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Alloy shafts or Rockwells? (long)

vintagespeed said:
Thanks Matt, great info for a Rockwell Newbie like myself. I've got some stuff to chew on now. Things I definitely dont want to do, run hubs out with adapters, shorten housing.

If I were to scrap the idea of keeping my wheels (cry) would it be worthwhile to make up some new hubs to relocate the wms further from the knuckle to allow room for wheel brakes without running the hubs out?
Click to expand...

I will have to correct myself - your measurement of 9.75 is pretty good- just eyeballing the tape tonight that seems correct it is just over 11.5" from the center of the tube and what I said about a pinon brake still holds kinda true as the pinion center is 4.5" from the top of diff- with a 10" rotor that gives a total height of ~11" with some breathing room above the top of the axle tube (not accounting for a caliper for the pinion brake...

If you leave the hubs out the wheel mount flange is only 1/2" or so from where the drive flange begins (this puts your wms distance to 79.5") with the hubs in you have the flange back on the hub about 5" and your shortened wms distance is now 69.5"...

As for brakes if you leave the hubs out you can use the OEM drums (heavy) or one of the slightly cheaper disc kits - or home brew a kit as you have 5" to play with and the knuckle normally has studs for the 12 holes on the spindle and also secures the drum backing place and spindle with one nut per stud...

I think it is do able but you can get into the same $$ ballpark by not accepting the standard (OEM'ish) set up of the rockwells and trying to adapt them to 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck parts (rims and brakes mainly) Think trail rig, pinion brake, hubs in, shaved bowl, hydro steering and go with it

Otherwise - my XJ lives just fine with warn alloys, ctm's (all in a D30 housing with D44 outers) running 38.5x14.50 SX's on 15x10 rockcrawlers (a 1.25" wheel spacer per side to clear my steering arms too!) for the last 18 months

HTH

Matt
 
Beezil said:
azman...

a front high pinion 60 out of a 79 ford f-250?

I'm no ford man, but I thought 79 f-250 front axles were all dana 44's.

have pics?
Click to expand...

Beez - where did you get D60 from - quoting his first post:

I spent the better part of this past year building a 3 link + TB front with a HP 3/4 ton D44, 14B rear, hi-steer, ARB, 38s & coilovers. It came out well with the exception of a DW problem. This could be caused by unbalanced 38" TSLs on beadlocks, but I dont know.

In order to make the front axle stout enough for the 38s I was planning on installing ChroMo axleshafts & CTMs. This will be on the order of $1200-1300 or more cause the shafts have to be made to length because the D44 is an F250 model not the F150 standard size 44.
Click to expand...

Edit:
Never mind me - I'm just slow - although I agree (still not a ford guy) that the 3/4 ton F250's will be a D44 - perhaps 8 lug but still a 44 - perhaps Azman's comes from a F350???

Still sounds shady to be so sure of a positive ID of axle and donor....

Matt
 
Last edited:
Beezil said:
azman...

a front high pinion 60 out of a 79 ford f-250?

I'm no ford man, but I thought 79 f-250 front axles were all dana 44's.

have pics?
Click to expand...

Beez, it's the HD model. Under 8500 GVW were D44, over 8500 GVW were D60. The front D60 that I had and ended up selling was from an F250. The over and under 8500 GVW stuff is an educated assumption on my part based on specs I'm familiar with on later model trucks.
 
If I lived in az, I would have to talk azman into letting me have a look......

and I'd need to work on that price a little bit, but sounds interesting!
 
mad maXJ said:
I think it boils down to 2 things: weight, and time vs. money

weight: Rockwells are HEAVY. the weight is low and unsprung. some people think this is a great thing, some think it is horrible, you decide. keep in mind that just about every competitor puts water in their tires now.

time vs. money: Rockwells will be cheaper, but require more time. Dana;s will be more expensive but require less time. Between setting up new CA mounts, subframing, etc, etc, it will take many more hours than just throwing some alloys in a D44. You decide how much your time is worth.


another alternative: why are you wanting alloys? have you been breaking shafts frequently? you can buy many, many stock shafts for the cost of going to alloys or rockwells. you can also get the Longfield u-joints (brass bushings) that are stronger than 760s, not as much as CTMs but much cheaper.
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Some good points here, Jim. You have the coilovers that should help you to run quickly through the desert, but the extra weight of the Rockwells (and lift necessary) would pretty much limit you to a rock crawler and mud runner.

The time verses money issue is a big one for most of us. The last time I checked Warn shaft prices, they were roughly $500 for the full set, plus the cost of cutting splines since you need custom length inners. You should still be around $1000 for the whole deal. Even if it's $1200-1300, the small difference between that and what it would cost you to get the Rockwells (not counting unexpected additional expenses) is insignificant compared to the extra time and effort you would have into getting the Rockwells installed. Sure, the Rockwells would be unbreakable, but would come with a lot of compromises compared with running the D44/14B.

