wj brakes on xj

[walgren]

Hey guys I got a small question about the WJ brakes on a XJ. Im wanting to put manual hubs on my 90 XJ and also remove the disconnect. my question is will the aftermarket hubs for a XJ work on a WJ knuckle or do I need to look for hubs for a WJ Grand Cherokee? Thx

 

[yossarian19]

...
That's a tough one.
I'd ask Warn.
There are a bunch of variables in there.

 

[markw]

It's been done, search. Cal's done it. race jeep is warn with wj knuckles.

 

[Root Moose]

I have WJ knuckles with the Warn 5x5.5" kit. Works with CJ7 rotors after whisking a touch off the caliper mount to recentre the caliper on the rotor.

Honestly, unless you've done every conceivable modification possible to your Jeep don't bother with the hub kit. There are better things to spend money on.

 

[cal]

I have done it a few times.

If you have to ask the question DO NOT DO IT.

The 'easy' route uses the CJ rotors, which are too thin. When the pads wear down, you will spit a piston out of your caliper.

The 'more difficult' route uses WJ rotors, and it moves the rotor inboard to where it basically rubs against your steering. Super tight. Only way to run any steering is a 3/4" rod end with a bent tie rod.


Just run unit bearings....

 

[yossarian19]

Really seems like the hub conversions are a solution without a problem, unless you just *need* to run 5x5.5 up front or have crazy front DS vibes you can't cure another way.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

so 1000$ on WJ swap(Ive done it-it was great amazing brakes, but not worth 1000$) and over 1000$ on warn hub kit?
not to mention gears lockers, and more?(+1500)

you do realize you can build a much stronger hp44 with lockouts and breaks and stronger all around for much less than all of that?

 

[cal]

you do realize you can build a much stronger hp44 with lockouts and breaks and stronger all around for much less than all of that?

Except that the 44 would have weaker spindles, weaker stubs, and less brakes..

 

[Root Moose]

The 'easy' route uses the CJ rotors, which are too thin.

This^^^

Really seems like the hub conversions are a solution without a problem, unless you just *need* to run 5x5.5 up front or have crazy front DS vibes you can't cure another way.

Again, this^^^

If I had my time over again I'd do custom 44 or stick with 5x4.5 and unit bearings.

 

[yossarian19]

Except that the 44 would have weaker spindles, weaker stubs, and less brakes..

Yeah... the HP30 vs HP44 vs "Screwit, go 60s if you're going" debate.

 

[cal]

Yeah... the HP30 vs HP44 vs "Screwit, go 60s if you're going" debate.

Meh. How about "screw it and build what you want".

You can do warn hubs on WJ knuckles, I have done it 3 times in 3 different ways, and would not do any of them again. The best of the 3 would be what is on 4643, the only downside is how much work it is, and how close the rotor gets to the steering.

 

[yossarian19]

Meh. How about "screw it and build what you want".

Yup.

 

[zachandandy]

But guys like Jon and I interject from experience that what you want may not end up being what you want and is uber expensive. Wj swap and warn free spin kit with gears and a locker will cost nearly as much as a true hi 9 front or 609 and it will still be a dana 30?

 

[IdahoEagle]

How does WJ knuckles have stronger brakes and spindles than a real 44? It might have twin piston calipers, but so do a lot of the older Ford 44s.
And the spindle strength thing... With bearings about twice the size and mounted with 5 or 6 studs versus 3 bolts, I don't see how the XJ/ WJ "spindle" is stronger...

 

[cal]

But guys like Jon and I interject from experience that what you want may not end up being what you want and is uber expensive. Wj swap and warn free spin kit with gears and a locker will cost nearly as much as a true hi 9 front or 609 and it will still be a dana 30?

And the rest of us do not interject from experience?

I have built dana 30's, super 30's with WJ, super 30's with WJ and warn hub kits, dana 44's, dana 44's with 30 outers WJ knuckles and a warn hub kit, and a dana 60.

The only front end I haven't built at this point is a 9/609.



We are all interjecting from experience. And my experience tells me that every configuration has its benefit, where "you can build a 44 for less" tells none of the benefits and is quite often wrong.

