeps.
I immediately replaced the t-stat, housing, temp sensor, water pump and radiator with stock parts AND picked up a Android app that allows me to read the temp as the ECM sees it.
I went back to running about as cool as I had been on the dash gauge but was running hot according to the ECM. I may have been running that hot all along, I'll never know.
I installed a CSF three row and noticed an immediate 10* drop in temp. I think I installed that six months ago... So far I don't think I've seen the temp go above 220*.
No leaks, no problems at all.
I installed a Dirtbound Triple Threat kit this weekend. Same temps, more seat of the pants power, hopefully MPGs will go up a tad.
I immediately replaced the t-stat, housing, temp sensor, water pump and radiator with stock parts AND picked up a Android app that allows me to read the temp as the ECM sees it.
I went back to running about as cool as I had been on the dash gauge but was running hot according to the ECM. I may have been running that hot all along, I'll never know.
I installed a CSF three row and noticed an immediate 10* drop in temp. I think I installed that six months ago... So far I don't think I've seen the temp go above 220*.
No leaks, no problems at all.
I installed a Dirtbound Triple Threat kit this weekend. Same temps, more seat of the pants power, hopefully MPGs will go up a tad.
