Another shooting....

[87manche]

You can't read either. I'm not against guns; therefore, I'm not obliged to live up to your presumptions that I'm a gun hating liberal. I'm not a gun expert either; therefore I cannot answer your questions to your satisfaction, but if you want to get into a pissing contest explain to me how you'll be able to afford armed guards at every school, or how you'll tackle mental illness?

put up or shut up.

your reading comprehension isn't that good either.

I already stated that the NRA has offered to fund the entire program, just as they fund the Eddie Eagle gun safety program for little kids.

So you admit that you're not an expert or not familiar with firearms, yet you continue to make arguments about the restriction of said firearms.

How is it that you can lecture on what will be effective when you're no expert?
Obviously I am more familiar with the function and operation of these rifles, I've told you that limiting mag capacity will not have any effect, why do you ignore my statements when I obviously know more about the subject than you?

As to your mental illness statements, the first step I woudl take is limiting the prescription of anti depressants and stimulants to gradeschool and teenaged populations. Since Columbine 14 mass murderers were exposed to be on these drugs. Of course the number may be higher, this is just the information released to the public.

DrMoab,
You bring up valid points about tracking unmarked parts. Lets not forget the wikidefense project, or the fact taht AR-15 mags have already been printed on a 3d printer. Body, floorplate, spring and floower all created with a 3d printer at home.
How do you plan to regulate the home gunsmiths Urban Yan? I can make an AR-15 lower out of a piece of wood and it would function. it's been done.

 

[Vanimal]

another shooting today.... some guy in upstate NY set a house on fire then fired apon the firemen when they came to help. shot 4 firemen, 2 died. 3 houses burned as a result as well.

 

[DrMoab]

We should ban house fires.

 

[urban yan]

We should ban house fires.

classy.

 

[WB9YZU]

Again, I'd feel allot better if people didn't line up at gun shops after these types of mass shootings.

Again, your logic is backwards here.

Few people actually line up at guns shops after these kinds of mass shootings to buy protection.

They line up in droves to buy the items that the Anti-Gun folks decry that they will be targeting.

Right now there are no AR15s, .223 cartridges, or Hi-Cap mags to be found, because they have all been horded.

If that was the effect anti-gun folks were looking for, they got it.
3 months from now, there will be an even larger supply of these items around than there was before all this anti-gun crap. We saw it when Obama came into office, and we will see it again and again until the anti-gun folks realize that by shouting "Ban", they are being counter productive.

-Ron

 

[WB9YZU]

We should ban house fires.

Tragic. Lots of "Copy Cat" stuff going on right now, and the Press is NOT helping when they publish these stories.

Sick people looking for their 5 minutes of fame eat this stuff up.

-Ron

 

[MJ3000]

Again, your logic is backwards here.

Few people actually line up at guns shops after these kinds of mass shootings to buy protection.

They line up in droves to buy the items that the Anti-Gun folks decry that they will be targeting.

Right now there are no AR15s, .223 cartridges, or Hi-Cap mags to be found, because they have all been horded.

If that was the effect anti-gun folks were looking for, they got it.
3 months from now, there will be an even larger supply of these items around than there was before all this anti-gun crap. We saw it when Obama came into office, and we will see it again and again until the anti-gun folks realize that by shouting "Ban", they are being counter productive.

-Ron

Last time I checked it doesn't matter at all WHY they are lining up, no one cares about that. The fact that they are at all just shows how much intelligence they lack. I will say it for the second time: if anyone (in general) feels the need that they HAVE to go out and buy an AR because a few people in power say "we need to have a conversation about this or that", you are an idiot. If you follow politics, you already know for a fact Obama or Congress will do absolutely nothing significant. I guarentee it.

No matter how much "crazy" talk people like myself believe in, we are the minority on this issue. We also don't have hundred of millions of dollars to fight our side. There's way too much money and people who don't even want to have a conversation for anything to happen. Once we get one of those two things, MAYBE something might change.

As for the house fire ban joke and blaming other things: how about we at least start to talk about the ONE thing all of these stories have in common? Oh, right...guns. Why can't we at least maybe talk about sensible laws about guns? It is ALWAYS everything BUT guns, always. Should guns be less regulated and registered than cars? Well they are, no one sees any problem with that right?