 

[cal]

How does WJ knuckles have stronger brakes and spindles than a real 44? It might have twin piston calipers, but so do a lot of the older Ford 44s.
And the spindle strength thing... With bearings about twice the size and mounted with 5 or 6 studs versus 3 bolts, I don't see how the XJ/ WJ "spindle" is stronger...

A dana 44 and the warn hub kit (where the spindle comment came from) use the same bearings. Being that the are the exact same bearing, they are far from about twice the size.

But.. the hub kit spindles are chromoly, and better designed than standard dana 44 stuff. A broken stub on a warn hub kit won't swell a spindle the way a dana 44 does.

That broken stub is less likely too, because the warn 30 spline shafts are considerably stronger than 19 spline dana 44 stuff.

3 bolt vs 6 bolt spindles is also a non issue, since both spindles are hubcentric and not supported by the bolts. They are just there to stop the spindle from falling off.


And yes, if you want to go to 8 lug and 16.5/17" wheels, you CAN get dual piston calipers on the ford dana 44 stuff, but then you're talking about new wheels, new 8 lug rear end, slippery slope.

 

[yossarian19]

So what we're saying is, there are pro's and con's to any / every axle you want to build, and what's right for some folks isn't right for everyone?

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

A dana 44 and the warn hub kit (where the spindle comment came from) use the same bearings. Being that the are the exact same bearing, they are far from about twice the size.

But.. the hub kit spindles are chromoly, and better designed than standard dana 44 stuff. A broken stub on a warn hub kit won't swell a spindle the way a dana 44 does.

That broken stub is less likely too, because the warn 30 spline shafts are considerably stronger than 19 spline dana 44 stuff.

3 bolt vs 6 bolt spindles is also a non issue, since both spindles are hubcentric and not supported by the bolts. They are just there to stop the spindle from falling off.


And yes, if you want to go to 8 lug and 16.5/17" wheels, you CAN get dual piston calipers on the ford dana 44 stuff, but then you're talking about new wheels, new 8 lug rear end, slippery slope.

i think another important note is unsprung weight...

i can throw a D30 over my shoulder, but had to wrestle my 44 across the ground when i was going to build one. a buddy trussed and gusseted the snot out of his 30, and all said and done, it only weighed 25# more than a bare housing. still lighter than a 44, and considerably lighter than the heavy half 44, the only one id run. there is much to be argued in the way of unsprung weight.

So what we're saying is, there are pro's and con's to any / every axle you want to build, and what's right for some folks isn't right for everyone?

no...

hes saying that the D44 spindle and warm spindle are completely different animals.

 

[yossarian19]

You read the thread your way, I'll read it mine...

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Ok So I can see your argument on spindle strength . we could say the 30 gets the advantage here, but it seems marginal to me for all due to the high cost of the kit.

The 8 lug argument is not the greatest. Its pretty well known about the Tbird caliper swap on the hp44s though to clear 15" steelies with minimal grinding (No problem clearing on mine) . They arguably pump as much fluid as dual piston fronts if not more and were stupid cheap compared to WJ brakes so you can retain 5 on 5.5. 900$ on WJ stuff or 40$ on t bird calipers . (and another 85$ on custom brakelines to fit them, but you were gonna spend money on new brakelines anyway so that could be argued no…). advantage 44.

If you are going to spend 1600$ on a yukon hub kit for a d30 you can spend 1750$ for 30 spline RCV kit with 30 spline hub gears for your 44. I would say thats advantage 44.


So walgren, are you 100% set on spending 2800$ (1600 for hub kit and 900 for WJ brake swap , not to mention you'll want chromo inners at that point add 300$ for that too) WJ knuckles and aftermarket hub kit for the 30 ? +gears/locker ? at 35s and under you will probably be ok.

It sounds to me like you need to build that 30, put 3500$+ into and wheel it for a few years, maybe it will last a year, maybe 10 years. Mine lasted 2 runs after it was fully polished but up to that point I had gone through maybe 3 to 4 different dana 30s over about 8 years, not too bad. they are cheap….When it spits out the R&P after you polish it though, that will piss you off, you will probably realize you could have built a hp44 for cheaper and have the additional strength. I ran dana 30s with no problems for years, so they do last. go up to 36/37s/39s and other crap and you will not be as lucky . What tire size are you planning on running ? I regret not building a 44 in the first place though.