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  #16  
Old January 30th, 2020, 11:01
5.9longarmXJ's Avatar
5.9longarmXJ 5.9longarmXJ is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Oh and of course 4500
Dodge versions of course
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  #17  
Old February 5th, 2020, 16:02
jmg222 jmg222 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

easiest bet by far is an LS swap-- why shy away from it? ls-1's are pretty cheap, and part are plentiful. Hell, do a vortec. If you put a 350 in, you're going to do just about the same amount of work, for something not as powerful.

I did a 350 swap... got the block practically for free, and regretted it. depending on what 350 you get, it won't be all that much more powerful than what you have.. And if you go for a modern 350 (a zz6-- which I ended up swapping in- -400hp), it'll cost you just about as much as a new ls-1.

As for 5.2/5.9 -- believe it or not, it's a royal PITA to swap. Chevy is far simpler, mostly because the adapters are far more readily available for a chevy. And I had a 1998 grand Cherokee with a 5.9. Yeah, it was a great motor at the time, but still, only had around 220 hp/300ish tq. it was good for the time, can't touch a modern small block.

My heartfelt advice -- stroke it. You'll get a bunch more power, won't have to deal with the headache of swapping.

But if you insist on swapping -- take a look at novack (https://www.novak-adapt.com/ ) and check out their "research" tab. They are the best resource for XJ motor swaps, and sell every adapter you'll need for the swap.\



Edit-- by the way, here's what novack says about 5.2/5.9 swaps -- (setting aside the fact that they are dramatically underpowered compared to a modern zz6/ls motor):

Quote:
Jeep Engine Swap Comparison
We get asked occasionally what our opinions are of the Mopar V8 swaps into Jeeps. Some individuals think they must be easier since Jeep is now a Chrysler company. The swaps are not as intuitive as this would suggest, and on a whole, it is usually going to be easier and more economical to install a GM V8.
318 and 360 swaps into Jeeps are not as well documented as Chevy and Ford V8 swaps, the interest and momentum is rising and a body of knowledge is deepening on the subject. These good engines and worthy of consideration if you have one of these engines on hand. The installer should keep in mind that these engines, while affordable, do generally cost more to install and to work on than the Small Block Chevy and Ford counterparts. For those who understand and are comfortable with these good motors, this is usually not a significant setback.
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Daily drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrackHawk; stock (for now)

Trail ride: 1988 XJ: Motor/plumbing/electrical: '19 ZZ6 350 sbc, 420HP/405 lb-ft; holly performer EPS, Terminator EFI, headers, novak aluminum radiator; MSD ignition
Drive train: d30 front, F8.8 rear, 4.11 gears, np242 transfer case, rusty under-armor; fully locked with detroit lockers; Chevy 700r4 tranny, 35" MT's

Last edited by jmg222; February 5th, 2020 at 16:07.
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  #18  
Old February 7th, 2020, 07:54
VAhasnoWAVES VAhasnoWAVES is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

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Originally Posted by Skeeter View Post
I would like to stay away from the LS swaps due to costing an arm and a leg.

Any and all info would help.
HP per dollar... an LS is your cheapest bet.
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  #19  
Old February 7th, 2020, 10:57
jmg222 jmg222 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by VAhasnoWAVES View Post
HP per dollar... an LS is your cheapest bet.
Yeah, I don't understand this notion that an LS swap is prohibitively expensive. if you're going with a 8 cylinder, and Ls is the way to go. you can get one from a junk yard from a couple of grand. Heck, a brand new, turn key LS-3 direct from GM (https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/ls3) (430hp/425 lb ft tq) is $9-10kk

If for whatever reason you don't want to do an LS, a brand new 350 zz6, turnkey (complete with EFI, oil pan, distro, heck, even the spark plugs and wires) direct from GM, 420hp/405 lp ft tq, (https://www.chevrolet.com/performanc...6-efi-turn-key) is around $7k (current price on jegs). If that seems high.. keep in mind you're not buying a single accessory -- not even the starter motor -- and it has a warranty on it. I ended up doing a zz6 motor, because I had already done circa 1988 350 swap, and wanted to get the zz6 shot block and use some of my current accessories. Otherwise, I would have done an LS in a heartbeat.