And this is my feeling about the AWB: I have shot AK's and AR's, I live in the middle of the woods in Pa, lots of people with LOTS of guns here. And yes, they are cool as hell to shoot. But this is my opinion: with no REAL, not far-fetched "needed use" for assault rifles....I would hand them over in a heartbeat if it saved 2% of victims of gun violence. It's only 2%, but that's 200 LIVES a year. 200 lives every year is worth more than any gun. Hell, one life is to me. Were not talking about 200 apples, oranges, dollars, or cars. We're talking about the ONLY living, breathing, intelligent being on this planet: US.

We are figuratively swimming in a sea of weaponry in this country, and while banning assault rifles or high cap mags won't get rid of them (obviously) what it will do is put a cap on an already large problem. Until we are literally all swimming in guns, I don't think people will realize, well golly gee, I guess we don't need THAT many guns. The United States is first in the world in number of guns per 100 people. We almost have DOUBLE what Yemen has who is in 2nd place on the same list. We are literally crazy with guns in this country. We needed a "well regulated militia" as your beloved second amendment states. A well regulated militia is NOT every civilian toting around the same weapons our army uses to fight world wars because they have the "right" to.

Merry Christmas to all

 

[DrMoab]

No but you have Hollywood and the media. That's worth ten times the money the gun rights advocates have.

 

[kayle666]

:laugh2::roflmao:

We should ban house fires.

 

[cracker]

Last time I checked it doesn't matter at all WHY they are lining up, no one cares about that. The fact that they are at all just shows how much intelligence they lack. I will say it for the second time: if anyone (in general) feels the need that they HAVE to go out and buy an AR because a few people in power say "we need to have a conversation about this or that", you are an idiot. If you follow politics, you already know for a fact Obama or Congress will do absolutely nothing significant. I guarentee it.

No matter how much "crazy" talk people like myself believe in, we are the minority on this issue. We also don't have hundred of millions of dollars to fight our side. There's way too much money and people who don't even want to have a conversation for anything to happen. Once we get one of those two things, MAYBE something might change.

As for the house fire ban joke and blaming other things: how about we at least start to talk about the ONE thing all of these stories have in common? Oh, right...guns. Why can't we at least maybe talk about sensible laws about guns? It is ALWAYS everything BUT guns, always. Should guns be less regulated and registered than cars? Well they are, no one sees any problem with that right?

And this is my feeling about the AWB: I have shot AK's and AR's, I live in the middle of the woods in Pa, lots of people with LOTS of guns here. And yes, they are cool as hell to shoot. But this is my opinion: with no REAL, not far-fetched "needed use" for assault rifles....I would hand them over in a heartbeat if it saved 2% of victims of gun violence. It's only 2%, but that's 200 LIVES a year. 200 lives every year is worth more than any gun. Hell, one life is to me. Were not talking about 200 apples, oranges, dollars, or cars. We're talking about the ONLY living, breathing, intelligent being on this planet: US.

We are figuratively swimming in a sea of weaponry in this country, and while banning assault rifles or high cap mags won't get rid of them (obviously) what it will do is put a cap on an already large problem. Until we are literally all swimming in guns, I don't think people will realize, well golly gee, I guess we don't need THAT many guns. The United States is first in the world in number of guns per 100 people. We almost have DOUBLE what Yemen has who is in 2nd place on the same list. We are literally crazy with guns in this country. We needed a "well regulated militia" as your beloved second amendment states. A well regulated militia is NOT every civilian toting around the same weapons our army uses to fight world wars because they have the "right" to.

Merry Christmas to all

They are not 'assault' rifles.

 

[hawkeye 1]

. A well regulated militia is NOT every civilian toting around the same weapons our army uses to fight world wars because they have the "right" to.

Merry Christmas to all

If you would take the time to educate yourself about the topic you're talking about, you would find out real fast that an AR15 type weapon is not the same as the militarys M16 type weapon, nor can it easily be made into one.The military uses a full automatic, or better, select fire weapon, while the AR15 is a semi automatic weapon that only looks like an M16. So we are not toting around the same weapon our army uses to fight world wars, but the weapon that was especially designed for lawful civilian use.
And since it was designed for lawful civilian use, it is my right to have one.

