35+ers and brakes

I did a search, but didn't get much good feedback or information as far as what people with 35 inch tires or bigger are running as far as brakes for their vehicles.

I have a 99 XJ with 35s and I've been having quite a bit of trouble with the stock brakes (to be expected). I put on some new PFC pads and they are already glazed. The old pads I had on there were almost brand new and did the exact same thing, I thought it was just a problem with the pads so I threw on the PFC pads, but no dice.

After a short bit of driving and very few times on the brakes, my stock brake rotors(d30 still in front) are EXTREMELY HOT to the point where if you touch them with your finger you will burn yourself. Ask me how I know (drove out around the block, did about 10 or so stops just in normal driving and touched the rotor and burned the hell out of myself).

I'm going to go get the rotors resurfaced this weekend and see if that helps (as well as recondition the front pads).

What are you guys with 35inch or bigger tires running as far as brakes and what's your feedback on this topic?

Right now doing the WJ brake swap isn't a option for me as I don't have garage space to do it (apartment living is for the birds)

My stock 30 brakes and big 44 drums are doing the job for me until the 44 goes up front with ford pistons. have you seen this?
Gojeep

Sucked with 35s and stock brakes. I put on discs in the rear and now it is great.

What length brake lines are you using up front?

I made some rear disc brakes out of some spare rotors I had and some pre 1991 XJ front calipers and brackets. Since my XJ is a 1988 I swapped in a dual diaphragm booster but yours already has that. The braking is much better now...it's currently biased too much to the rear but I can still lock up the 35's on dry pavement. Prior to the switch over to rear discs I couldn't lock up 30" tires on dry pavement.

As for the heat you speak of...brakes get REALLY hot no matter what vehicle they're on. I wouldn't worry about the heat so much as how it feels when it's stopping. Is your pedal spongy? Does the pedal hit the floor before the tires lock up? Are your rear brake shoes adjusted properly? (this is a big one as they have to be adjusted regularly to keep braking adequate with larger tires)

Short of changing out your rear drums for discs, try upgrading to a better rotor and pad combo up front. My 01 would not stop for anything with the 35's (D-44 rear/D-30front). Invested in a set of Power Stop front rotors and Hawk pads. Huge difference in stopping distance and control-ability during hard braking. Fade was no longer present, actually made the thing streetable again. Until I put the front 44 and 38's on it. It's trail only now. But the power stop rotors were well worth the price at the time.

HTH

Always found the great XJ brake problem to be overblown.
Used stock brakes till the front 44 install without any problems.
Sure, they aren't great but they do stop you.
Also, all pads will get glazed as soon as you start using them, nature of the beast. Resurfacing the rotors is not going to stop this.
The only real reason to turn rotors is if they are warped, creating a pulsing brake pedal.
As long as they will lock up I don't see the big deal. You're not driving Le Mans.

Of course it's not like driving the Le Mans.

The problem is you can press on the pedal and feel the caliper put friction aganist the rotor, but the tires are still going. It's like you can feel the pads trying to grab against the rotor but just not being able to. I'm thinking the rotor is glazed and is causing the pads to glaze as well.

I think a big problem on mine is just brake fade. It'll be fine from small stops, but anything that requires more (lets say like from 30mph up) will take a while to stop. Not something that is good on the street at all, especially with the shitty drivers Albuquerque has that like to cut in front of you at lights just so they're the first one there. As far as you saying being able to lock up the brakes, no dice. The brake fade gets so bad that like I said, from any speed over 30, the Jeep will not want to stop hard enough or fast enough to even have the thought of locking up the brakes.

skyjackedxj96, After doing a few searches on the topic yesterday I did see those. I never quite saw a price however and the availability of parts here in the US.


muddshutter, i'm using the SS brake lines supplied with the Rubicon Express 5.5 Extreme Duty Kit.

Bender, the pedal doesn't feel spongy and it doesn't hit the floor. It feels exactly like it should. Like I posted above. You can tell that the pads are compressing against the rotor to try and get the Jeep to stop, but it feels like it just doesn't GRAB to actually get it to stop. I still have to check on the rear drum shoes to see if they're in adjustment.


Looks like a rear disc conversion and some upgraded rotors are the way to go from the replies I've gotton here.

On my '87 I swapped in a WJ master/booster, and napa premium pads and shoes front/rear. No other mod's and I can lock up my 35's all day.

That said, I'm working on a WJ setup up front and crown vic discs in the rear, but I feel safe enough with what I have for street use.

-C

My stock brakes work well enough to control very steep descents and dropping off of tall ledges.
Can't ask for more than that.

Oh, and I can lock all four up on the road.

cal said:

On my '87 I swapped in a WJ master/booster, and napa premium pads and shoes front/rear. No other mod's and I can lock up my 35's all day.

That said, I'm working on a WJ setup up front and crown vic discs in the rear, but I feel safe enough with what I have for street use.

-C

Click to expand...

95+ already have the bigger brake booster iirc.

I'd love to do a WJ front setup, but it requires more work and garage space then I have (I live in apartments).

Terry.
Stopping from small stops isn't a problem at all. It's more when the tires have some rotational mass behind them like I said (30mph+ more or less)

Rotors do not warp. Common misconception.

The "warped" feeling you feel is pad deposits after sitting on the brakes at a stop light after the pads have been heated to an extent that they leave residue.

The residue sits on the rotors and creates bumps on the rotor that simulates "warping"

When I used to track my Integra I would switch from street pads to race pads. I would get the "warped" effect on the street pads. As soon as I put in the race pads and went through a heat cycle there was magically no "warping"

Rotors do not warp.

GrayT said:

Rotors do not warp. Common misconception.

The "warped" feeling you feel is pad deposits after sitting on the brakes at a stop light after the pads have been heated to an extent that they leave residue.

The residue sits on the rotors and creates bumps on the rotor that simulates "warping"

When I used to track my Integra I would switch from street pads to race pads. I would get the "warped" effect on the street pads. As soon as I put in the race pads and went through a heat cycle there was magically no "warping"

Rotors do not warp.

Click to expand...

News to me.

So when I thorw a dial indicator on there and check the runout, all I am really reading is the amount of pad "debris" left on the rotor. How come you cant just clean this off with a scraper? The rotors always have to be turned? I guess all those thousands of rotors I've turned were a waste of time...should've just replaced the pad, right?

GrayT said:

Rotors do not warp. Common misconception.

The "warped" feeling you feel is pad deposits after sitting on the brakes at a stop light after the pads have been heated to an extent that they leave residue.

The residue sits on the rotors and creates bumps on the rotor that simulates "warping"

When I used to track my Integra I would switch from street pads to race pads. I would get the "warped" effect on the street pads. As soon as I put in the race pads and went through a heat cycle there was magically no "warping"

Rotors do not warp.

Click to expand...

Ohhhh.
So, when I put the rotors on the turning lathe and they have a good .030"-.050" of runout that would be ...


misconception?

edit: JohnX, you beat me to the punch.

GrayT said:

Rotors do not warp. Common misconception.

The "warped" feeling you feel is pad deposits after sitting on the brakes at a stop light after the pads have been heated to an extent that they leave residue.

The residue sits on the rotors and creates bumps on the rotor that simulates "warping"

When I used to track my Integra I would switch from street pads to race pads. I would get the "warped" effect on the street pads. As soon as I put in the race pads and went through a heat cycle there was magically no "warping"

Rotors do not warp.

Click to expand...

Bullshit. I'm not even going to bother with a technical response, as anyone who believes what you just spouted off isn't worth the typing time.

GrayT said:

Rotors do not warp. Common misconception.

The "warped" feeling you feel is pad deposits after sitting on the brakes at a stop light after the pads have been heated to an extent that they leave residue.

The residue sits on the rotors and creates bumps on the rotor that simulates "warping"

When I used to track my Integra I would switch from street pads to race pads. I would get the "warped" effect on the street pads. As soon as I put in the race pads and went through a heat cycle there was magically no "warping"

Rotors do not warp.

Click to expand...

AHAHAHah thats funny.

cal said:

Bullshit. I'm not even going to bother with a technical response, as anyone who believes what you just spouted off isn't worth the typing time.

Click to expand...

Throw out your technical response. I will post up a technical response by someone that researches rotors, and has the equipment to actually measure this sort of thing, as opposed to a brake lathe example. If you even want to bothering typing out your technical response, try to reason out pad residual.

By lathing you are taking off the residue, yes. Do you honestly think that brake pads are made out of rubber? That's why you can't scrap it off. Welding is the same principal. The metals get so hot that they eventually join together creating, in a sense, one complete metal.

If rotors warp, explain why using carbon ceramic brake pads will cure it? Explain why race type applications and their braking systems somehow bypass rotors warping? Last by not least, explain how 1/4 of an inch of aluminum-metal matrix composite rotors are able to be easily "warped" as opposed to the same material and thickness is not easily dented by even a sledgehammer.

Before I even try to argue this without back-up, since some people are just so thick-headed, here's proof.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

"Oh! But my lathe feels vibrations!" Are you serious?!

Feel free to argue with Carroll Smith, the author. And for most of you who don't know who he is, google it.

Actually, that totally makes sense......to me anyway.

Weird how no one has any "technical response" to say now.

Back to the thread, though.

Greg: If you want to stop better, you will have to do a disc conversion. You said you have a stock brake setup, which includes the tiny drum brakes in the rear. There are conversions from ZJ's that will fit right on the rear axle, and there is one (to my knowledge) kit that you can buy for around $450 with all brand new parts to convert the drums to disc aswell.

Here's the kit: http://northridge4x4.com/proddetail.php?prod=TF-DBK-J

You said you don't have the garage space to do a conversion, but replacing pads won't help very much. You can only use the braking system to an extent that you are equipped with. Your rotors should be heated after just a few stops. The friction will heat it up very quickly, which is good to a point for most pads. If you are getting brake fade, change the fluid out.

What kind of tech response did you expect...Its the same damn thing. Adding metal to a rotor makes it untrue just as if it were warped. People use the term "warped" because it is easy to understand.

And I'm sorry if we don't run Carbon ceramic pads on our street vehicles, but we were discussing a Jeep, right? Not some exotic race car, or your Integra.


Its the same damn thing, If you want to feel special by calling it something else, thats fine, but don't expect everyone to bend over backwards to understand what you're saying.

Bottom Line....You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-ma-toe.