If you go the 350/zz6 route, feel free to IM me. You may be better off getting the short block, as the intake they use for the EFI is kind of on the tall side, and may not clear the Cherokee's hood. like I said, I went with the short block, used an edlebrock shorty intake, and used a holly terminator efi (though the EFI gm gives you on the zz6 is pretty sweet, sequential port injection, terminator is TBI, but, it works perfectly fine.. obviously you'd want EFI for offroading)
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Daily drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrackHawk; stock (for now)

Trail ride: 1988 XJ: Motor/plumbing/electrical: '19 ZZ6 350 sbc, 420HP/405 lb-ft; holly performer EPS, Terminator EFI, headers, novak aluminum radiator; MSD ignition
Drive train: d30 front, F8.8 rear, 4.11 gears, np242 transfer case, rusty under-armor; fully locked with detroit lockers; Chevy 700r4 tranny, 35" MT's

Last edited by jmg222; February 13th, 2020 at 18:53.
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  #20  
Old February 13th, 2020, 15:10
Number21 Number21 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Why in the world would you go through that much money and trouble just to install some stupid antique boat anchor like a 305? Or even a 350! Move away from the antiques. If you want that old crap just put another 4.0 or stroker in. Cheap/easy/bolt in. If you want an antique go buy something classic.

If you want something different than a 4.0 then do something DIFFERENT...like an LS, a modern diesel, etc. A modern engine, not something designed 60+ years ago!

Personally I think the 4.0 is perfect in an XJ, plenty of power, plenty reliable, reasonable mileage - and it bolts right in! If you need more than that build a stroker and/or add 5lbs of turbo boost. It will still be reliable and could burn the tires.
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  #21  
Old February 13th, 2020, 16:13
jmg222 jmg222 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

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Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
Why in the world would you go through that much money and trouble just to install some stupid antique boat anchor like a 305? Or even a 350! M.
350 isn't an antique.. depending on what you get. google zz6. Yes, it's based off the original 350 design, but it has modern heads, fuel injection, and for the money -- $7k, you get a complete block from GM, including ac compressor, intake, fuel injection, spark plugs, and 420hp. Some people don't like doing an LS motor because they're intimidated by the computers (I'm a huge fan myself), so the zz6 350 is a reasonable compromise.

I agree going to a junk yard and grabbing a 350 is a waste. 305? I didn't see that anywhere... why on earth anyone would ever consider a 305 is beyond me.
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Daily drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrackHawk; stock (for now)

Trail ride: 1988 XJ: Motor/plumbing/electrical: '19 ZZ6 350 sbc, 420HP/405 lb-ft; holly performer EPS, Terminator EFI, headers, novak aluminum radiator; MSD ignition
Drive train: d30 front, F8.8 rear, 4.11 gears, np242 transfer case, rusty under-armor; fully locked with detroit lockers; Chevy 700r4 tranny, 35" MT's
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  #22  
Old February 13th, 2020, 16:35
Number21 Number21 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

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Originally Posted by jmg222 View Post
305? I didn't see that anywhere... why on earth anyone would ever consider a 305 is beyond me.
Read the third post. And when he says 350 I doubt he's talking about a ZZ6. Even then, yes, those are obsolete engines. LS is better for less money. Lighter weight, more power, better gas mileage, and longer engine life. ZZ6 still has electronics like an LS. And they are REALLY expensive. I suspect if somebody would even SAY 305 they likely aren't too knowledgeable about motors. Stand alone computer systems for the LS are pretty easy to get and use these days, certainly not any more complicated than a fuel injected ZZ6.
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  #23  
Old February 13th, 2020, 18:51
jmg222 jmg222 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
And when he says 350 I doubt he's talking about a ZZ6.
IF someone is talking about a new 350, they're talking about a zz6. It's the only crate 350 motor worth talking about.. so, I disagree on that one. MAybe he was talking about going to a junk yard and grabbing a 350.. if that's the case, then I agree, that's almost never worth doing.

Quote:
Even then, yes, those are obsolete engines. LS is better for less money.
\

nope. The zz6 is neck and neck at 420 hp, and it's a bargain. You can get a fully loaded, turn-key, ready to run (ok, no oil) zz6 motor for $7,800 from jegg. Thjat comes with EVERYTHING. the intake, starter motor, spark plugs, wires, crap, it even comes with the water pump and an ac compressor. All attached and ready to go. A long block for $6,400 -- still includes the intake and a bunch of accessories.. zz6 is 420hp, 405 tq.

A comparable ls CRATE motor, say, the ls3, starts at $7,500. At that price, you're getting a long block. No electronics. By the time you're done, you're easily kissing $9-$10k. And the LS3 isn't that much more powerful -- 430hp/425tq (ok, fine, it has a much flatter curve)

MY point is.. yeah, the ls is a better motor, no question. But the zz6 has a lot going for it, it has a ton of brand new tech in it, and has it's place. IF I were doing a brand new install, I'd without a doubt go with an LS motor. But if budget were an issue, and if I didn't want to mess with electronics, (which I have zero issues with, but some old timers do), I'd would not discount the zz6.

as for lasting longer... huh? where'd you get that one from? keep a 350 well maintained, it'll last just as long.



