Another shooting....

[MJ3000]

87manche, Of course we're not talking about making our Jeeps illegal, or knives, or fertilizer (since you can make a bomb), or a dumptruck, or anything. Everyone single one of those aforementioned items has some legitimate use to better or help the world. Knives are great for cutting things other than people, Jeeps are obviously awesome period, fertilizer grows the food we eat everyday, and dump trucks are a huge logistical tool.

Name one thing a gun is used for other than ending life. Comp shooting, target practice, blah blah blah, like you all are posting. But ask yourself this...will you give up the ability to target practice or watch some competition with SOME high powered weapons in order to save lives? That is the bottom line. Your saying because you want to keep these meaningless things, yourself and lunatics alike should be able to go down the gun store and buy whatever their crazy heart desires. No. Just because you think an AR or AK is cool and goes boom, and it says something about arms in the constitution, is not a legitimate reason to have it when we are killing each other left and right. Instead of relieving stress with guns, go down to your local food bank or help someone out, I guarentee you'll feel much better about yourself.

And Rush Power Systems, really? Canada is a step above a 3rd world country? Please, enlighten me with your facts about this. Last time I checked Canada shares many similarities with the way our country works.

 

[87manche]

87manche, Of course we're not talking about making our Jeeps illegal, or knives, or fertilizer (since you can make a bomb), or a dumptruck, or anything. Everyone single one of those aforementioned items has some legitimate use to better or help the world. Knives are great for cutting things other than people, Jeeps are obviously awesome period, fertilizer grows the food we eat everyday, and dump trucks are a huge logistical tool.

Name one thing a gun is used for other than ending life. Comp shooting, target practice, blah blah blah, like you all are posting. But ask yourself this...will you give up the ability to target practice or watch some competition with SOME high powered weapons in order to save lives? That is the bottom line. Your saying because you want to keep these meaningless things, yourself and lunatics alike should be able to go down the gun store and buy whatever their crazy heart desires. No. Just because you think an AR or AK is cool and goes boom, and it says something about arms in the constitution, is not a legitimate reason to have it when we are killing each other left and right. Instead of relieving stress with guns, go down to your local food bank or help someone out, I guarentee you'll feel much better about yourself.

And Rush Power Systems, really? Canada is a step above a 3rd world country? Please, enlighten me with your facts about this. Last time I checked Canada shares many similarities with the way our country works.

again, just because YOU have no use for these firearms does not mean they do not have uses.

lots of people hunt with AR style rifles, lots of people hunt hogs and the like with big caliber semi auto rifles. Why? Because there are many targets at a distance and not a lot of time to hit them all.

You harp on these rifles bing useless other than killing people, yet you dismiss the fact that they may be used to save lives just as well as take them.

It's not an inanimate objects fault.

Lots of people don't have a use for non road legal wheeling rigs, yet we fight tooth and nail to keep those because we enjoy them.

I happen to enjoy semi automatic rifles, why should I change my lifestyle because one nutbag shot up a school?

again, I will direct you to the facts of mass murder, and that's it's easier to accomplish such a thing using other means than a rifle.

as to helping people, I invited a complete stranger into my house, put her up for a week and repaired her truck so she could drive cross country to see her dying father before he passed. I paid for parts out of my pocket.

So yeah, I have a feeling of what it's like to do good, and I'm very disappointed that you make the correlation that gun owners cannot be compassionate.

 

[Breezio69]

87manche, Of course we're not talking about making our Jeeps illegal, or knives, or fertilizer (since you can make a bomb), or a dumptruck, or anything. Everyone single one of those aforementioned items has some legitimate use to better or help the world. Knives are great for cutting things other than people, Jeeps are obviously awesome period, fertilizer grows the food we eat everyday, and dump trucks are a huge logistical tool.

Name one thing a gun is used for other than ending life. Comp shooting, target practice, blah blah blah, like you all are posting. But ask yourself this...will you give up the ability to target practice or watch some competition with SOME high powered weapons in order to save lives? That is the bottom line. Your saying because you want to keep these meaningless things, yourself and lunatics alike should be able to go down the gun store and buy whatever their crazy heart desires. No. Just because you think an AR or AK is cool and goes boom, and it says something about arms in the constitution, is not a legitimate reason to have it when we are killing each other left and right. Instead of relieving stress with guns, go down to your local food bank or help someone out, I guarentee you'll feel much better about yourself.

