Axle Pros, please help....

[ZachMan]

Ok, I have a built HP D44 w/ cast radius arm mounts. I plan to retube w/ 1/2" thick tubes.

Since I am retubing, should I go ahead and put D60 outters on? I am a real newb to building axles so please just bare with me. The axle has Hysteer arms, Warn hubs, and Warn shafts, and its 5 on 5 1/2, which almost everything will have to go so I am not sure about adding 60 outters or not (Plus the $$ factor). What all would be involved on a 78ish HP Ford D44 to add D60 outters to new tubes?

Also I want my tires to fit under the rig pretty nicely,so I can live with 65" wms to wms (stock 67"?), but I was planning on running 5.5" bs wheels to tuck in more. I was told even with 17" wheels I can't do it because of my hysteer arms. Is this true?

I was also told even at 65" I will have to get custom cut to length shafts. So what length shorter than 67"s is avalible? If nothing how much more usually to get shafts made?

Thanks

Last edited by XJ4THEKICKIN

 

[Ghost]

I'm no pro but some on here have cut the ford front down to take Grand Wagonere shafts. Which is about 60" IIRC. That is what I want to do.

 

[ZachMan]

I'm no pro but some on here have cut the ford front down to take Grand Wagonere shafts. Which is about 60" IIRC. That is what I want to do.

Crap for got all about the Waggys. I would how ever like to be wider than 60", because its a DD and it will have close to 8" of lift so wider is better.

Wonder how much more stable I will feel with 5"+ of extra width?

 

[Willis]

First thing, go onto Warn's site (warn.com) and look at their axle shaft availability chart. On there will be your axle shaft lengths. Take your width, and start subtracting the difference between your shafts and some of the shafts on their chart. You may find that with a combination of shafts from different vehicles will give you a different axle width. Here's an example:

Your shafts should be 33.91" and 18.91", and your wms-wms should be around 66". If you use a long side from an International that is 32.91", and a short side from a Waggy that is 15.8" (there are 2 different long sides and short sides for the Waggys), that is a difference of 4.11" [(33.91-32.91)+(18.91-15.8)] giving you a wms-wms measurement of 61.89". You'd just need your current D44 narrowed (or re-tubed 1" narrower on the passenger side, and 3.11" on the drivers side). Go and play with numbers some. Also, use other axle charts like the one from Superior site because they offer more shafts like Dodge shafts.

Don't worry about the 60 outers. The bonus for those are the 35 spline shafts (inner and outer shafts) and larger u-joints. You can't upgrade to 35 spline shafts on the D44 carrier, so it's not much benefit. About the only thing you could do, would be to buy a super 44 carrier (33 spline) and have some 35 spline D60 inner shafts cut down to 33 spline. A built D44 will hold up well with 37s (which most of us don't go over anyways).

Lastly, why retube your 44. Even if it's built, go buy a HP D44 from a 77 or earlier and swap your 'built' parts. Around here they go for $250 or less. I got mine for $150, but then had to swap discs onto it (cause it was off of a 74). If you want a bare housing (no knuckles, shafts, or gears), I could probably get one shipped to you for less than $300 (depends what the yard wants, maybe closer to $200). There is a pile a D44s (even early bronco D44s) sitting in a junk yard if you don't have any near you. Just an option.

Steve

 

[ZachMan]

Lastly, why retube your 44. Even if it's built, go buy a HP D44 from a 77 or earlier and swap your 'built' parts. Around here they go for $250 or less. I got mine for $150, but then had to swap discs onto it (cause it was off of a 74). If you want a bare housing (no knuckles, shafts, or gears), I could probably get one shipped to you for less than $300 (depends what the yard wants, maybe closer to $200). There is a pile a D44s (even early bronco D44s) sitting in a junk yard if you don't have any near you. Just an option.

Steve

Thanks a ton!

But, Why go pay $250 for another front D44? When for $150-$200 I can get mine retubed with 1/2" tubes and to whatever length, plus no swaping anything and the tubes will be slick ready to mount up brackets.

I got a Pul-a -Part where all axles are $65-$85 even XJ d44s , They just never have 4wd Fords. :doh:

 

[azxjman]

Thanks a ton!

But, Why go pay $250 for another front D44? When for $150-$200 I can get mine retubed with 1/2" tubes and to whatever length, plus no swaping anything and the tubes will be slick ready to mount up brackets.

I got a Pul-a -Part where all axles are $65-$85 even XJ d44s , They just never have 4wd Fords. :doh:

why is it around here (Arizona) the junk yards feel the need to rape us every time we come in. For a rear axle they want 400 plus a core and for any front 44 they want close to a thousand.