A Merry Christmas to all.

 

[kayle666]

i tired bringing that up as well but no one wants to deal in facts

 

[Vanimal]

Last time I checked it doesn't matter at all WHY they are lining up, no one cares about that. The fact that they are at all just shows how much intelligence they lack. I will say it for the second time: if anyone (in general) feels the need that they HAVE to go out and buy an AR because a few people in power say "we need to have a conversation about this or that", you are an idiot. If you follow politics, you already know for a fact Obama or Congress will do absolutely nothing significant. I guarentee it.

No matter how much "crazy" talk people like myself believe in, we are the minority on this issue. We also don't have hundred of millions of dollars to fight our side. There's way too much money and people who don't even want to have a conversation for anything to happen. Once we get one of those two things, MAYBE something might change.

As for the house fire ban joke and blaming other things: how about we at least start to talk about the ONE thing all of these stories have in common? Oh, right...guns. Why can't we at least maybe talk about sensible laws about guns? It is ALWAYS everything BUT guns, always. Should guns be less regulated and registered than cars? Well they are, no one sees any problem with that right?

And this is my feeling about the AWB: I have shot AK's and AR's, I live in the middle of the woods in Pa, lots of people with LOTS of guns here. And yes, they are cool as hell to shoot. But this is my opinion: with no REAL, not far-fetched "needed use" for assault rifles....I would hand them over in a heartbeat if it saved 2% of victims of gun violence. It's only 2%, but that's 200 LIVES a year. 200 lives every year is worth more than any gun. Hell, one life is to me. Were not talking about 200 apples, oranges, dollars, or cars. We're talking about the ONLY living, breathing, intelligent being on this planet: US.

We are figuratively swimming in a sea of weaponry in this country, and while banning assault rifles or high cap mags won't get rid of them (obviously) what it will do is put a cap on an already large problem. Until we are literally all swimming in guns, I don't think people will realize, well golly gee, I guess we don't need THAT many guns. The United States is first in the world in number of guns per 100 people. We almost have DOUBLE what Yemen has who is in 2nd place on the same list. We are literally crazy with guns in this country. We needed a "well regulated militia" as your beloved second amendment states. A well regulated militia is NOT every civilian toting around the same weapons our army uses to fight world wars because they have the "right" to.

Merry Christmas to all

Do you live in Centralia? might explain a bit....

I have ZERO interest in guns, and i still think you and urban yan are nuts.
I do not shoot for pleasure, do not own a gun, do not even know how do identify a type of gun. I've gone to the range several times, it bores me. don't get it. I get more of a thrill shooting spit balls out of air guns in the shop. at least you can hit people with those.
but really, how can anyone think it's a good idea to not have a way to defend themselves or family? against civilian intruders or government.

 

[hawkeye 1]

Next Fact for all those liberal weaklings wanting to ban assault weapons. During my time in the military (early 1980s to late 80s) we were trained to be an assault weapon, with only our hands and bodies.
So, please tell me again what you want to ban?
As long as you can't determine what an assault weapon is, you are better of keeping your mouth shut and educate yourself about that topic.

 

[MJ3000]

No but you have Hollywood and the media. That's worth ten times the money the gun rights advocates have.

Ohhhh ok. You don't like people like me simply bringing up a discussion of some sensible laws for guns to save some lives that will affect NOTHING in your daily life. And complain about how discussions like I propose are "walking back the rights we enjoy everyday"....so the censorship or blaming of mass media isn't walking back our rights? Ok, makes sense.

And I am so sorry, I forgot that Japan, Australia, and all the other countries that have little to no homicides caused by guns have outlawed video games and movies. Oh wait...they all have the same games and movies we do. Japan loves video games and technology more than the US does. They have little to no homicides by guns because they have incredibly strict access and regulation for their guns. Imagine that.

Why do you have such a strict, constructive, it is what it is, don't EVER change, modify, or talk about it way of thinking towards the second amendment? Yet you have absolutely NO problem pointing fingers and starting a discussion about walking back the rights of first amendment? That's called nitpicking, choosing what doesn't affect you. Last I checked, if a mentally insane movie addict goes into a school wielding a DVD trying to emulate what he sees...they will be sadly disappointed. They will choose a gun, obviously. They don't NEED a gun...they could choose a knife, car, bomb, or anything. Fact is a gun is the easiest, quickest, most widely available, efficient way to kill. Of course I won't invest the time and effort in a bomb if I have something just as good sitting in my basement that is always ready to go. Of course we should strongly regulate a weapon with that resume. It's not logically correct that items such as cars are more regulated than an item such as a gun.