And Rush Power Systems, really? Canada is a step above a 3rd world country? Please, enlighten me with your facts about this. Last time I checked Canada shares many similarities with the way our country works.

Think about this... if we didn't have guns, or they got banned when they were first made because they were seen as "too dangerous for society or any normal person to own", then we wouldn't live in the country we are in today. I dunno what your problem is, but guns made America. If didn't have em we'd be the ones in Africa with no power or food etc.

Get off your high horse and stop crying, like I said before, so many people "care" about guns after a tragedy. Its a joke.

 

[in4aride]

Ok ok. so a knife is useful for other things per your post.
also per your posts so it a gun, for hunting or self defense.

a jeep is purely awesome per your post. -insinuating iy is off limits.
the same could be said about a firearm.

fertilizers give us food per your post.
so does a gun.

big trucks are logisticaly better investment that alternatives for it's purpose.per your post.
a fire arm is logistically a better choice than the alternatives for its purpose.

I know it is hard to gather because the news and politicians feed so much crap...but a basic ar15 is nothing to brag about. i actually have a bushmaster ar15 and it is a pea shooter compared to other fire arms in it's category. That is fact. Tons of companies make upgrades to the ar platform to allow you to run a different bullet be use the .223 round leaves a lot to be desired if you are looking for a punch.

you mentioned the ak. why? because it is another semi auto rifle? because it is associated with bad? or because it was used in the recent shootings....oh wait...it wasn't. so please explain the ak47 reference.

Also. I don't shoot to relieve stress or whatever. I shoot to train and be as prepared as possible for.any situation i might find myself in. In the snow. The heat. night. etc.

As far as helping.out. I help a lot. i help the forest service. done.automotive.work for people who can't afford it/need it. I've cleaned up demolished areas over and over again. Just because i own a gun doesn't make me an ass. I just get irritated when someone talks about taking them, that's the first step before physically coming for them.

 

[87manche]

for anyone that does not understand the allure of the AR platform.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/foghorn/the-truth-about-the-ar-15-rifle/

Before the AR-15 rifle made its way onto the market gun owners needed to buy a different gun for each caliber and application.
Whether they wanted inexpensive target shooting (with cheap ammo like .22lr) or deer hunting (with a more substantial caliber like .308 Winchester), owners had to buy a different firearm for each use. Changing calibers was expensive, time consuming, and generally a one-way process.

people modify their AR to suit them, just like we modify Jeeps to suit our needs.

but hunters don't use them right?
They're just mindless killing instruments right?

get with the times, the reason the AR is so popular is because it can do anything you want with the simple addition of parts. It is the bolt on rifle of today.

 

[in4aride]

IF your post was directed to me.....i know that.Im talking about the basic plain.Jane .223 that is nothing special compared to other options. They aren't using some bad ass rifle that just releases bullets at an ungodly rate killing people. It has been just generic ar15.




but to the same folks as before.......
as far as how many people are killed. For the theatre people were pretty much stuck in location and were relatively grouped together.
mall people could move and.were not bunched together.
school they could not move at all and were intentionally grouped into the.corners.

now look at the scenarios, and death tolls. And then go back to blaming it on type of weapon.

 

[87manche]

IF your post was directed to me.....i know that.Im talking about the basic plain.Jane .223 that is nothing special compared to other options. They aren't using some bad ass rifle that just releases bullets at an ungodly rate killing people. It has been just generic ar15.



.

nope, not directed at you.

Directed at the people that would like to ban everything related to an AR and don't understand WHY it's so popular. it's popular because it's like legos for firearms, you an have one firearm and do anything with it just by changing parts.
not because it holds 30 rounds.

Ban hi cap mags and people will still own ARs with 10 round mags. Look at all the hoops people in CA go through to have them just because they're so versatile.

 

[in4aride]

Totally agree :thumbup:

 

[urban yan]

here is a thought, it happened in the US, we are dealing with it, so if you are from a country that is just one step above a 3rd world because you could supply 6K troops to a war and your only contribution to the world is finally going into the hall of fame, don't lecture us.

Be nice or this third world will cut off your oil supply.

first of all, get the terminology right if you're going to argue something. It infuriates me when people try to argue things they have no knowledge of. baby Jesus punches a kitten in heaven every time you call a magazine a "clip"

Thanks for the correction. FYI, the media calls them “Combat Clips”, but I chose to use a term -albeit an incorrect one - that was slightly less toxic.

We don't need gas guzzling 4.0 Jeeps, I guess we should make them illegal for the betterment of the world.

Autos are getting more fuel efficient all the time, so odds are my next vehicle will use less fuel. Your next weapon won't be less deadly. I need a vehicle to earn my living; odds are you don't require a gun to pay your bills (unless you’re in law enforcement, etc..). Most cars have built in obsolescence, so the gas hogs slowly make their way off the streets; guns don't go obsolete, so they simply accumulate... sometimes compounding the problem. In fact the only thing assault rifles and Jeeps have in common is that they can be replaced with alternatives. I can buy an awd wagon, and you can buy a handgun.... not as good, but it would suffice.

A few things.
I don't need a rifle with 30 rounds in a magazine to commit a mass murder. 10 rounds will work fine if I carry another 10 magazines. The shooter in CT had reloaded his pistol, so tell me how lower capacity magazines would have stopped him from simply reloading more.
Let's not even get into the fact that the repeating lever action rifle would be just as effective. Hell, it doesn't even have to run out before I could refill it's 100 year old 15 round tube. It can be operated just as quickly as a semi automatic firearm.

Burning down the building with all the doors barred is a more effective plan, we should hope that the mentally deranged don't get word of the effectiveness of fire, or we'll have to ban BIC lighters too.

There you go, I just proved to you that limiting the kinds of weapons will not matter.

Sounds like you put some serious thought into this.

Think about this... if we didn't have guns, or they got banned when they were first made because they were seen as "too dangerous for society or any normal person to own", then we wouldn't live in the country we are in today. I dunno what your problem is, but guns made America. If didn't have em we'd be the ones in Africa with no power or food etc.

Well that is true. America wasn't built with rainbows and kittens. The gun was absolutely instrumental to secure it's place as a nation, but that was then and this is now. You have a strong Military to protect your interests. America's been at the forefront of every evolving trends (from it's beginnings with pilgrams seeking religious freedom all the way it's social media revolution).... everything.... except gun laws. They haven't evolved whatsoever.

If didn't have em we'd be the ones in Africa with no power or food etc.

Wait, guns would turn America into an infertile desert and the Portuguese would sell you as slaves to the new world?

 

[urban yan]

Emily Parker, age 6, was killed in the Conn. mass murder. They have only lived in Conn. for 8 months. Her family is from the town I live in and we have mutual friends.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23404268&ni...daughter-at-press-conference&s_cid=featured-2


Family friend of the Parker's have created this memorial fund to assist the Parker family.

Donation Options For the Emilie Parker Memorial:

America First Credit Union: Emilie Parker Memorial Account #5001359. For AFCU members transfer into Share Savings. For Non-AFCU members the routing number is 324377516

PAYPAL: Use the email - [email protected]

For US Post-Mail use:
Emilie Parker Memorial
PO Box 12751
Ogden, UT 84412-2751

To Donate to all the Sandy Hook Families Use the website:
newtown.uwwesternct.org

Thank you for your outpouring of love and support. This international concern is simply amazing. Thank you.

bump again (since we're losing sight of this thread)

 

[87manche]

Be nice or this third world will cut off your oil supply.



Thanks for the correction. FYI, the media calls them “Combat Clips”, but I chose to use a term -albeit an incorrect one - that was slightly less toxic.
the media is seriously lacking in this country these days. They can't even properly identify components of firearms, yet we're supposed to trust what they say? I'd bet a very small percentage of journalists have ever even touched a firearm. Check this out:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2011/oct/5/miller-emily-gets-her-gun/
a reporter that gave firearms a chance, in DC no less.


