98: removing airbags

[RichP]

I would go with pulling the fuses if you fear them deploying off road. As I understand it the airbags are not even enabled untill 35mph as they will do more damage to the passenger than if they don't deploy. The FSM has a full chapter dedicated to the airbag systems, 8E section I think it is. The do have some handling warnings. On the steering wheel when you put it down put the steering wheel down with airbag facing up, if it does go off from static elec it won't shoot the steering wheel up in the air, carry it with the airbag away from you. Store in cool dry place in sealed bag, stuff like that.
I just kind of went thru the drill when I did my cluster swap today, after I got the new cluster in and reconnected the battery I layed the driver seat all the way back THEN stuck the key in and started it up.
The steering wheel bag has a clock spring mechanism in it that requires some special handling also. Nope, not worth pulling it if this jeep is to be used on road. I'm suprised the dealer won't put the switch in, though you do lose one of your drink holders when they do it...

 

[JohnJohn]

Thanks for the tips guys. The rig will mostly be used off road. My concern was dropping off a ledge and boncing the XJ. I wouldn't be concerned too much if my five year old wasn't sitting there. I know airbags at any speed can kill small children so that is what has/had me worried. If it is true that the bags will not trigger unless over 35mph I will leave them in and pull the fuses while offroad, just to be sure.

 

[Barger]

Can't help with a part number for a switch, but our TJ has a keyed switch to disable the Airbag.

I thought this was mandatory on newer models :dunno:

You might be able to get the switch out of a wrecked jeep.

 

[Neil]

Check with the dealer, some vehicles deactivate the air bag when the 4wd system is engaged. I don't think that Jeep is one of them, but check anyway. I used to do subcontract work for the major auto insurers. They will hammer you if you have done anything to disable the air bags. We had a medical claim that was denied because the lady failed to maintain the air bags(the service light was on) and they did not deploy during the accident. Just food for thought. I would carry some blown fuses and put them in place of the air bag fuses when off road. Then claim ignorance to the whole thing if you get into an accident.

 

[Bryan C.]

This if from a firefighter on accident scenes. im telling you from a saftey standpoint from my technical manuals anywhere from 5 seconds to 30 minutes for a fully discharded capaciter.
if they are saying 2 minutes, then wait 2 minutes. I'd rather wait over night and know for damn sure its dead.
Have you ever witnessed or been at the recieving end of an airbag? thats not a beast i want in my hands when it goes off.

Better safe than sorry for sure. At the dealer I work at we occasionally blow off the airbags that we have changed out. We even screwed around one day and blew an airbag off with the bag facing down. That sucker went at least 25 ft in the air. Fun to watch, but not something we do on a regular basis.

At our local Chryslertraining center during a passive restraint class, the instructor had a working airbag system set up on a bench. One of the activities we had was to hit the impact sensor with a hammer and see how much force was required to set it off. It required quite a bit of a blow to set it off. Interesting anyways. I am not scared of the airbag in my Jeep going off while off-roading, but it is something to keep in mind when playing around.

Bryan

 

[JEEPZZ]

Last EJS in Moab, i saw a TJ do 1/4 roll onto it's side on the Z-turn on Moab Rim. Both airbags deployed. I (as was many other onlookers) was surprised due to the fact the the roll wasn't violent and the bags still popped.

As for the XJ passenger side disable switch, I think it was Hinkley that had quite a bit of info on it. You will need fill out federal forms though and then find a dealership that's willing to do the work installing it.

edit>> here's more info on the factory disable switch:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8402
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7254

 

[Buck Jackson]

airbag or no, don't let him sit up front.

Thinking of liability issues... Allowing a five year old child to sit in the front seat of a moving vehicle is (depending on where you live) illegal and in my opinion irresponsible, regardless of child safety restraints or airbags. My boy wants to sit in the front while offroading too, but I just tell him, not until you're 11, or big enough to not be killed by the airbag or a side impact, its just too bloody dangerous. As well, depending on your locality and how they deal with such cases, you could be held legally liable for child neglect or possibly abuse if you get into an accident and your child is injured, and it comes out that you allowed him in the front seat. This might seem a bit extremist, but why take the chance? I used to be a child protection worker, and believe me, I have seen kids removed from parents for less.
Take it or leave it

 

[Bryan C.]

Last EJS in Moab, i saw a TJ do 1/4 roll onto it's side on the Z-turn on Moab Rim. Both airbags deployed. I (as was many other onlookers) was surprised due to the fact the the roll wasn't violent and the bags still popped.

As for the XJ passenger side disable switch, I think it was Hinkley that had quite a bit of info on it. You will need fill out federal forms though and then find a dealership that's willing to do the work installing it.

edit>> here's more info on the factory disable switch:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8402
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7254

I didn't even think about the on-off switch idea. I found the Chrysler part number for the driver and passenger on-off switch add on package, but the part has been discontinued. I ran a parts inquiry and found no depots or dealers have it and there are none on order from the supplier. The number is 05013502AC, list price is $261.

The on-off switch has been an issue with Chrysler lately as they have been getting sued by people who turn the air bag off and forget to turn it back on. Then they wreck the car and sue Chrysler because the air bag didn't work.