Quote:
ZZ6 still has electronics like an LS. And they are REALLY expensive.
so, dealt with the expensive part, as for electronics.. zz6 can be bought with a carb, you can drop a your own intake and add a self-contained tbi, and even if you buy the efi Crate unit, the only "electronics" it comes with is a self contained box, with a chevy-tuned curve, specific to the zz6.... Read some articles and interviews from chevy engineers talking about the zz6.. they really pulled out the stops, squeezing out every bit of performance from this block, and it has some really impressive power right out of the crate. No laptops, no tuning. So, no, I don't agree that comparing the "electronics" of a zz6 is the same as comparing the "electronics" of an ls.

Again.. I agree with you that the ls is the better motor... but... the zz6 is amazing for what they've done with it, and should not be discounted. I know a ton of guys that are getting it.
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Daily drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrackHawk; stock (for now)

Trail ride: 1988 XJ: Motor/plumbing/electrical: '19 ZZ6 350 sbc, 420HP/405 lb-ft; holly performer EPS, Terminator EFI, headers, novak aluminum radiator; MSD ignition
Drive train: d30 front, F8.8 rear, 4.11 gears, np242 transfer case, rusty under-armor; fully locked with detroit lockers; Chevy 700r4 tranny, 35" MT's
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  #24  
Old February 13th, 2020, 20:16
Number21 Number21 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg222 View Post
IF someone is talking about a new 350, they're talking about a zz6.
If someone suggests using a 305 or a 350 in the same sentence, they have no idea what ZZ6 means.

Additionally, there is NO reason you need a brand new crate motor in a 20 year old 300,000 mile Jeep. You can get a really nice low mileage LS engine from a wrecking yard for peanuts with every accessory. Even if you gave it to a shop to rebuild it will be far, far cheaper than a crate motor. Expensive crate motors are for nicely restored expensive vehicles.

Either way if you use anything other than a 4.0, you're going to be spending a hell of a lot of money on a vehicle that is worth very very little. Even if you got the engine for free!

Judging by the lack of response from the OP in over a month, I doubt this project will ever happen.
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  #25  
Old February 13th, 2020, 20:22
jmg222 jmg222 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
If someone suggests using a 305 or a 350 in the same sentence, they have no idea what ZZ6 means.

Additionally, there is NO reason you need a brand new crate motor in a 20 year old 300,000 mile Jeep. You can get a really nice low mileage LS engine from a wrecking yard for peanuts with every accessory. Even if you gave it to a shop to rebuild it will be far, far cheaper than a crate motor. Expensive crate motors are for nicely restored expensive vehicles.

Either way if you use anything other than a 4.0, you're going to be spending a hell of a lot of money on a vehicle that is worth very very little. Even if you got the engine for free!

Judging by the lack of response from the OP in over a month, I doubt this project will ever happen.

you're probably right rep.
If you're talking junkyard motor to junkyard motor, then sure, I'd put the effort into an LS any day of the week.

I don't agree with you though on there being "NO reason" to put a brand new crate motor in a 20 year old jeep... I've done dozens of junkyard swaps, and there's always some bullcrap that sets you back and costs you money. and you're talking as if the motor is welded into the truck -- flip and burn the truck, take out the motor. put it in a new truck. you're going to swap over all your nice drive train goodies anyway, just do the motor at the same time. All good.

Anyway, just a difference of opinion on that one. I guess I've gotten to the point where my time and aggravation is worth far more than a few $$ thousand, I've just had it with junkyard crap, been there, done that. Dropped a brand new, crate zz6 in my **30** plus, 200,000 mile 88 cherokee, and I couldn't be happier.
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Daily drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrackHawk; stock (for now)

Trail ride: 1988 XJ: Motor/plumbing/electrical: '19 ZZ6 350 sbc, 420HP/405 lb-ft; holly performer EPS, Terminator EFI, headers, novak aluminum radiator; MSD ignition
Drive train: d30 front, F8.8 rear, 4.11 gears, np242 transfer case, rusty under-armor; fully locked with detroit lockers; Chevy 700r4 tranny, 35" MT's
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  #26  
Old February 13th, 2020, 20:23
Number21 Number21 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Forgot to mention - going to a carb would be a ridiculous downgrade and also illegal in every state. You may get away with it, but its a crime and will never pass any kind of inspection or emissions test.

It is however perfectly legal to put a newer engine with the same or better emissions controls.
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  #27  
Old February 13th, 2020, 20:31
jmg222 jmg222 is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

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Originally Posted by Number21 View Post
Forgot to mention - going to a carb would be a ridiculous downgrade and also illegal in every state. You may get away with it, but its a crime and will never pass any kind of inspection or emissions test.

It is however perfectly legal to put a newer engine with the same or better emissions controls.
That's also absolutely wrong. It depends on what state you're in.

In NY for example, it is illegal to swap in *anything* that wasn't originally offered with the vehicle, that year or newer. So, if jeep offered a carb'd 6 in 88, i'd be allowed to swap it. an i6 HO? totally legal. v8? completely illegal.

EXCEPT, there is an exception for 20 (now 25 I think) year old cars. Long as it passes a safety inspection, you're good. No emission testing on 25 or older cars. on the computers, if it's over 25 years, it doesn't even trigger the DMV camera (yeah, there's a camera), or ask you what motor is in the vehicle (on anything else, it gives you a listing of available motors for that make/model.. if there's ANYTHING in the car that wasn't offered, you can lose your inspection license for saying it has a i6 when, for example, it has a v8).


so, when I originally had a junkyard crap 350 in my 20 year old xj with a carb, back in '09, it passed inspection with zero issues. and I'm not talking about, go to a guy you know and give him a bottle kind of passing, I'm talking drop into a jiffy lube, don't know anyone, it passed. Zero issues. CA has exactly the same laws, as do CT and Ma. I'm not sure of the rest of the NE, never wheeled in any other states.


Your state may be different, but your statement is a dramatic over generalization.

Now.. if you had said there's zero reason because it's a downgrade and stopped right there, I'd just agree with you. I only mentioned carb becuase some of the old timers have a thing against efi. I don't. I only have carbs on my old 'vette and buick, and that's only becuase they're vintage and I'm keeping them stock. Everything else -- efi. TPI even if I can swing it.
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Daily drive: 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee TrackHawk; stock (for now)

Trail ride: 1988 XJ: Motor/plumbing/electrical: '19 ZZ6 350 sbc, 420HP/405 lb-ft; holly performer EPS, Terminator EFI, headers, novak aluminum radiator; MSD ignition
Drive train: d30 front, F8.8 rear, 4.11 gears, np242 transfer case, rusty under-armor; fully locked with detroit lockers; Chevy 700r4 tranny, 35" MT's
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  #28  
Old February 13th, 2020, 20:46
bajabronco bajabronco is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

I have a 5.9 Grand Cherokee, and with some simple mods the 5.9 Magnum engine can be a torque monster, and total beast! Check this out - http://utawesomeperformance.com/kegger-vrp.html and the FB group on Magnum performance - https://www.facebook.com/groups/290017301369073/ I guess the benefit of a Magnum engine and tranny out of a Dodge or Jeep 5.9 is that a 231 bolts right up, no adapter needed and in many cases you can get a complete running vehicle for under $1000. I am not saying it is in any way better than a LS, but don't discount it.
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  #29  
Old February 14th, 2020, 08:00
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cherokeecrawler cherokeecrawler is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Surprised nobody has mentioned going turbo? With arp studs and pistons, 4.0 can easily handle 12-13psi with a good tune. Can make 300hp & tq and still cruise down the highway. There are several options being opened up by companies and fabricators. Full turbo kit for $1500 and it's very easy to install when comparing to a new motor. Could be cheaper if you can fabricate some yourself.
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  #30  
Old February 14th, 2020, 09:29
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clydefrog clydefrog is offline
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Re: Option for engine swap 2000 XJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg222 View Post
CA has exactly the same laws, as do CT and Ma. I'm not sure of the rest of the NE, never wheeled in any other states.
I was going to bring up CA emissions but the OP wasnt from CA (according to his sig). CA is a totally different annimal when it comes to smog. This statement is not true.

First the engine MUST be six year newer than the vehicle it is going into and must have ALL the emissions stuff that the doner vehicle had including whatever transmissions where optiooned on the donor vehicle. You can put a truck motor in a car or truck but you cannot put a car motor in a truck. For example I was not able to put a Corvette motor in my XJ. I had to use a 5.3 truck motor.

I can go on and on about all the wierd stuff and rules with CA swaps, just wanted to clarify. Pretty much an LS is one of the few options you have if your in CA and want a V8.
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