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up travel vs. down travel

METAL MONKEY

NAXJA Forum User
Location
severance, co
1) is one more important than the other?
2) will one make a rig more stable?
3) does amount of up travel on one side have an effect of down travel on
the other side?

reason why i ask is because i'm looking for some new shocks. i have taken measurements and factored in using B.P.E f/r and shock conversions for the stud on the front. i'm pretty sure a 10" travel will work for the rear, but not sure what to do on the front. a 10" or a 12" travel shock will fit for the front, but have different effects on travel. with the 10" i'll have aproximately 5" up and 5" down. with the 12" and proper bumpstop lengths, i'll have 3" up and 9" down. this is assuming that the front suspension will cylce enough to make the shocks the limiting factor.

thx
 
flex the suspension and see what will even work.

assuming your axle will droop 9", by the time it has the coils have probably become unseated and are no longer pushing that tire into the ground and the only weight on it is from the weight of the tire/wheel and axle, which is nearly useless.

I think 5 up 5 down would be much better. I have my shocks set 6 up/6 down, but the bumpstops set so that when crawling I usually only get 4 up and 6 down, i really like it.
 
oh, and you didn't say what kind of wheelin. I know the desert guys often prefer more uptravel to soak up all those speed bumps at 100 mph. Crawlers often prefer mostly downtravel because it keeps the body higher off the rocks and a lower CG.
 
it will be rockcrawling and trails. no pre-runner. i'll have just under 6" of lift with this shock setup too. didn't mention that earlier.
 
I have 6.5" lift in front and I run Doetsch Tech (SP) 11.5" travel shocks with JKS upper conversions. I net about 3.5" up and 8" down, I have just enough droop to keep my coils from flopping out, yet enough up travel to have a decent ride.
 
Fuel90 said:
it will be rockcrawling and trails. no pre-runner. i'll have just under 6" of lift with this shock setup too. didn't mention that earlier.

Give your self the most up travel you can fit before the tires rub too bad. I have like 3in of up at the bump stop but when the other side drops I get additional uptravel at the tire.

With verly littel up travel it only feals ok jumping it about 3ft high, any higher Id need more uptravel.

Unloading is a stability issue. That is always on down travel. Add one of those littel ATV winches to each axle as an adjustable center limit strap (nylon not metal cable) this will maxamize you side hilling ability, and control unloading.
 
you jump your jeep 3ft high with only 3" of up travel...??? that sounds fun


I have 5.5" lift and run the front at 5" up, 5" down. I do like to go fast a lot of the time, so maybe its not for you.
 
Consider the force and spring resistance at full compression, with the up/down travel balance. The spring you have to work with (or you choose) determines what you end up with.

Most near stock XJ's load the coil spring on front corners between 650 to 700 pounds, per corner at rest height. With all the weight on one front corner, crossed up headed down hill (or full tilt on a ramp), the load on the spring increases to between 1700 and 2100 pounds (between 2.6x and 3x the rest height corner weight).

You are going to end up with the ride height you get with the spring choice you select, and the up/down travel will be determined by tire clearance and bumpstop placement (what hits first when you fully load the corner). You can limit the up travel by using larger tires (that will hit the inner fender radius & coil tower bulge) or by lowering/raising the bumpstop contact point, but the coil force load on the corner will be the same.

You want the stop limit hit (tire or bump) to limit the compression travel, and then move the shock mounts to protect the shock at full compression.

If you want less compression travel to full hit, you install an air bump (or quality poly bump) to increase the spring + bump force at the final inches of travel, or you install a spring with a higher spring rate. The resistance provided by the spring needs to counter the corner load in fewer inches of remaining compression travel: 1200# in ~four inches (300#/inch) instead of a taller ride height with six inches of remaining compression (with a 200#/inch coil). A shorter 300#/in coil on an 12-inch travel shock leaves 4" up and 8" down, where a longer 200#/in coil provides 6" up and down, with the same force on the coil at ride height and at full compression stop. This is why spring selection is important (knowing what you have to begin with, and why all the guesstimate reports on rate we have make it near impossible to provide a quality answer to predict what you will end up with).

The need for better transient handling responce at taller ride height and the prerunnner demands for higher spring force at full hit has also driven a greater selection of coils with rates greater than 220#/in (something we did not have even two years ago, and needed). It's all in how you design the coil rate (spring wire diameter and coil turns) and the spring height (length of travel and length at ride height), tuned with spring mounts (spacers, ACOS, or other movement at the spring perches). We are fairly limited on what we can do with the spring perches (only move the top mount) so it limits the possible adjustment in ride height and travel to stop we can effectively tune.

The challenge of dialing in the spring rate and travel at full compression load highlight the advantage of coilovers in spring selection, where you are not compromising with only a limited selection of springs (rates, block lengths, and travel range lengths) and a limited choice of spring mount locations. The coilover options allow much more freedom to set the parameters.

I hope some of this makes sense? I have to eat and dump some new antibiotics down my throat to kill a two week old ear infection.
 
Fuel90 said:
1) is one more important than the other?
2) will one make a rig more stable?
3) does amount of up travel on one side have an effect of down travel on
the other side?

thx


Now for the quick answer:

1) NO, both are important (in relationship to the spring force provided at ride height and full jounce).
2) No, but the relationship the of ride height and spring rate at ride height will impact stability. In general terms lower ride heights (lower CG) and stiffer spring rates (quicker suspension responce to driver input) provide a more stable rig.
3) Yes and no. The overall travel will still be XX-inches, but the amount of angle the compressed tire tucks into the fender when crossed up is effected by the relationship. The overall axle articulation angle is limited by when the compressed tire rubs the inner fenderwell. The compressed tire's contact with the body can limit the opposite tire downtravel: something remedied with smaller diameter tires, less rim backspacing, more narrow tires, or a taller static ride height (more lift).

Is this a better answer?
 
Ed, you have been very helpful. i was actually on your webpage last night reading up. you have a lot of useful information.

thank you very much!
 
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