Bryan

I have access to the Mopar parts system online. The air bag on-off switches are no longer being sold. Not sure why. You would need to find one on a wreck in a junk yard or buy one used.

I have installed them on a few customer cars at the dealer I work at. You do need to have NHTSA authorization and have them installed by a certified dealership technician at the dealer.

Bryan

 

[deke]

when you are smashing the sensors with a hammer what you are doing is destroying them causeing the electrical contact. they are DE-celeration sensors. they detect G forces.
by the time the sensor is destroyed in an accident, its way to late to deploy.
im not telling you not to have you son in the front seat. that is your choice as a parent.
just trying to make you informed about the issue at hand as i know it

 

[JohnJohn]

Thinking of liability issues... Allowing a five year old child to sit in the front seat of a moving vehicle is (depending on where you live) illegal and in my opinion irresponsible, regardless of child safety restraints or airbags. My boy wants to sit in the front while offroading too, but I just tell him, not until you're 11, or big enough to not be killed by the airbag or a side impact, its just too bloody dangerous. As well, depending on your locality and how they deal with such cases, you could be held legally liable for child neglect or possibly abuse if you get into an accident and your child is injured, and it comes out that you allowed him in the front seat. This might seem a bit extremist, but why take the chance? I used to be a child protection worker, and believe me, I have seen kids removed from parents for less.
Take it or leave it

Please see my first post, the child only rides in the front seat while off road. I don't believe it's illegal in Colorado for children to ride in the front seat, as long as they are in the proper child seat. Can't imagine that it is illegal in any state. Family's with single cab trucks or two seater convertibles couldn't drive with kids?

I understand you point though. It is much safer to let children sit in the back. While off road I don't see safety issue though, except for the airbag issue, hence my question.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Bryan C.]

when you are smashing the sensors with a hammer what you are doing is destroying them causeing the electrical contact. they are DE-celeration sensors. they detect G forces.

Have you ever taken one aprt. What I saw was a small weight riding on a rod with a spring holding it away from the electrical contacts. There are other types, but this is the most common type that I have seen. Just depends on which way you hit it with the hammer. No damage was done to the sensor to cause the bag to deploy.

I have heard first hand reports of Chrysler technicians setting off airbags while servicing the systems while listening to the radio or while running the AC to keep them cool. The 860 recall for the 98 XJs had several reports of air bags going off while the tech was working on them. The most common act was usung an impact gun to remove the module hold down bolts. One story was told of a guy replacing the air bag control module in a full size Dodge van with the customer waiting in the lounge and ready to go on a weeklong camping trip. The technician was listening to the radio while removing the module. When he used his 3/8 impact gun to remove the bolts, both the air bags went off and damn near killed the guy. He took a direct hit from the drivers airbag to the side of his head. He got lucky, but he was also terminated for negligence.

Don't believe the "only will deploy at speeds above 35 mph" theory. The impact sensor inside the control module is very sensitive to any sort of shock. Not just deceleration forces.

Next time you are at the junkyard, look inside an impact sensor or control module and see for yourself what the actual firing mechanism is, it will be enlightening. These things aren't that complicated.

Bryan

 

[ryurabbit]

98 No Impact Sensor!

The 98 XJ does not have an impact sensor at all, that is one of the things they fixed. His XJ has a g-force sensor or a decelleration sensor described quite accurately as a weight and spring on a rod. The impact sensors you are talking about were from older vehicles wich is a moot point anyway. The older vehicles used solid rocket fuel for deployment, then the car companies were being sued for burn and too rapid a deployment. They are now nitrogen canisters that deploy them and deceleration sensors.

By the way it is cool to put one of these in a rim stacked at an angle and shoot them off into the distance. Greatest distance achieved 43 feet!

Rabbit

 

[Jason A-33]

Last EJS in Moab, i saw a TJ do 1/4 roll onto it's side on the Z-turn on Moab Rim. Both airbags deployed. I (as was many other onlookers) was surprised due to the fact the the roll wasn't violent and the bags still popped.

Air bag deployment is very odd. When we rolled our '99 Dodge V-10, thanks to black ice, we were going about 50 MPH and made hard impart on the pasanger side and rolled 3 times on the other side of the freeway. The front end never made direct impact and the Air bags never went off. :dunno: The insurance company never even mentioned it.

 

[deke]

look im just offering my two bits. you know the whole purpose of the boards. im giving you in info as i have first hand knowledge with interacting with this things after then have been in car wrecks. i am NOT an airbag tech.
but why play with a loaded gun if you dont have to?

 

[trailrunner]

air bag

just pull the fuse,but l wheel my 99 an over some very hargcore trails an have yet had a bag deploy an the system still works.

 

[Bryan C.]

look im just offering my two bits. you know the whole purpose of the boards. im giving you in info as i have first hand knowledge with interacting with this things after then have been in car wrecks. i am NOT an airbag tech.
but why play with a loaded gun if you dont have to?

This is a good discussion, I just want to keep it on track with the tech info. You do bring a different perspective, which is what this forum is for. arty:


Bryan