Build the Dana 30 or find a 44?

[cal]

The stock carrier will flex, allow the ring gear to deflect and initiate ring gear failure.

.. thats more or less what I have to say on that matter.

 

[Goatman]

I have built up a D-30, my old 30 has served me well on 35's but its just a matter of time.

The new axle has;

Longfield Superaxle shafts
Yukon R&P 4.88's
Aussie Locker
RuffStuff cover
Home made truss out of 2"x4"x3/16" box.

I hope to get it installed in the next week or so. Here is a pic, all work, including the gear set-up was done by me.

Are you going to reinforce the inner C's? I would, it would finish off a nicely done axle. Hate to do all that and then bend a C.

 

[REVROK]

The stock carrier will flex, allow the ring gear to deflect and initiate ring gear failure.

.. thats more or less what I have to say on that matter.

Which is already the weak point of the 30... Okay- Full carrier it is then. Thanks... I may do the lunchbox as a temporary measure (I need to wheel), but will go ARB asap. I really cannot do another Detroit, that incident left a really bad taste.

 

[Goatman]

why not run the thick gears for the D30 VS. a larger carrier? wouldnt this make them stronger and take a bite out of the slippin gears problem from the D30? ive been debating on this also... i bout a 04 WJ for the motor (for a 2000 0331 head) and kept the knuckles and all for my XJ... not installed yet but theres a dang D44 on CL built ready for a XJ for $900 with gears, lockers, and all... i actually come across them often on there as alot of people swap to D60's... ive just been debating on selling my D30 and stuff with it and going D44... but seems like the killer between the 2 is the ring and pinion... which i would think thick gears would take care of... my plans are 3.5 to 4.5 of lift and 37's but i dont want to go wide... and my XJ's gutted and chopped so less weight to strain the axles... guess what im asking is wouldnt Thick gears be stronger and possibly even take care of gear slip issue in a D30?

A D30 in any configuration won't last on 37's, even a D44 can be questionable for 37's because of the 19 spline stubs and locking hubs.

The thicker gears won't do much, if anything. Tooth strength would be the same, and carrier/housing deflection wouldn't change due to a thicker ring gear. I wouldn't depend on it being stronger overall with the thick gear.

 

[cal]

Which is already the weak point of the 30... Okay- Full carrier it is then. Thanks... I may do the lunchbox as a temporary measure (I need to wheel), but will go ARB asap. I really cannot do another Detroit, that incident left a really bad taste.

I can understand that. I ran ARB's for a long time, currently have detroits but if I were to blow one may replace them with ARB's.

 

[xjtrailrider]

Unfortunately with the Aussie, I'm running a stock carrier. This is were I would change things if i could go back 6 months and $250 ago. Nothing wrong with the Aussie but I have doubts about the carrier.

I might do the "C"s just not sure yet. I'm still a couple of weeks away from starting the swap and thats a easy job to do in a hurry.

 

[cal]

You can always sell the aussie and low gear carrier to get most of your cash back later, too.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

id think that a thirty will hold up nicely to bigger tires, gears and a locker as long as you truss it well and use a solid cover like ruffstuff to make the housing more solid, and keep from the skinny pedal ...our buddy on here rob wheels his trussed 30 with stock shafts, 4.56s and lockright and 37's and beats the piss out of it most weekends of the year up at the con or fordyce. still holding strong. that is what leads me to thinking a good cover and a truss . i wouldnt bother with wj knuckles personally but if you can get em cheap as hell...

 

[Jes]

...our buddy on here rob wheels his trussed 30 with stock shafts, 4.56s and lockright and 37's and beats the piss out of it most weekends of the year up at the con or fordyce...

I guess your idea of "beats the piss out of it" is different than mine.

 

[EndlessMtnFab]

A good cover does indeed add to the rigidity of the housing.



I'm waiting to see what Ballistic introduces for their new "ultimate balljoint"



Eventually ... the weak point is going to move somewhere else. But I guess I'd rather break a R&P or ujoint, as opposed to a balljoint. I would still be able to drive home with a dead R&P or ujoint.



Joe

 

[RCman]

I guess your idea of "beats the piss out of it" is different than mine.

I was thinking the same thing.

Eventually ... the weak point is going to move somewhere else. But I guess I'd rather break a R&P or ujoint, as opposed to a balljoint. I would still be able to drive home with a dead R&P or ujoint.

Joe

That is the game you play with almost any axle, "move the weak point around". I think I'd have to disagree with you on the "rather blow a R&P than a ball joint". A ball joint (assuming it doesn't take out the knuckle or C) is a pretty simple replacement. Sure, it does take some time and can get annoying at 11pm at night on the side of a hill, but it is better and cheaper than a R&P breakage. Especially for some of these guys that don't gear there own stuff (nothing wrong with that).

 

[EndlessMtnFab]

I think I'd have to disagree with you on the "rather blow a R&P than a ball joint". A ball joint (assuming it doesn't take out the knuckle or C) is a pretty simple replacement. Sure, it does take some time and can get annoying at 11pm at night on the side of a hill, but it is better and cheaper than a R&P breakage. Especially for some of these guys that don't gear there own stuff (nothing wrong with that).