The video game argument is an open and closed case, it is nowhere in the solution. And for the record I hate video games, I own an Xbox only for instant Netflix. :yelclap:

 

[DrMoab]

No. What I don't like is someone who is a total anti gun nut gets a good 15 min bit of time on CNN then they give someone like Wayne LaPiere from the NRA about a 30 sec spot.

They are the reason people like you can't think for yourself. Everything you have said in this thread sounds like it comes right from the Brady campaign's bullet points.

And please....don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about violent movies or video games. What I meant was that Hollywood...or more the idiots staring in Hollywood movies like to use their money and influence to try and tell the rest of America how to live their lives.

 

[MJ3000]

Do you live in Centralia? might explain a bit....

I have ZERO interest in guns, and i still think you and urban yan are nuts.
I do not shoot for pleasure, do not own a gun, do not even know how do identify a type of gun. I've gone to the range several times, it bores me. don't get it. I get more of a thrill shooting spit balls out of air guns in the shop. at least you can hit people with those.
but really, how can anyone think it's a good idea to not have a way to defend themselves or family? against civilian intruders or government.

Bold the part of my post where I suggested that? Simple task, then get back to me. I have never once said in this entire thread that you can't defend yourself. Did I mention ANYTHING about getting rid of handguns or hunting rifles in that post? Once you find and prove I actually said that, I will apologize because I believe you have every right to defend yourself, but NOT with every single gun under the sun.

 

[DrMoab]

Why are you so scared of a rifle that happens to be painted black? There really isn't a difference between many hunting rifles and so called "assult riffles"

Again....quit listening to the media and all their stupid catch phrases.

Here is a perfect example.

Tell me the difference between these two rifles? You know what it is? It's the paint. One of these however would be on the new bills ban list and the other would not. One is made for hunting and one is....well, also made for hunting but the government, media and Hollywood would want you to buy the one with wood because it looks less scary. Thats it...the only difference.

 

[hawkeye 1]

I will apologize because I believe you have every right to defend yourself, but NOT with every single gun under the sun.

What do you mean? What in your mind is every single gun under the sun?
As law abiding citizens we don't have any access to military assault weapons period.
No access to any fully automatic assault weapons whatsoever without a special permit and a hefty tax bill.

So if you will, please define your weak statement.

 

[MJ3000]

Why are you so scared of a rifle that happens to be painted black? There really isn't a difference between many hunting rifles and so called "assult riffles"

Again....quit listening to the media and all their stupid catch phrases.

Here is a perfect example.

Tell me the difference between these two rifles? You know what it is? It's the paint. One of these however would be on the new bills ban list and the other would not. One is made for hunting and one is....well, also made for hunting but the government, media and Hollywood would want you to buy the one with wood because it looks less scary. Thats it...the only difference.

I apologize if I kind of directed that last one at you. I couldn't tell what you meant by two sentences. One of the many ills of the Internet.

Anyway, why the NRA only gets 30 seconds? Because they use games and movies as an excuse when you can clearly reason and find multiple studies showing it has ZERO effect on anything. Because they use far out, extreme views like that is why they get so little media attention, it only appeals to a small number of people's views. Because the general populous of this country thinks it is crazy as well, they take everything they say with a grain of salt. That is why.

And I guess I have to address my "lack of knowledge" about guns now. Again, I live in PA. My best friends LOVE guns. And through them and my parents who also own guns, I know just as much and can shoot any gun just as good if not better than your average gun owner.

I use assault weapons because that is what the ban is called. It is literally called the assault weapons ban. It is the job of lawmakers and politicians to work out the details of what exactly is an "assault weapon." I am not going to say any rifle with the capability to fire x number of bullets in x amount of time, I am going to save myself the time and characters and just say assault weapon like everyone else. Once you guys can even remotely come on board with such an idea, THEN we will work out the details of the exact definition of an assault rifle.