AW4 + ATF+4 = no good??

[gw204]

Actually, the TSB states just the opposite. ATF+4 is approved for use in the AW4. There are no ill effects.

But how much trust should you put in a company that releases a TSB where the transmission manufacturer's name is misspelled???

 

[Tim_MN]

I have a 6-8 XJ owners manuals from the 80's and 90's and 4 Factory Service manuals covering the same range of years. They all specify Dexron/Mercon for the AW-4. That what I will use until I can't buy it any more. I can buy Dex/Merc at the WalMart, the hardware store, the grocery store, 7-11 and Circle K, the Farm and Fleet store, and even at the auto parts stores.

You can put ATF+4 in your Chrysler Transmissions, but my AW-4 will always use Dex/Merc.

 

[kastein]

But how much trust should you put in a company that releases a TSB where the transmission manufacturer's name is misspelled???

The same amount as I put in people who make non-grammatical posts :scottm:

I will likely use dex/merc until it's tough to find also, the only reason I really care about this info is so I can stop worrying if I find myself needing transmission fluid and the only thing that's available is ATF+4.

 

[Digger87xj]

no difference in switching to +4 than switching up to royal purple synthetic.
I don't see a reason for all the hubbub.

It works, can stand higher heat, has better viscosity holding properties... :shrug:

 

[sbxj]

no difference in switching to +4 than switching up to royal purple synthetic.
I don't see a reason for all the hubbub.

It works, can stand higher heat, has better viscosity holding properties... :shrug:

I'm with you there...although I do understand those that stick to M/D3
IMO most tranny problems stem from lack of maintenance, not switching to a synthetic.
Personally, I like the peace of mind from using all synthetics in the Jeeps.

 

[gw204]

The same amount as I put in people who make nongrammatical posts :scottm:

I will likely use dex/merc until it's tough to find. Also, the only reason I really care about this info is so I can stop worrying if I find myself needing transmission fluid and the only thing that's available is ATF+4.

Good point. :cheers:

 

[joe_peters]

A week ago I couldn't even spell "grammarian", and today I are one! :lecture:

 

[kastein]

Good point. :cheers:

I actually meant it how I said it, though you're right that I should have phrased it differently. What I meant is "like old_man and Joe Peters, I will use dex/merc until it is no longer available."

The whole synth vs dino oil thing is somewhat overblown IMO. People use the word like it's magical. My distrust of ATF+4 was due to the different friction modifiers, detergents, and other additives in it, not because it's a synthetic base fluid.

 

[87manche]

I will likely use dex/merc until it's tough to find also, the only reason I really care about this info is so I can stop worrying if I find myself needing transmission fluid and the only thing that's available is ATF+4.

Dex-VI is the recommended replacement forDex-III, according to GM. It's supposed to blend with Dex-III and not be an issue. It's not full synthetic, it's a synthetic blend with friction modifiers similar to Dex-III.

THe guy at the GM dealership told me that all of the Dex-III spec transmissions should work fine with Dex-VI.

Just what I gathered from a lengthy conversation with the parts counter guy at the local GM dealership. I wasn't trying to blow up my father in law's transmission using anything but what GM told me to put in there.

 

[Jeepguy03]

The only problem is that my fluid looks bright pink. If I were to drain and refill with Dex III or Dex VI I wouldn't be able to tell how many times I would need to drain and fill to completely fill it with Dex/Merc. When I changed the trans fluid on my previous XJ, I just drained and filled until the fluid was pink instead of dirty. I think it took about 4 times. I'd also feel better off leaving the ATF+4 in there instead of draining some and mixing it with Dex/Merc while I try and switch out the fluid.

 

[austinaubinoe]

no difference in switching to +4 than switching up to royal purple synthetic.
I don't see a reason for all the hubbub.

It works, can stand higher heat, has better viscosity holding properties... :shrug:

:thumbup:

 

[xjman96]

I used to have a 1987 XJ AW-4. I tried Mobil1 and soon after it started slipping. Perhaps unrelated but it happened.

I have a cooler in my 96. To change the fluid I disconnect the return hose, start the engine and start refilling as it dumps the old fluid. Partial changes are OK if it is a routine service, if the fluid is bad, it will take for ever because after you start the engine the old and new mix.

 

[ColoradoRaptor]

Actually, the TSB states just the opposite. ATF+4 is approved for use in the AW4. There are no ill effects.


ATF+4 can handle more heat than Dextron.

Ding Ding Ding........... we have a winner!!! This " Your AW4 was designed to only run DEX/Merc" is a bunch of crap! Bottom line " Your transmission your choice"! I have run +4 in my AW4 for 4 years now with no ill effect!

 

[5-90]

The only problem is that my fluid looks bright pink. If I were to drain and refill with Dex III or Dex VI I wouldn't be able to tell how many times I would need to drain and fill to completely fill it with Dex/Merc. When I changed the trans fluid on my previous XJ, I just drained and filled until the fluid was pink instead of dirty. I think it took about 4 times. I'd also feel better off leaving the ATF+4 in there instead of draining some and mixing it with Dex/Merc while I try and switch out the fluid.

Apparently, the issue is that the friction modifiers in the +3/+4 are different from the FMs in the Dexron - can anyone confirm?

As far as a fluid change, it's mathematics.

ASSUME: The AW4 has an eight-quart full capacity, and a four-quart "service fill" capacity (the drain/fill job takes four quarts of fluid.)

1st CHANGE - Four quarts are drained and refilled using D-VI. You now have four quarts of D-VI and four of +4.