See ... my logic is different. Most times that I've seen .... a grenaded balljoint leads to inner yoke or knuckle damage. And that REALLY stops you in a hurry. I'd rather not have to replace the balljoint/knuckle/etc at 11 pm on the side of the hill. Not everyone remembers to carry spare balljoints around either. I don't trailer my Jeep ... so I want to make sure it gets home safely and smoothly. So if I blew the R&P ... i unlock the hub and go home. If I destroy the shaft ... I pull it out and stuff the tube with a rag and go home.



Nothing wrong with your opinion -- I was just clarifying mine better because you forced me to. :cheers:

 

[cal]

I'm with Joe here. When I'm stuck on the trail at 11pm on Sunday night, tired, cold, hungry, and I have to be at work 200 miles away at 6 this next morning.. I would happily pay the cost of gears+install to not be sitting there trying to hammer my spare balljoints in.

 

[cal]

...our buddy on here rob wheels his trussed 30 with stock shafts, 4.56s and lockright and 37's and beats the piss out of it most weekends of the year up at the con or fordyce. still holding strong.

It sounds like Rob has a pretty big rig. He needs to get it off of the kiddy trails.

 

[EndlessMtnFab]

I'm with Joe here. When I'm stuck on the trail at 11pm on Sunday night, tired, cold, hungry, and I have to be at work 200 miles away at 6 this next morning.. I would happily pay the cost of gears+install to not be sitting there trying to hammer my spare balljoints in.

Please ... do not agree with me. I'd rather be the odd man out. :rattle:



:roll:

 

[cal]

Please ... do not agree with me. I'd rather be the odd man out. :rattle:

I think the locals would tell you agreeing with me is odd by itself.

 

[RCman]

See ... my logic is different. Most times that I've seen .... a grenaded balljoint leads to inner yoke or knuckle damage. And that REALLY stops you in a hurry. I'd rather not have to replace the balljoint/knuckle/etc at 11 pm on the side of the hill. Not everyone remembers to carry spare balljoints around either. I don't trailer my Jeep ... so I want to make sure it gets home safely and smoothly. So if I blew the R&P ... i unlock the hub and go home. If I destroy the shaft ... I pull it out and stuff the tube with a rag and go home.

I'm with Joe here. When I'm stuck on the trail at 11pm on Sunday night, tired, cold, hungry, and I have to be at work 200 miles away at 6 this next morning.. I would happily pay the cost of gears+install to not be sitting there trying to hammer my spare balljoints in.

You both make good points. There are a lot of "ifs" in the above scenarios. However, if a knuckle or C is damaged, I'd have to agree with you.
I don't know about you, but most of the guys I wheel with carry spare "consumables" like u-joints, balljoints, shafts, hubs, etc.
Even if someone didn't have the part, I'd gladly toss mine that way or a buddy would assuming we liked ya. :laugh3:


Cal, I've seen your axle pop up in numerous threads, but I don't think the question has been asked (or I missed it). Would you drop that kinda coin on a D30 again?

Nothing wrong with your opinion -- I was just clarifying mine better because you forced me to. :cheers:

I play nice. :cheers:

 

[cal]

Cal, I've seen your axle pop up in numerous threads, but I don't think the question has been asked (or I missed it). Would you drop that kinda coin on a D30 again?

It's been asked, but its not the right question to ask.

The question is would have spent that coin on a D30 the first time. I probably would not have.

I don't talk about it much, but I was in the right place at the right time with the right skillset to do somebody important a very specific favor, and you would probably cry if you knew how little money was invested into that XJ. Factoring in selling off the previous generation of parts, its entirely possible I made a profit on that build.


But looking back in retrospect.. would I have put up that kind of coin to have the reliability that I did? Yes. I think I would.

I beat the living snot out of that rig. Not only that, I let anyone who wanted to get behind the wheel beat the snot out of it while I watched. I bent an inner C once, accidently jumping over the hood of a YJ.. and I went through 4 sets of balljoints (one doesnt count, a local shop put in cheap chinease parts when they straitened the C).

Periodically when i was bound up in reverse and on the throttle I would think about the front ring gear, but I can't say that I ever actually felt concerned enough to take my foot off of the gas.

Its entirely likely that 30/44 setup is stronger than the 44/60 that I have now.

 

[Goatman]

How often has a balljoint failed to the point that it came apart? Unless you blew an axle joint, then drove on it and seperated the ball joint. I've talked to a lot of desert racers about this, and while they may change ball joints somewhat regularly, the don't fail during a race, they just get loose.

It's rare that you couldn't get home on a broken ring and pinion, most of the time a few teeth chip and you might not even know it's broken unless you take it apart. Or, you strip teeth off and it makes a bunch of noise but you can still drive it. Worse case is to pull the shafts so the diff doesn't turn and you're still in 2wd. Much better than exploding an axle joint or shaft yokes and then busting a knuckle or popping off the ball joints. Some of the worst breaks we've dealt with on the trail were busted knuckles due to broken axle joints. Once the yokes are broken, they can catch against each other and push the knuckle right off, either breaking it or breaking the balljoints. If you ever break a front axle joint, STOP immediately. BTW, we've had broken knuckles due to broken axle joints on D30's, D44's, and D60's.

 

[cal]

How often has a balljoint failed to the point that it came apart?

I've wondered that too, but it seems unlikely. I had one get loose enough that it caused me some steering problems, but I was able to get home on it.

The only time I ever came home on a flatbed was 'stupid' failures. A distributor drive shaft broke once and I lost oil pressure, a wiring harness rubbed raw and I lost electrical, etc.