AW4 swap issues

[YELLAHEEP]

Oops, yeah I did get that text but during my work days, I don't do much other than work and sleep and work again.

Hit me up with a call or txt Weds. afternoon and I'll get it for ya.

 

[JJacobs]

So what if you ignore the smaller, inner diameter.. the hole at the very back of the crank is 1.81" or so, right? Good to go if so.

 

[YELLAHEEP]

I guess this thread could result in me learning something new about crank/torque converter compatibility.......

I just don't think there's any issue here. I've taken a ton of transmissions out of these damn jeeps and from many different production years........ if the tolerances were anything more than snug..... I'd have had the occasion to have pulled a trans out, leaving the converter stuck in the crank. Seemingly, if the tolerances were tight, the converter stub would bind in the crank the moment you remove all the bellhousing bolts and the trans hangs at the slightest angle.

Every auto trans I've worked on - the converter is easily pushed away from and pulled into contact with the flexplate. If that stub was to fit tightly, there'd be some snug feel at the least when trying to push it out of, or into the crank.

Right?

:dunno:

 

[JJacobs]

They don't bind because the flange is so thin where it touches the crank. It doesn't tend to stick when the angle changes while removing the trans. I've seen a couple guys on that managed to bind the converter by cranking down one bolt at a time, though.

For instance. AW4 behind 401. Got parts such that the converter bolts would all go right in through whatever flexplate it was. No crank pilot though. Tried to make one by welding a pipe stub on the end, but got it just a hair off center. It had a pretty significant vibration after that. I could have left the redneck converter snout off and had the same vibration as there's just enough play in the bolt holes.

25 pounds at high rpm can put out some pretty hefty harmonics if it's not running true..

 

[YELLAHEEP]

Oh I definitely agree with what you're saying Jon.

But are we suggesting in this thread that there are certain years/versions of the 4.0 crank that have different size pilot holes milled out of them? I'm not sure that's the case, otherwise when going to replace/install the pilot bearing for a manual trans application, there'd be more than one part number option. I don't recall there being but one bushing/insert that the pilot bearing sits in for the 4.0 crank.

This would definitely be good info to know and be mindful of when putting these engines/transmissions together.

I'm just sitting here thinking that I must have experienced quite a bit of dumb luck having never had a trans install or engine install be goofed up due to a converter not seating properly.........

 

[papasmurf]

Oh I definitely agree with what you're saying Jon.

But are we suggesting in this thread that there are certain years/versions of the 4.0 crank that have different size pilot holes milled out of them? I'm not sure that's the case, otherwise when going to replace/install the pilot bearing for a manual trans application, there'd be more than one part number option.

Yes there are a couple different sizes of bushing. I wish I could remember where I found my info when I first ran into this. I have run into this twice so far in my swapping of transmissions from this to that. Im not sure on the specifics from year to year. But I have had 3 different bushings in my crank for the three different trannies. The bore in the back of Dutch's crank is .998 and the diameter on his torque converter is .826. Thats almost 3/16 clearance. With that much clearance you risk it wobbling around and wearing out bearings and seals. The clearance should only be about .005 or so. Just a nice slip fit so you dont have to worry about it binding when you go in and out with the trans.

Here is an example of the two different sizes

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base



Hey JJ where is that 1.808 number coming from what is the tranny out of?

 

[DutchVDub]

I'm pretty sure he is measuring the flange after the pilot stub, I just measured mine and its 1.808. The flange doesn't go inside the crank, it should sit up against it. the little stub is what goes into the pilot hole on the cranks.

Troy, there are a couple of different part numbers for different pilot bearings on Jeep 4.0L's. When I first ran into this issue I went onto CSK and Autozone and looked up different years of XJ and YJ and just searched "pilot bushing". All that kept coming up were pilot bearings for manual transmissions and there were as couple of different ones.

Here is what I had in my Jeep
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...1180112_3644&keyword=pilot&pt=C2325&ppt=C0015

Here is another
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...1180112_3644&keyword=pilot&pt=C2325&ppt=C0015

 

[kastein]

Oh I definitely agree with what you're saying Jon.

But are we suggesting in this thread that there are certain years/versions of the 4.0 crank that have different size pilot holes milled out of them? I'm not sure that's the case, otherwise when going to replace/install the pilot bearing for a manual trans application, there'd be more than one part number option. I don't recall there being but one bushing/insert that the pilot bearing sits in for the 4.0 crank.

This would definitely be good info to know and be mindful of when putting these engines/transmissions together.

I'm just sitting here thinking that I must have experienced quite a bit of dumb luck having never had a trans install or engine install be goofed up due to a converter not seating properly.........

I've seen people run into that too, someone I know (forget who) said they got a pilot bearing with the bushing, part number FC69907, and it was just a hair too loose. Now I'm a bit worried, as a friend of mine is likely to be doing a 5 speed swap soon and I'm not sure we have the right bearing+bushing now.

 

[Gotlift01]

Dutch, if this is more headache than you want dealing with this tranny...bring it back over and I'll get you your money back. :thumbup:

 

[papasmurf]

Kastein if you have problems finding a bushing that fits right (which I dont think you will have a problem) let me know. I can make one for you. I should have a bushing for Dutch's tonight if all goes well here at work today.

 

[JJacobs]

I'm pretty sure he is measuring the flange after the pilot stub, I just measured mine and its 1.808. The flange doesn't go inside the crank, it should sit up against it. the little stub is what goes into the pilot hole on the cranks.

Nope. It's the big flange, not the small stub that centers it up.

 

[DutchVDub]

Nope. It's the big flange, not the small stub that centers it up.

MOTHER XXXXING SON OF GOD DAMN BITCH AS FAGGOT XXXX!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:



Ok, nevermind. Yes the crank does have a small recess in it that the flange fits perfectly into. The Torque converter sits up flush with the flexplate. :doh:

:flamemad: :flamemad: :flamemad: :flamemad:

I could've had this transmission in there monday like I had originally intended but I was overthinking it and got all :wierd:

XXXX!!!!! :smsoap:


Ok, well time to install the transmission now.

 

[JJacobs]

Cue Troy in 3..2..1..

 

[papasmurf]

Oh That makes sense. So the manual trans actually uses a dif. bore all together. I never noticed that it was that big flange that centered the torque converter.:doh:

 

[YELLAHEEP]

LOL@Dutch........ :roflmao:


The only differences in pilot bushing/bearings that I'm aware of is the difference between early and late model AX15 input shafts. There are two different sizes for those, but as far as the milling of the crank where the large diameter of the pilot bearing/bushing goes, that should be the same size for the majority of 4.0 production.