Mad MaXJ, to run the trails that we run, those Spicer shafts don't hold up very well, especially with 38's. Even with U-joint caps welded to the yokes, the ears on the yokes shear off pretty regularly. On a JV run last month there were six broken front axles in one day, five of them with sheared off ears and welded caps......all had 33" tires and 297x/760x u-joints. The guys with Warn shafts never broke an axle or axle joint in three days of running, all with 35" and larger tires. Even if you carry spares, it's not fun to have to stop and change them.
 
Beezil said:
If I lived in az, I would have to talk azman into letting me have a look......

and I'd need to work on that price a little bit, but sounds interesting!
Click to expand...

The one I had I got $900 for. It went into the rear of a friends XJ running geared buggy. Not a bad setup.....HPD44 front, HPD60 rear w/steer, 38's, 4.0L, AW4 and NP231 in a tubed buggy. :) :)
 
Goatman said:
....The last time I checked Warn shaft prices, they were roughly $500 for the full set, plus the cost of cutting splines since you need custom length inners. You should still be around $1000 for the whole deal....
Click to expand...

I think Goatman is getting used to my craziness, not even a "WTF Jim"?

The hub problem is the only real limiting factor I've found. The Rockwell is maybe 150-200 lbs more than a D60. Not that much really, but enough to have to build some kind of subframe or box the hell out of the unibody. My junk wont do high desert speeds, too much stuff falls off. :)

I guess if I can get Warns for $500 for a full set (???) then I'd do that & get the inners splined, I remember paying ALOT for my D30 inners. It's just hard to dump more into an already expensive front axle, but the ARB sure is nice.

I'll chew on this awhile more I guess. Richard's guys got me all scared of breakage after I heard about the long day in JV, lol.

From what I've learned so far it looks like 1 ton brakes are not possible without a smaller spindle/stub combo (dumb) which means I'd have to sell my wheel/tire combo. I'm not really ready to do that right now. The axles I could live with, but I gotta keep the bling bling!
 
Have you looked into your other options yet? Mog 404's? Volvo C303's? Both of these axles come with selectable lockers, the mogs are geared a little low though. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

As for the shafts, you only have to get one side cut down and it only costs $55 to do. The cheapest I've found shafts was $575, add $300 for CTM's. I don't run CTM's and have beaten the living piss out of mine with 38.5 SXs. Although it has to be getting close for those 760's to explode. I'm going to make some solid bushings and keep running 760's and throw some Warn hubs on until the middle of the summer (I've got another expensive build I'm embarking on). I do run Warn shafts as I was busting stock ones constantly.

I wish I could add some tech on the Rockwells, but I have never seen them as a viable option in anything other than a tube buggy or a fullsize.

Sean
 
OneTonXJ said:
Have you looked into your other options yet? Mog 404's? Volvo C303's? Both of these axles come with selectable lockers, the mogs are geared a little low though. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Sean
Click to expand...

Now that would be sweet.
 
d60's in the 3/4 ton f250 was an option. It came with a snow plow package.
 
JB,

You missed another GREAT weekend of wheeling. The best trip to the Hammers yet this season!

You should wheel your junk and STOP changing it! :D

hinkley
 
Mark Hinkley said:
JB,

You missed another GREAT weekend of wheeling. The best trip to the Hammers yet this season!

You should wheel your junk and STOP changing it! :D

hinkley
Click to expand...

I was waiting for that.

-jb
 
Jim, I would go back down to a set of 37 mtr's and get the alloy's and ctm's.
If your going to keep the sheet metal of your junk even close to straight 37's
will more then get the job done. You missed another great run up outer limits Sunday. Get out on the trail and keep the thing out of the garage for the next 6 month's.
 
az, if you remember, I am interested in seeing those pics.

do you know if it has the same dimensions as the 44? meaning tube length and pumkin offset....

I have too much money tioed up in my 44, its not like I'm gonna go cruising for these things, just curious.
 
I was going to do this...put Rockwells in my XJ.After getting the Rockwells and doing some measuring it seemed like it would be too much of a pain in the ass.You would need major frame and roll cage modification to support them.The Rockwells are HUGE!!I dont know if running 38's with them is a do-able option either.You would kill the clearance under the pumpkin with that size tire.Rockwells are better suited for 44's or bigger.I have seen XJ's w/ Rockwells so it is possible.I'll stick with my 9inch rear and HP44 front combo,nice and light and simple.I know Pig on the Pirate board had Superior shafts(any length) and CTM combo on sale for $1000 or $1100 awhile back.
 
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