Autos are getting more fuel efficient all the time, so odds are my next vehicle will use less fuel. Your next weapon won't be less deadly. I need a vehicle to earn my living; odds are you don't require a gun to pay your bills (unless you’re in law enforcement, etc..). Most cars have built in obsolescence, so the gas hogs slowly make their way off the streets; guns don't go obsolete, so they simply accumulate... sometimes compounding the problem. In fact the only thing assault rifles and Jeeps have in common is that they can be replaced with alternatives. I can buy an awd wagon, and you can buy a handgun.... not as good, but it would suffice.

Yet we endeavor to keep them on the road as long as possible. Arguably your boosted 4.0 is killing the world, what is more egregious?

Sounds like you put some serious thought into this.

Just proving a point. A determined individual will put thought into it. Someone determined to commit an atrocity will find a way. It took me all of 2 minutes to come up with alternatives to firearms, what do you think a deranged psychopath will come up with given more time? You really think that we can regulate dangerous things? Some basic gardening stuff and some home cleaning chemicals and I could have a pretty powerful explosive device. It's just chemistry. Should we stop teaching chemistry because I know how to make explosives and rocket fuel?

Well that is true. America wasn't built with rainbows and kittens. The gun was absolutely instrumental to secure it's place as a nation, but that was then and this is now. You have a strong Military to protect your interests. America's been at the forefront of every evolving trends (from it's beginnings with pilgrams seeking religious freedom all the way it's social media revolution).... everything.... except gun laws. They haven't evolved whatsoever.
Because our country was founded on personal responsibility. It's my responsibility to make sure that my firearms don't hurt people. Obviously this kids mom failed at keeping her firearms out of the hands of her disturbed son. Why should I pay the price for her lack of responsibility?

Wait, guns would turn America into an infertile desert and the Portuguese would sell you as slaves to the new world?

Explain to me how more regulation will stop such an event from happening again.
Explain to me how someone with 20 minutes of uninterrupted time in a building full of unarmed occupants is going to be hampered by 10 round magazines instead of 30.
Explain to me why handguns are OK, but rifles aren't. What about carbines chambered in handgun calibers, or handguns that can be converted to carbines?
What about my relic from WWII that fires a much more powerful cartridge than your average AR, has no evil "assault rifle" features and is quick to reload 8 at a time with the clips I showed above. Patton called it the greatest battle implement ever devised. Yet it would be just fine if you banned firearms based on looks.


Take your emotions out of it, emotions have no place in legislation, it's how poor laws are written and passed.

While we're at it, why is this such an emotional event over 20 children?Consider the thousands of children that die everyday in third world countries. Are their lives less valuable? Is that less of a tragedy? I don't see or hear the outcry about that, or the rally cries of "do something" about that from the masses and the media.
It disgusts me that politicians and the media are using the deaths of children to capitalize and advance an agenda, but like the former Chief of Staff said, you never want to waste a good crisis, it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't normally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow

 

[Vanimal]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=105

 

[Alienspecimen]

You guys really disappoint me. You are just dancing like little ballerinas in pink tu-tu's around the real issue here.

Lets address the elephant in the room, shall we?

It is a fact that an armed crowd is a dangerous crowd, isnt it? I think we are not going far enough. For example: if the solution is to have an armed teacher, trained to kill, that would change the tone in the classroom, wouldn't it?

Are you gonna question someone who has a gun? Are you not going to disobey someone with the privilege to carry a gun? Yes, you are going to pay attention in that class and yes, you are going to turn in your homework in time. No, you aren't gonna talk back...

But this is not the case that I really want to discuss. Here is what I had in mind: What if the teacher turns on the students? It is a high pressure profession and today students do not respect the teachers as they did in the yesteryear. Easy to flip out and go psycho and just wipe out the entire classroom. Isn't it? Bet no one thought about it. I will also bet on the fact that there will be a lot more school shootings, this time done by those deemed to protect the innocent.