 

[ZachMan]

Ok was talking with some local Offroad club members and they said the castings can be cut off. Hmm, not sure thats true.

 

[CRASH]

77 and earlier radius arm mounts can be cut off. The full cast ones do not have tube passing through them. You can, however, cut off the inner yoke, press out the 1/2" stub that joins it to the casting, and you'd have a set of inner knuckles to press onto your new 1/2" tubes.

Why are you so set on using 1/2" tubes? edit: Are you trying to ditch the OEM Ford radius arms?

I just cut a 78 Bronco axle down for a friend this weekend. Took 4 inches out of the long side, but it requires a custom shaft for that side. Easy job, 4 hours from disassembly to finish.

CRASH

 

[ZachMan]

Yeah I want to run LAs, not radius arms.

I want 1/2" tubes because, well they are 1/2" tubes.

 

[CRASH]

What is an "LA"?

CRASH

 

[ZachMan]

What is an "LA"?

CRASH

Crash,

I know youhave been here awhile, your kidding right? Maybe a brain fart?

LA = Long Arms :thumbup:

 

[CRASH]

Crash,

I know youhave been here awhile, your kidding right? Maybe a brain fart?

LA = Long Arms :thumbup:

It seems to me that LA is not descriptive at all of any particular suspension design.

You can have one, two, three, or four long trailing arms. They can even be one of many designs that encompass the term "radius" arm, including the OEM Ford style.

In fact, most would consider the OEM Ford style to be an "LA", as it is about 75% longer than the OEM Cherokee suspension arm.

So, the point of my facetiousness was to try and ascertain what kind of suspension design you had in mind, not necessarily the relative length of the suspension components.

CRASH

 

[BrettM]

i'd say stick with 3/8 wall tubes, just for the sake of weight and cost savings, that's still serious beef

as for width, you said you want 65" wide with 5.5" backspaced wheels. just go Waggy width (~61") and 3.5" backspaced wheels and you will be the exact same overall width, it will protect your hubs better, and you will be able to use your histeer arms.

BTW, I have a Waggy axle and i'm using 2.5" backspaced 15x10s. why do you want it so narrow?

 

[ZachMan]

I want to use Claytons LAs, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[ZachMan]

i'd say stick with 3/8 wall tubes, just for the sake of weight and cost savings, that's still serious beef

as for width, you said you want 65" wide with 5.5" backspaced wheels. just go Waggy width (~61") and 3.5" backspaced wheels and you will be the exact same overall width, it will protect your hubs better, and you will be able to use your histeer arms.

BTW, I have a Waggy axle and i'm using 2.5" backspaced 15x10s. why do you want it so narrow?

Because I don't like the way it looks when your entire tire is outside the Jeep. Plus its a 2000 and its my DD and I already have no fenders. I do want some extra width and I may keep it stock width and run 5" bs wheels. The Waggy width with the 3.5" bs sounds like a good idea.

So whats the measurements for each tube on a stock Waggy? (I know Wilis touched on it) I'll just order a set of alloy Waggy shafts and sell my Warns.

 

[CRASH]

www.warn.com

All axle shaft lengths are listed. For a Waggy or Chevrolet style outer, add about 13.5 inches to the two axle legths and you can ascertain the WMS/WMS width. There are three ways to go on a Waggy, early or late style, or a combination of the two. Do the one that leaves you with the most tube length on the drivers side, because fitting a coil in there on the smaller one is a biatch.

CRASH

 

[JnJ]

www.warn.com

Do the one that leaves you with the most tube length on the drivers side, because fitting a coil in there on the smaller one is a biatch.

CRASH

Ain't that the truth!

 

[CRASH]

Amen, brutha.

CRASH

 

[ZachMan]

Well crap, just found out the machine shop I was gonna use doesn't do axles. I can't find a place that does, I may just fab some coil perches ontop of the "wedges".

Or I guess I may be looking for a HP D44 w/ welded mounts.

 

[FarmerMatt]

Why are you trying to make this so hard? I use that housing & narrow the long side 6". This allows you to use a standard EB long side inner shaft. It put the front end at about 60" WMS to WMS & the XJ coils line right up with the towers & fit into the coil buckets on the ford arms. Lengthen the ford arms to mount to your cross member & go. There is absolutely no difference in suspension design from the ford arms to claytons arms to RE's TJ arms except the ford "C" bushings will last longer because they're designed to take the binding of this style suspension. If you designed your arms right than I bet you could even make them line up with Claytons cross member if you've already got that. It's going to be more work trying to adapt that axle to use XJ componants than it would to just use whats there & the end result is the same.

Matt