Can't even get the oil filter adapter T60 wrench onto the bolt.

[Ecomike]

No, some people actually save money by working on cars themselves. And usually do a better job because its their vehicle.

I have to agree with that. I usually broke even at best on some of my early auto repairs in the old days, as I had to buy parts and tools at first, but the tools became an asset, a valuable asset, tools that in most cases generated income from field engineering work I did later on. I usually saved a bunch of money the second time around. You also get to select better parts than a shop might use!!!!

I started doing my own work not to save money, but to fix it right and fix it right the first time, with out leaving other stuff busted during the repairs, like so many repair shop people do. So many repair outfits are either outright crooks, and / or incompetent, sloppy, absentminded, ..... or just don't know enough about every vehicle out there (way too many) to do the job right the first time and not brake something else (and charge outrageous rates for it), or they charge so much for a simple repair that a complex one costs more than the vehicle is worth.

When I replace a battery, I do it myself, not to save money (the store will swap it for free), I do it to make sure it is done right!!! To make sure some green kid wet behind the ears does not over or under tighten the clamp!!!

The more complex the repair, the more chances they have for a green helper to do some perceived simple step in a bigger more complex job, that gets screwed up and goes undetected until 100 miles down the road on a Saturday night in the middle of nowhere (Peter's Principle). That means added down time returning the vehicle, paying for a rental car, frustration and so on. And down time and attorney costs to sue them when they really pull a boner, LOL.

One thing that has been left out of the entire discussion here is DIAGNOSTICS!!!! Often the key issue!!!!!! Way too many repairs are the wrong repair!!!!!! They decide X is bad, replace it, and then sorry that was not it, it must be such and such that is bad. Then after 4 or 5 of those trips, and a few weeks with out the vehicle, they say we don't know what it is and say "take it to a stealership", LOL. Stealership says you need a new car, LOL!!!

Then XXXXX$$$$$s later you have no money, credit is all used up and you still don't have a working vehicle.Hasta

Me, I have solved enough Renix jeep problems, I can almost work on them blindfolded now and diagnose a problem over the blogosphere sight unseen now. I just bought a jeep for $500, that will cost me about 1 afternoon, about $100 in parts to have in tip top shape and when something goes bump in the night on it, I will not only know what is, and how to fix, I will probably have the parts on hand too, LOL!!!arty:

Long story short, like most of the inhabitants of , I do not like being dependent on others for much, except the local grocery store. Most of the guys here can also hunt their food too, LOL.:chef:, but I still do my grub hunting at Kroger, LOL.

 

[kastein]

No, some people actually save money by working on cars themselves. And usually do a better job because its their vehicle.

I know quite a few white collar people who work on their own cars.

first part - agree, I did. I blew a brake line a few months after I got my first XJ, stuffed it into a guardrail, ripped up a fender, header panel, grille, corner markers, bumper, etc. I bought all the tools, an air compressor, HVLP spraygun, paint, and all the parts for under a thousand dollars, the cheapest quote I got on fixing it was 1700. Finished it up in a weekend.

I am white collar (well, theoretically) and know of something like five other electrical engineers in the NAC... all of them fix their own jeeps, trucks, trailers, hell most of them do their own engine builds, suspension/cage fabrication, etc too. Hell most of them think I'm the dumbass who has no idea what he's doing.

 

[souske]

Who owns who?

 

[Talyn]

I started doing my own work not to save money, but to fix it right and fix it right the first time, with out leaving other stuff busted during the repairs, like so many repair shop people do. So many repair outfits are either outright crooks, and / or incompetent, sloppy, absentminded, ..... or just don't know enough about every vehicle out there (way too many) to do the job right the first time and not brake something else (and charge outrageous rates for it), or they charge so much for a simple repair that a complex one costs more than the vehicle is worth.

x2. I started out doing my own repairs because I was sick of sloppy work, not having the problem fixed correctly the first time and being over charged for it. I just had one example of crappy work come into the machine shop this evening (part time job). They were going to take their car on a trip to Florida and they wanted the timing belt changed, oil changed, air filter, and general check over. I first checked the oil and it was a bit low. I jacked the car up and notice some oil on the under carriage.. didn't think much of it, minor oil leak some place. Once on jack stands I noticed there was a puddle under of oil under the car. It was coming from the oil filter. The quick lube place didn't tighten the oil filter down enough. It was so lose I was able to spin it off with my thumb only (I kid you not). I am amazed that it hadn't dumped all of its oil. Oh.. and they paid for that shoddy work. Luckily they were smart enough to bring it in for a check up before they left for Florida. I am quite certain they wouldn't have made it otherwise.

When I replace a battery, I do it myself, not to save money (the store will swap it for free), I do it to make sure it is done right!!! To make sure some green kid wet behind the ears does not over or under tighten the clamp!!!

When I take my vehicles for alignment and tire work (which I don't have the machines to do) I have to watch them like a hawk. I had to correct one guy on how to use a torque wrench... he didn't stop turning once it clicked.

One thing that has been left out of the entire discussion here is DIAGNOSTICS!!!! Often the key issue!!!!!! Way too many repairs are the wrong repair!!!!!!

Too many parts re placers, not enough real mechanics.

 

[DrMoab]

Paid a shop $40 to put two wheel studs in my wife's Subaru today.