I always thought that an armed crowd is a dangerous crowd (I know I am repeating myself, but wait, there is a point to it). Yes, you guessed correctly: everyone should be armed as soon as able to hold a gun. That teacher would think twice, before wiping out the classroom. Adam Lanza wouldn't dare do whatever he did if he knew that there were well trained, armed teachers, backed up by an army of students ready to shoot the first one who dares to take their life. Well, Adam might dare, but he will be the only victim...

But there is yet another benefit that no one has yet talked about: Highschool will be a pleasant experience for everyone. How do you ask? A-ha, I have an answer for you:

No more bullying. Period. Imagine this tiny, scrawny geek surrounded by buncha jocks trying to get his lunch money (or pulling some other s**t, just pick your poison...). Not an uncommon picture, right? Now picture everyone holding a gun and the only person talking is the geek, something like this: "Go ahead punks, you go ahead and take my lunch money, but at least one of you is gonna die, before I die. I just dont know which one of you yet..."

And thats my friends how we ended bullying...

 

[kastein]

Problem with that is, psychopaths don't really reason based on normal rules.

Also, I've spent a lot of time thinking about things and... here's a hypothetical situation for you.

You hear shooting. You are armed, you turn around, you see a man with a crazed look in his eyes shooting people. You draw and fire, he goes down.

Now put yourself in another armed bystander's shoes - he turns around and sees YOU holding a gun just after hearing shooting. Who does he think shot all those people?

Sure, you'll be found innocent/a hero by the security cameras, but if he does what he thinks is right, you'll be dead too. Not much consolation.

As usual real life is hard and there are no right answers. I still stand on the side of less gun control versus more, but no answer in a situation like this is clearly right, and everyone in the situation will see things differently.

 

[xcm]

^^ jump that shark Alienspecimen!

 

[XJEEPER]

My 14yr old son came home from Jr High today and informed me that a fellow 9th grader was arrested and taken to juvenile detention for evaluation for creating a "kill list".

 

[Rush Power Systems]

Be nice or this third world will cut off your oil supply.



:laugh: you got me there, but i wish you would, it could force us to drill our own oil. say how about we trade you one Socialist dictator for some oil, you guys seem to like them types in the great white north, you hoser.

 

[Rush Power Systems]

This is pointless, the sad thing is the left and media is turning this in to a gun issue and we are going to lose some or all of the 2 ND amendment.
@ alienspecimen, that is the most ridiculous thing you could say, so a teacher with a gun becomes a thug, right? Obama does not have a gun, but he is a thug, lack of charter makes thugs, not guns. Read the reports, mental defective killed himself when he was confronted with a someone with a gun.
From the info we have now there are only two things that could have stopped this, mom could have not had guns or had them locked up, however he could have gotten them another way. Or nut job could have been locked up in a mental house, and that would have stopped this, but the ACLU would have put nut job on the street.
I am a conservative capitalist, I believe Bush was one of the worst presidents we have ever had, but I would vote him king over this clown. You on the left must understand that Obama is not sad about this, he wanted this! This will give him what fast and ferrous was designed to give him, the media has used this to rally people into willingly giving up freedoms, and Obama sits back and smiles.
The difference between a government that fears the people and the other way around is the 2nd amendment.

 

[in4aride]

We won't lose anything. the people that would willingly forfeit, will. Those that fight for.the 2nd won't honor or respect anything.that infringes on it. Someone will just feel like they won.

 

[87manche]

Explain to me how more regulation will stop such an event from happening again.
Explain to me how someone with 20 minutes of uninterrupted time in a building full of unarmed occupants is going to be hampered by 10 round magazines instead of 30.
Explain to me why handguns are OK, but rifles aren't. What about carbines chambered in handgun calibers, or handguns that can be converted to carbines?
What about my relic from WWII that fires a much more powerful cartridge than your average AR, has no evil "assault rifle" features and is quick to reload 8 at a time with the clips I showed above. Patton called it the greatest battle implement ever devised. Yet it would be just fine if you banned firearms based on looks.

I hear a lot of rhetoric and not a lot of logic.
So I'll ask these same questions again.

Those that wish to take away my evil assault rifle, what say you to these questions?