Drive 3,000-5,000 miles.

2d CHANGE - Four quarts are drained & filled again. You (theoretically) have two quarts of +4 and six of D-VI.

Drive 3,000-5,000 miles.

3d CHANGE - Theoretically, you now have one quart of +4 and seven of D-VI.

Zeno's Paradox sez you won't get it all out. Practically, you won't have to! As the concentration of the FM package in the +4 decreases and the FM package in the D-VI increases, the +4 will become less of a factor anyhow Even if you "power-changed" the fluid (ran it out into a bucket from the cooler line and topped off using the other port,) you're still not going to get rid of it "all" - but you don't have to, for the reason given.

In practise, the mathematical predictions won't be followed exactly - but the results will be close enough for practical effect, so you'll be fine. I'd suggest doing at least two changes, and run a can of Berryman's B-12 in during run cycle between 1st change and 2d change, to help flush things out (which probably wants doing anyhow.)

Fluid colour isn't a reliable indicator of concentration - since D-II/IIE/III/VI, Type F, +3/+4, and MerconV are all red anyhow. You just have to have faith in the mathematical theory as presented...

 

[x99j]

Apparently, the issue is that the friction modifiers in the +3/+4 are different from the FMs in the Dexron - can anyone confirm?

atf +4 falls into the category of "highly friction modified" fluid. fluids in this catagory are toyota t-iv,ws,hyundai sp III, honda z-1, nissan matic s&k, ford mercon v,sp,lv, just to name a few. atf+4 is one of the most advanced fluids on the market because it is made from a group III base oil, where as the other "Hfm" fluids are blends. chrysler did this because they wanted a shear stable fluid for the 41te. it is an excellent fluid but the question is: how good is it for the aw4? and do the added friction modifiers negatively effect the aw4? i don't know the answer so i use good old merc/dex III, and change it often.

 

[metaldemon7]

I have a 98 that I bought in 03. The first thing I did when I bought it was change all the fluids. I have flushed the transmission every two years since then with ATF+4 with no problems. When I first bought the Jeep, I had a hard time finding ATF+4. I also do the diffs, and transfer case at the same time. Coolant gets it once a year. Engine oil every 3000-4000.

 

[xjman96]

I have a 98 that I bought in 03. The first thing I did when I bought it was change all the fluids. I have flushed the transmission every two years since then with ATF+4 with no problems. When I first bought the Jeep, I had a hard time finding ATF+4. I also do the diffs, and transfer case at the same time. Coolant gets it once a year. Engine oil every 3000-4000.

I use Valvoline synthetic ATF+4 in my transfer cases.
At one time I thought that all ATF+4 is supposed to be synthetic, not so sure now.

 

[Jeepguy03]

Funny this thread was revived. I recently talked to a buddy of mine who has a slipping AW4. His tranny has had Dex/Merc its whole life so the problem is unrelated to the fluid type. The dealership, which insists ATF+4 is the correct fluid, also doesn't fix AW4's. They only replace them. This makes me wonder how much they care about how long these things last. They obviously make more money replacing one then fixing one. After talking to other XJ owners, I think its safe to say the ATF+4 is safe, since like stated above it can handle more heat which is the ultimate killer of automatic trannys.

Oh and about my buddy's tranny, we were never going to the dealership to have it fixed, just wanted an estimate. A 200 dollar used AW4 and a weekend of time sounds a lot better than $2100 for a new one. :confused1

 

[kastein]

A 200 dollar used AW4? Those exist? Never pay over 100 unless it was just rebuilt... hit the classifieds on here. They usually go for 50-100.

The only time I've paid over 75 was the one time I got completely hosed - was in a bind and needed it NOW, ended up with a completely worthless AW4 (worse than my original one) and an NP231 for $220 days after I was told I would have it*. So it ended up being some expensive spare parts and an expensive NP231 :smsoap:

* ran into the junkyard right before closing on Saturday needing a new trans, they charged me 100 pull fee and 120 for the trans and only after I signed did they tell me "oh hey it won't be pulled till wednesday, sucks to be you eh?" I drove to new jersey and back the next day and picked up a 4.0, AW4, and NP231 for $250 combined (too good a deal to pass up, figured I should have spares anyways.) Ended up selling the 4.0 to a friend for $80 after his blew up, still have the AW4 and NP231.

 

[Jeepguy03]

A 200 dollar used AW4? Those exist? Never pay over 100 unless it was just rebuilt... hit the classifieds on here. They usually go for 50-100.

The only time I've paid over 75 was the one time I got completely hosed - was in a bind and needed it NOW, ended up with a completely worthless AW4 (worse than my original one) and an NP231 for $220 days after I was told I would have it*. So it ended up being some expensive spare parts and an expensive NP231 :smsoap:

* ran into the junkyard right before closing on Saturday needing a new trans, they charged me 100 pull fee and 120 for the trans and only after I signed did they tell me "oh hey it won't be pulled till wednesday, sucks to be you eh?" I drove to new jersey and back the next day and picked up a 4.0, AW4, and NP231 for $250 combined (too good a deal to pass up, figured I should have spares anyways.) Ended up selling the 4.0 to a friend for $80 after his blew up, still have the AW4 and NP231.

That sucks man. This I think is an okay deal. Theres hardly any cherokees in the junkyards around here. The one we found is out of a wrecked 2000 that was rear ended, and it only had 68K miles. Its an AW4/NP231 combo for 200 bucks. Should have been more clear.