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We don't need another DW thread, but...

mecompco

mecompco

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fairfield Maine
I swear I've read every GD DW thread I can find. I know, "track bar" and alignment. Well, here goes:

Symptom: Intermittent, violent front-end wobble upon hitting small bump (such as raised culvert) at speed (say 60 - 65). I cannot predict what bump will cause it--most do not, but one that is "just right" will.

Front end components:

2" OME springs w/ACOS
JKS adj. trackbar
JKS adj. UCAs and LCAs
JKS QDs
Currie HD steering
Properly balanced, pressure checked 235x75 BFG ATs

After professional alignment:
Front Left Front Right
Camber 0* .1*
Caster 6.8* 6.7*
Toe -0.02 -0.03*

All parts are properly torqued. All parts are new, except trackbar, which is lightly used--bushings are perfect, and bolts are tight. All front end parts, including ball joints were double-checked at garage prior to alignment.

Steering stabilizer is NOT installed. I know there are varying schools of thoughts regarding this, but I think I would like the front end stable before adding this.

What should I do next?
 
the lack of a stabilizer is most likely the cause of this condition. My 89 suffered from the same symptoms and i came to find the stabilizer was badly worn. Replaced it with new part and never hed a re-occurance. My friend had the same problem as well, same fix.
 
tire balance been checked? that was a major cause of my dw. a lot of people think the stabilizer is just a "crutch"; i have a hard time believing that the factory would throw an 80.00 or so part on countless jeeps if it didn't serve any real purpose. i'd definitely put a good one(i have an ome) on and give it a go.

edit: duh, i just saw the part about the balance having been checked. disregard...
 
tribalmentality said:
the lack of a stabilizer is most likely the cause of this condition. My 89 suffered from the same symptoms and i came to find the stabilizer was badly worn. Replaced it with new part and never hed a re-occurance. My friend had the same problem as well, same fix.
Click to expand...

Nope.

It will band-aid it.....but not fix it.

Many here...myself included...do not run a stabilizer. A stabilizer is to keep a road/trail obstical from jerking the wheel from your hands....or busting your thumb...nothing more.

If the tires are balanced, and the wheels true (swap front to rear to verify) then something is loose....or worn out.

A partial list:

Knuckles
Hubs
tierod ends
trac bar / trac bar mount

you name it.

the last one that I know of was a wallowed out tierod end mount on a knuckle. It would not make noise or move, but it needed 2 washers to snug the end in the taper.

Start looking....it is there.

Rev
 
mecompco said:
Steering stabilizer is NOT installed. I know there are varying schools of thoughts regarding this, but I think I would like the front end stable before adding this.

What should I do next?
Click to expand...

It's entirely possible you may not get where you want without one. Other than that- the toe should be toe IN, not toe OUT, but it's close enough that it's no big deal. Caster should be OK- it's a bit on the high side, but shouldn't cause your problem.

Track bar bracket tight, no slop in the trackbar hole? Lower trackbar bolt the correct size? Steering box moving around, cracks in the uniframe? How about the shocks and their barpins, solid?

I had a 2" XJ with the worst wobble ever, it blew out a brand new Sony head unit. That one was set off by the stock LCA bushings, and the arms were out of a 2000. Poly bushing arms fixed it, but you've already got aftermarket arms.

Try the damper, it's not a guaranteed fix but they definitely have their job cut out for them in these XJ's, can't hurt.
 
Ten High said:
tire balance been checked? that was a major cause of my dw. a lot of people think the stabilizer is just a "crutch"; i have a hard time believing that the factory would throw an 80.00 or so part on countless jeeps if it didn't serve any real purpose. i'd definitely put a good one(i have an ome) on and give it a go.

edit: duh, i just saw the part about the balance having been checked. disregard...
Click to expand...

You're right, the stabilizer may stop the wobble.....for now. Eventually, the original problem with cause failure in the stabilizer and come back.

The only things I can think of to check, that you have not already mentioned, are ensuring the rotors are not warped and make sure the joints are good in both the axles and the front ds. I have also heard of bad motor mounts casuing an off balance effect starting dw, but I'm not sure I believe it.
Good Luck!
 
Rev Den said:
Nope.

It will band-aid it.....but not fix it.

Many here...myself included...do not run a stabilizer. A stabilizer is to keep a road/trail obstical from jerking the wheel from your hands....or busting your thumb...nothing more.

Rev
Click to expand...

OK. A tight trackbar is only to keep the axle centered, nothing more. Wheel weights are just to keep from foaming up your soda. Rubber LCA bushings are comfier than poly going down the road. Not everybody needs a tight steering box, either.

People have run with all of the above out of whack and not had a wobble problem. Same with a steering damper. If your rig doesn't need wheel weights or a steering damper, hey, here's a hearty pat on the back for you. However, that doesn't make you qualified to say that it's a bandaid. SPOBI already.
 
JJacobs said:
However, that doesn't make you qualified to say that it's a bandaid. SPOBI already.
Click to expand...

Yea....'cause it is just me that thinks that. Whoa...I am a rebel.


You at not qualified to say it is bad info.

Do a little research.

Rev
 
Rev Den said:
If the tires are balanced, and the wheels true (swap front to rear to verify) then something is loose....or worn out.

A partial list:

Knuckles
Hubs
tierod ends
trac bar / trac bar mount
you name it.

the last one that I know of was a wallowed out tierod end mount on a knuckle. It would not make noise or move, but it needed 2 washers to snug the end in the taper.

Start looking....it is there.

Rev
Click to expand...

Well, never ANY problem pre-lift--would knuckles or hubs manifest a problem only with the lift?

Massive tie rod ends came w/the brand new Currie HD steering.

Will re-check the trackbar mounts, but they were fine this morning when they did the alignment.
 
Rev Den said:
Yea....'cause it is just me that thinks that. Whoa...I am a rebel.


You at not qualified to say it is bad info.

Do a little research.

Rev
Click to expand...

Um, dude, it's my job, and has been for quite some time. I daresay I'm a little beyond hobby level with my front end experience.
 
JJacobs said:
OK. A tight trackbar is only to keep the axle centered, nothing more. Wheel weights are just to keep from foaming up your soda. Rubber LCA bushings are comfier than poly going down the road. Not everybody needs a tight steering box, either.
quote]

i just can't agree with that statement. i have seen and experienced firsthand, straight axle, coil sprung dw with all of the above contributing to some degree(rubber bushings being blown apart, not dw-ing just because they were rubber). the front end on these things needs to be true, solid, and balanced to operate as designed. this just my .02 from my own personal jeeping.
Click to expand...
 
Jess said:
The only things I can think of to check, that you have not already mentioned, are ensuring the rotors are not warped and make sure the joints are good in both the axles and the front ds. I have also heard of bad motor mounts casuing an off balance effect starting dw, but I'm not sure I believe it.
Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Rotors have never been an issue pre-lift--they were new two years ago--how could they manifest vibes w/brakes not engaged?

Axles are brand new Superior Chromos w/brand new HD spicer U-Joints. DS is brand new Tom Woods, with their HD U-joints. I have not checked motor mounts, but will do so.
 
as a note, i work at a jeep dealership, we get more than few xj's and tj's in here for dw(scares the living sh*t out the uninitiated). about 90% of the time the tech finds one or more of those on that list to be the culprit. we've got some guys here who have been doing jeeps for an ungodly long time.
 
JJacobs said:
It's entirely possible you may not get where you want without one. Other than that- the toe should be toe IN, not toe OUT, but it's close enough that it's no big deal. Caster should be OK- it's a bit on the high side, but shouldn't cause your problem.

Caster was WAY out prior to the alignment, and DW would start at a much lower speed, and much more often. Perhaps reducing caster some more might help?

Track bar bracket tight, no slop in the trackbar hole? Lower trackbar bolt the correct size? Steering box moving around, cracks in the uniframe? How about the shocks and their barpins, solid?

Track bar is nice and tight. Forgot to mention C-ROK steering box plate is installed and tight (there were no frame cracks). Shocks are brand new OME, and everything is tight.

I had a 2" XJ with the worst wobble ever, it blew out a brand new Sony head unit. That one was set off by the stock LCA bushings, and the arms were out of a 2000. Poly bushing arms fixed it, but you've already got aftermarket arms.

Try the damper, it's not a guaranteed fix but they definitely have their job cut out for them in these XJ's, can't hurt.

I really think the SS might "cure" it, but for how long?
Click to expand...
 
JJacobs said:
Um, dude, it's my job, and has been for quite some time. I daresay I'm a little beyond hobby level with my front end experience.
Click to expand...


Thought you were a tire tosser.

Just because you get paid, allegedly, to fix front end problems, does not make you an expert....just look at some of the BS that has been posted about DW by some shops.

To the original poster:

I would double check the hubs and knuckles just to elininate them, look for any looseness. Wanna really check it all? Crawl under the front end and have an assistant work the wheel back and forth, FEEL everything for any snaps of thumps. When the wheel is turned...the tires should turn....not after.

Rev
 
Are your shocks new too???? Didnt see any mention of shocks....?
 
mecompco said:
Rotors have never been an issue pre-lift--they were new two years ago--how could they manifest vibes w/brakes not engaged?

Axles are brand new Superior Chromos w/brand new HD spicer U-Joints. DS is brand new Tom Woods, with their HD U-joints. I have not checked motor mounts, but will do so.
Click to expand...

A badly warped rotor will wear oddly causing it to not be in balance.

I'm not saying this is your problem, just trying to throw out ideas of things you might not have thought of yet.........food for thought.

Have you closely examined the control arm mounts for defects?
 
Rev Den said:
To the original poster:

I would double check the hubs and knuckles just to elininate them, look for any looseness. Wanna really check it all? Crawl under the front end and have an assistant work the wheel back and forth, FEEL everything for any snaps of thumps. When the wheel is turned...the tires should turn....not after.

Rev
Click to expand...

Will try this tomorrow. Truck on or off, or does it matter? Thanks for the help--I am pretty annoyed that I did this lift the "right" way, with quality parts, and still have the same issues that someone who tossed on a $149 BB might have.
 
Jess said:
A badly warped rotor will wear oddly causing it to not be in balance.

I'm not saying this is your problem, just trying to throw out ideas of things you might not have thought of yet.........food for thought.

Have you closely examined the control arm mounts for defects?
Click to expand...

Well, brakes "feel" fine, and never caused a problem pre-lift. I would think rotors that bad would show up in the pedal, no?

Control arms bolted up tight, and the stockers were fine pre-lift (of course, no experience with the new ones pre-lift). We will re-check the mounts tomorrow. Thanks for the ideas.
 
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