I could have done it for $10 but its 15* and I hate working on that car

I still feel pretty dirty.

 

[peuglow]

In still in the first phase of this process. Learning my way around and gathering a supply of tools. I do have a background in some finish carpentry, washer/dryer repairs, etc.

While this current project I'm on is getting frustrating (it's holding up my dd) I love all the knowledge I'm absorbing.

And I have my bachelors.

 

[Vanimal]

Paid a shop $40 to put two wheel studs in my wife's Subaru today.

I could have done it for $10 but its 15* and I hate working on that car

I still feel pretty dirty.

every time i pay for labor, it backfires. last time i was having my tires balanced and i had a coupon for an oil change that worked out the same price as doing it myself, so i said what the hell. i get it back and the oil pressure is pegged when driving, so i pop the hood and they had the wrong filter on there, it was some tiny thing.

 

[ChiXJeff]

Finding a good mechanic these days seems to be getting more and more difficult.

I got a recommendation for a local shop some 5 years ago, had them do a short notice brake job on my CTD. Found out a couple of months later they'd cross-threaded 2 lugnuts and just hammered them down with an air wrench. I sheared the studs off when I had to take the wheel off.

And what I thought was a good mechanic.... maybe wasn't so much. It looks like he may not have torqued down the pressure plate when I had him replace the clutch in my CTD. He's been out of business for the last year.

 

[Rush Power Systems]

EcoMike,
Your story reminds me of the story of the repairman charging $100 to kick the side of the washing machine to get it working again. $100 for 5 minutes of work? Well, he replied, it really took 5 mins. and 20 years to know to do that. I like learning new things, but do not fool myself for a second that I am saving money. I would launch a $100,000/year producing website in the time it will take to "restore" this XJ over the next few months. But, like you said, it's a good feeling to learn how cars work. My only point is that this learning this stuff is very hard, and that's why almost no one on the planet knows how to do it.

Crimson,
Great story about your first O2. And good work noting that it took you 5 straight days of research and 8 hours to get it replaced. People ALL forget that. All they can see is the present, where "it takes me 48 seconds to remove/replace an O2 sensor". Yea, no shit, if you've done it 26 times.

Mudd,
I didn't need your tool b/c someone else offered to mail me their bit. It did not make sense to spend $25 (shipped) on a large welded tool, and waste your time, and have it take longer, when I could have someone mail me their existing bit the very next day for $1? Thanks again for the offer.

Rush,
Troll? Who is the one trolling all my threads, adding nothing, and harassing and stalking me? Sorry your ego was so offended I didn't want to buy your 1-off homemade headlight harness that wasn't even prototyped yet. I told you that, as a beginner, I preferred to pay $20 more for a road-tested commercial product with widespread adoption and commercial documentation (ARB, RJM, etc), and not just a box of undocumented cables and some email on how to install it. That's way over my head. No offense, so please get over it, and I will ask you yet again to leave me alone. If you don't like my threads, no one is forcing you to read them. Thank you.

Nice edit, so you no longer want me to FOAD right? Since we are all happy now let’s get some things straight. My employees and I hang out in the forums when we have time and help out with electrical. one of my guys is in to BMW’s so no one is stalking you, but you make it very clear that you are a troll, although most of that is under you name onthefence, yes that is you as well:

http://www.cherokeetalk.com/forum/f20/cant-even-get-oil-filter-adapter-t60-wrench-onto-bolt-20663/

So myself and my guys are more than happy to avoid you, just don’t come asking for electrical help, and I have seen your write-ups, you need help and you don’t even know it.

Now on the headlight harness, yes you are the catalyst for that, but here is the rest of the story. To be honest, you were making such a big deal out of something so simple that I honestly thought you were mentally slow. You were fussing and fretting over the choices, which is what you seem to do on everything. You were looking at spending $80 to $100 for one that was not designed for the XJ. So I tried to do you a favor and offered to build you one, never planned adding it to a product line, just doing you a favor.

I would build you a complete plug and play harness for $50 and we would make about $10 at that price, since then we have sold over 20 of them, so yes there is a market for it. Let me try to explain how simple the harness was and how stupid you looked, let’s say you and your buddy wanted to get a burger, he tells you have them put the fries in the burger, and you say “I don’t know, that is a 1 of, it has never been tested, we can’t handle anything that could go wrong” it really is that simple. In fact you know why we never offered them? To be honest, and no offence to people who have purchased them, I really did not think people would pay money for something so simple to build, and you made it sound like it was rocket science.

But rather than say thanks for the offer, you turned into a complete A-hole and started attacking me and my company to the point that everyone involved started slamming you. And after what a jerk you were / are you are, I showed the discussion to my guys, my BMW guy said “yes he is a troll, people avoid him on sites like Bimmerforums and others, his is into Jeeps no uh? Have fun with that”. So yea when you bad mouth me and my company I am going to point out who you are.

So if you want experts to help you when when you don’t know what you are doing, play nice on the net. State your problem, say thank you for the advice, don’t start bitching about how it is not a DIY and how Jeeps suck and especially don’t attack the person helping you, and stop making mountains out of mole hills. then you will not be a troll, till then you are what you post. So it is great if you want to learn, just be a better student.

 

[rockclimber]

:doh: