Getting ready to do the rear axle swap, but I cannot decide if a Cherokee 44 or an Explorer 8.8 is the correct road to go. Any advice? I can get both for about the same price. Which is better? Any advantages/disadvantages to the both of them? I'm gonna be running no larger than 35's.
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d44 vs 8.8
- Thread starter 53guy
- Start date
Jeffro600
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cheyenne, Wy
jrsxj98
DILIGAF
- Location
- Crawlorado
D44 direct bolt in, brake fittings the same, ebrake cables will still work
only advantage i see to the 8.8 is discs
only advantage i see to the 8.8 is discs
- Location
- La Habra, CA
Straight from Jeffro600's link...
A possible negative to the 8.8" is its c-clip axle design, which means (like the Dana 35) that the axle is held in place by c-clips at the differential, not by an outer axle flange. If your axle breaks, your wheel will come off! The Dana 44, in contrast, does not use a c-clip, so you're not completely stuck by a broken axle, but it's not a full-floating axle, either. A semi-floating axle, like the 44, can be driven a little way if broken, but not far. If there's a chance you'll break an axle, no matter which design, you should carry spares.
A possible negative to the 8.8" is its c-clip axle design, which means (like the Dana 35) that the axle is held in place by c-clips at the differential, not by an outer axle flange. If your axle breaks, your wheel will come off! The Dana 44, in contrast, does not use a c-clip, so you're not completely stuck by a broken axle, but it's not a full-floating axle, either. A semi-floating axle, like the 44, can be driven a little way if broken, but not far. If there's a chance you'll break an axle, no matter which design, you should carry spares.
bj-666
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rhode Island
:heart:SEARCH PLEASE:heart:
Big Red
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Roscoe, IL 61073
The Ford 8.8 is a great axle and is very common so you can get some extra axle shafts. It also have disc brakes 96-00' It also has 31 spline axle shafts. It is not bolt in and 3/4" or so narrower than the Jeep axles, but has the same bolt pattern etc making it a great axle.
The XJ dana 44 is a nice strong axle and is bolt in. You can also get replacement axle shafts for it based on TJ dana 44's with slight changes to the retainer plate. It has large drum brakes and 30 spline axle shafts. It is a hard call. You cannot go wrong with either. If you can get the Ford 8.8 welded up and installed cheap I'd say go with it due to it's huge availability, disc brakes and 31 spline axle shafts. It has c-clips, but you have to break the big 31 spline axle shafts 1st and you will not lose the tire due to the disc brakes 96-00'. The XJ dana 44 is worth $375-500 or so and is getting harder and harder to find. Mostly being in 87's XJ with the tow package but can be found sporatically in 88's and 89's as well. How much can you get these axles for?
If you are going to go with a dana 44 up front, I'd say get the dana 44, then you'd have dana 44's front and rear and can go deeper than 4.88's with your gearing. All the way to 5.89 gears if you want in the reg dana 44, with a hp44 down to 5.38's. The Ford 8.8 is down to 4.88's, I heard that 5.13s is out there, but not that common. I'm not 100% on that, but I think I saw deeper gears for the 8.8
Troy
The XJ dana 44 is a nice strong axle and is bolt in. You can also get replacement axle shafts for it based on TJ dana 44's with slight changes to the retainer plate. It has large drum brakes and 30 spline axle shafts. It is a hard call. You cannot go wrong with either. If you can get the Ford 8.8 welded up and installed cheap I'd say go with it due to it's huge availability, disc brakes and 31 spline axle shafts. It has c-clips, but you have to break the big 31 spline axle shafts 1st and you will not lose the tire due to the disc brakes 96-00'. The XJ dana 44 is worth $375-500 or so and is getting harder and harder to find. Mostly being in 87's XJ with the tow package but can be found sporatically in 88's and 89's as well. How much can you get these axles for?
If you are going to go with a dana 44 up front, I'd say get the dana 44, then you'd have dana 44's front and rear and can go deeper than 4.88's with your gearing. All the way to 5.89 gears if you want in the reg dana 44, with a hp44 down to 5.38's. The Ford 8.8 is down to 4.88's, I heard that 5.13s is out there, but not that common. I'm not 100% on that, but I think I saw deeper gears for the 8.8
Troy
Big Red
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Roscoe, IL 61073
xjohnnyc said:
True about the C-clips, but you axle shaft will be retained in the axle by the disc brakes however, so that gives you some degree of piece of mind over your tire, brakes, axle shafts parting ways with your XJ. :laugh3:
Thanks guys. That site really helped. I did search btw, but I knew I'd get that comment sooner or later, so I don't really care. I'm looking for opinions, not technichal advice, so the other posts that I did find under search didn't really help much. What do you all think would be better? I'm leaning more towards the cherokee 44, but then again, I don't know if you can do a disc conversion to it. More searching yet to come.
- Location
- Westminster, SoCal
That means you didn't search hard enough: about a month ago there was a big discussion about which is better. Anyways, 8.8 is bigger (hangs lower), if done right both require welding on at lower shockmounts and potentially spring perches (if you want to do it right nad set the pinion angle on the D44 that is), both can be equipped with disk brakes....53guy said:
Which is stronger? Matter of opinion. At the very least I like the fact that D44 is non c clip.
bj-666
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rhode Island
guess i should have searched for ya:kissyou:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72868&highlight=d44*+8.8*
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71260&highlight=d44*+8.8*
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308645&highlight=8.8+vs+44
the list of answers go's on/on there pretty equal and the list of reasons why one is better than the other go's forever from either side of the argument. read the posts and make your own decisions based on that.
good luck
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72868&highlight=d44*+8.8*
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71260&highlight=d44*+8.8*
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308645&highlight=8.8+vs+44
the list of answers go's on/on there pretty equal and the list of reasons why one is better than the other go's forever from either side of the argument. read the posts and make your own decisions based on that.
good luck
- Location
- La Habra, CA
Yup, very true. So how about a Dana 44 with disc brakes?Big Red said:
goodburbon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Westcliffe Colorado.
I got the 8.8 for mine, all told the cost for everything + installation was 1100 or so
600 for a brand new axle on e-bay
300 for the MORE installation kit,
and 150 for the local shop to weld it in
If I had it to do over again.....I would change a few things.
I waited around and searched for weeks trying to find one with the correct gear ratio, and the stock ford limited slip.
Now I am putting in a locker, because the limited slip slipped too much.
Knowing what I now Know I would have found a local unit at the u-pull it, and spent the shipping money and "New" cost on a set of gears, locker and the install.
Finding a 44 would save you lots of cash.... no need for an installation kit. ' you could spend that money on the locker/gears/install. and there is no need for any axle housing expenses aside from u-bolts.
But...I love my 8.8, because I broke a front axle once with no spares and I just flogged the living poop out of it up a stairstep.....and made it out on my own.
600 for a brand new axle on e-bay
300 for the MORE installation kit,
and 150 for the local shop to weld it in
If I had it to do over again.....I would change a few things.
I waited around and searched for weeks trying to find one with the correct gear ratio, and the stock ford limited slip.
Now I am putting in a locker, because the limited slip slipped too much.
Knowing what I now Know I would have found a local unit at the u-pull it, and spent the shipping money and "New" cost on a set of gears, locker and the install.
Finding a 44 would save you lots of cash.... no need for an installation kit. ' you could spend that money on the locker/gears/install. and there is no need for any axle housing expenses aside from u-bolts.
But...I love my 8.8, because I broke a front axle once with no spares and I just flogged the living poop out of it up a stairstep.....and made it out on my own.
Gil BullyKatz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
xjohnnyc said:
That quote right there...
is a pile of dogshit...
Kid4lyf did this to his 8.8 while doing a waterfall climb...
His wheel did NOT come flying off.
Keep in mind an ancient oem 44 shaft probably would've given up the ghost a lot sooner...
Jeffro600
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cheyenne, Wy
You wheel wont come flying off per say....however, there will be little to nothing to keep it from flying off!
Either axle is a GREAT upgrade...it just boils down to whats more available and how much work you want to put into it. If you want super easy and bolt right up, go D44. With a set of good aftermarket shafts, they give little to nothing up in terms of strength to the 8.8. The 8.8s are found easier though and can usually be had for less money.
Either axle is a GREAT upgrade...it just boils down to whats more available and how much work you want to put into it. If you want super easy and bolt right up, go D44. With a set of good aftermarket shafts, they give little to nothing up in terms of strength to the 8.8. The 8.8s are found easier though and can usually be had for less money.
Gil BullyKatz
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- 2003UB313 Planet ERIS
Jeffro600 said:
Ya gotta make sure to stand waaaay clear when someone's wheeling with an 8.8....
Every year...
hundreds of bystanders are critically injured by runaway 8.8 shafts with the wheels attached...
I understand
will be banning any and all c-clip equipped shafts on all sanctioned events.Liability issues.
- Location
- La Habra, CA
That wasn't my direct quote. That was from the link.Gil BullyKatz said:
I had made my mind up on the 8.8, then changed it. I am putting in an Isuzu 44 now. Here are a couple of thoughts.
If you are not going to swap your front, staying with the D30, then the 8.8 makes a lot of sense. The D44 too. The widths are right, wheel bolt pattern, similar strength.
If you are going to swap the front, that opens a can of worms. Not only do you have to find compatible axles, but you have to find pairs with the right wheel bolt patterns. That is why I'm going Waggy front Isuzu rear. It is an excelent combo, and solves a lot of problems.
I should have my rear in this time next month and here is some advice. Who gives a rats ass about D44 vs. 8.8. They have pros, they have cons. They are comparable axles. I have an opinion, but it is mine, not yours. I am obsessive, and do plenty of research. It is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. You have to look at your availability of parts. Everyone talks about how available 8.8s are, but not in my area. There are a lot of Jeepers here. There are about 30 8.8s with drums sitting in the u-pull yard. I would have to camp out for one with disks. XJ D44 forget about it for less than $400. I got my Zu 44 rotor to rotor for $90. I'll have it under my XJ for $400. There are always hidden costs, and it requires some time and effort.
Also, money will always fix the cons. You could have a 8.8 with disks and get c-clip eliminators for the same price you would pay to put disks on the D44. You won't go wrong with either axle. The only thing that matters is how much time, money, and mechanical skills you have. After that, it is a piece of cake! Go have fun. I stoked about my swap
If you are not going to swap your front, staying with the D30, then the 8.8 makes a lot of sense. The D44 too. The widths are right, wheel bolt pattern, similar strength.
If you are going to swap the front, that opens a can of worms. Not only do you have to find compatible axles, but you have to find pairs with the right wheel bolt patterns. That is why I'm going Waggy front Isuzu rear. It is an excelent combo, and solves a lot of problems.
I should have my rear in this time next month and here is some advice. Who gives a rats ass about D44 vs. 8.8. They have pros, they have cons. They are comparable axles. I have an opinion, but it is mine, not yours. I am obsessive, and do plenty of research. It is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. You have to look at your availability of parts. Everyone talks about how available 8.8s are, but not in my area. There are a lot of Jeepers here. There are about 30 8.8s with drums sitting in the u-pull yard. I would have to camp out for one with disks. XJ D44 forget about it for less than $400. I got my Zu 44 rotor to rotor for $90. I'll have it under my XJ for $400. There are always hidden costs, and it requires some time and effort.
Also, money will always fix the cons. You could have a 8.8 with disks and get c-clip eliminators for the same price you would pay to put disks on the D44. You won't go wrong with either axle. The only thing that matters is how much time, money, and mechanical skills you have. After that, it is a piece of cake! Go have fun. I stoked about my swap
Jeffro600 said:
This would be true with a drum brake equipped C-Clip axle, but deffinitly not with a disc equipped... The caliper would have to 'break off' of the caliper mount for the axle/wheel to come off... This situation is highly unlikely, though I suppose it's possible...
I would hope one would know that they had broke an axle, and would attempt to replace it ASAP...
Gil BullyKatz said:Ya gotta make sure to stand waaaay clear when someone's wheeling with an 8.8....
Every year...
hundreds of bystanders are critically injured by runaway 8.8 shafts with the wheels attached...
I understand
Liability issues.
:rattle: Looks like I'll never be able to run a sanctioned
event... :laugh3: In all seriousness I would choose the 8.8 over the D44 for many reasons. The difference in strength is negligilbe. Both can be geared lower than the D30, so no difference there. I don't know anyone who would choose drum brakes over discs, advantage 8.8. Both are the correct bolt pattern, and the difference in WMS is negligible [to most]. Cost: How many D44's have you seen at your local salvage yard? How bout the 8.8's - Advantage 8.8... I'll let you make your own decision though...
Dirt Surfer said:
I would highly recommend NOT running C-Clip eliminators in an 8.8 [or any C-Clip axle]. They were not desgined to handle the stress and side loads that a 4x4 puts them through [Unless that has recently changed]... They may be great in a drag car, but that's a whole different animal...
Keep us posted on your Zuzu D44 swap... Infact a whole new thread would be great :wave:
