Rear axle.....60 or 9" or ??

Ok, I've got a D60 sitting in the garage, it's SF 35 spline, non-c-clip, non-tapered shafts. It's 66" wide and has an offset diff(by 5"). If I were to center the diff, thereby aligning the pinion with the t-case output, it would make the axle 61" wide. This is in my opinion ideal and why I looked long and hard for this axle. However, getting this damn thing narrowed is proving to be a royal PITA. Nobody local has the ability to do it, and after reading the threads on pirate, I don't feel comfortable doing it myself. Moser will do the shaft and housing together for $140, but shipping it out and back will cost nearly $200. So narrowing the housing will actually cost $350. Then I still need gears and everything else to go with it. I figure I'll have at least another $600 in it in gears/bearings/brakes and that's without a locker of any type. So now I'm up to 950, and more like 1400+ if I run a full-case locker. I also wanted to shave the 60 to gain some clearance, but the only person I know that really does a good job of this is Sean Rose, and I get the impression he's really busy.

That leads me to look at my other options in the $1500- range. Sunray 9"? Dynatrac 60? BLING D44?

I'm building to run 35s and NEVER want to have to worry about my axles. I'd rather build it right once than build it three more times in the next two years. The front axle is a Tera 50(HP44 housing essentially) with 3/4 ton inner C's, Chevy flattop knuckles, OTN steering, warn premiums and will eventually recieve Warns and longfield U-joints. Gears will be 5.13s.

PLEASE help me decide, I'm really at a stand still and I NEED to get this thing going as I haven't wheeled since my 8.25 went south at Tellico last July and the wheeling season is coming into full-swing. Thanks

Oh yeah, I have nothing against Toy axles, if I can find them and they can be made 5x5.5(front axle already is)

Ary

P.S. I really don't want an 8.8 simply because I HATE C-clips :moon:

The standard 9" has a low pinion, I run one,but thats with 38's. The high pinion 9" is nice and you'll never break, but, 4.88 is as low as you can go (last time I checked). I'm in Greensboro, NC and I know people who can narrow your 60 for a good price, If cash is a factor, I'd go for your 60. If your rollin bigtime, the prorock is the shizzle. You just need to figure how much play you can afford to pay......I may have been of no help, just my .02

Who in G-boro can do it?? I don't mind driving down to G-boro for a weekend and having it done. Used to date a girl from W-S, so I've got friends in the area I could hang out with while I wait. Thanks

Ary

good call on the Toy axles, they can easily be made 5 on 5.5 by Moser, Dutchman, or any decent machine shop. They will need to plug a hole or two first, then redrill.

get a Tacoma diff with the electric locker, and they come with pretty low gears too, and are 60" wide. I got an '88 diff, which is 58.5" wide and probably too narrow for an XJ (I have an MJ) as it was almost too narrow for my spring perches, and XJ perches are a bit wider. $100 for the housing, shafts and brakes, I found a 4.88 third with Richmond gears in basically new shape for $200, a brand new lockright for $100. I also "shaved" the bottom for the cost of some 1/4" plate and wire. So I have $400 into a locked, geared axle that I will have absolutely no fear on with 35s and has the same or better ground clearance than a D35. oh yeah, and $40 for a 1310 adapter from high-angle driveline.

check out this page with tons of info on Toy diffs: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
feel free to PM me, I've done tons of research before I did it and quite possibly know more about Toyota axles than any other Jeep owner

mad maXJ said:

good call on the Toy axles, they can easily be made 5 on 5.5 by Moser, Dutchman, or any decent machine shop. They will need to plug a hole or two first, then redrill.

get a Tacoma diff with the electric locker, and they come with pretty low gears too, and are 60" wide. I got an '88 diff, which is 58.5" wide and probably too narrow for an XJ (I have an MJ) as it was almost too narrow for my spring perches, and XJ perches are a bit wider. $100 for the housing, shafts and brakes, I found a 4.88 third with Richmond gears in basically new shape for $200, a brand new lockright for $100. I also "shaved" the bottom for the cost of some 1/4" plate and wire. So I have $400 into a locked, geared axle that I will have absolutely no fear on with 35s and has the same or better ground clearance than a D35. oh yeah, and $40 for a 1310 adapter from high-angle driveline.

check out this page with tons of info on Toy diffs: http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/
feel free to PM me, I've done tons of research before I did it and quite possibly know more about Toyota axles than any other Jeep owner

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Hey mad maXJ, do you have any other good toyota axle and diff links, i want to learn more about Yotas!
thanks arty:

Safari Ary said:

Ok, I've got a D60 sitting in the garage, it's SF 35 spline, non-c-clip, non-tapered shafts. It's 66" wide and has an offset diff(by 5"). If I were to center the diff, thereby aligning the pinion with the t-case output, it would make the axle 61" wide. This is in my opinion ideal and why I looked long and hard for this axle. However, getting this damn thing narrowed is proving to be a royal PITA. Nobody local has the ability to do it, and after reading the threads on pirate, I don't feel comfortable doing it myself. Moser will do the shaft and housing together for $140, but shipping it out and back will cost nearly $200. So narrowing the housing will actually cost $350. Then I still need gears and everything else to go with it. I figure I'll have at least another $600 in it in gears/bearings/brakes and that's without a locker of any type. So now I'm up to 950, and more like 1400+ if I run a full-case locker. I also wanted to shave the 60 to gain some clearance, but the only person I know that really does a good job of this is Sean Rose, and I get the impression he's really busy.

That leads me to look at my other options in the $1500- range. Sunray 9"? Dynatrac 60? BLING D44?

I'm building to run 35s and NEVER want to have to worry about my axles. I'd rather build it right once than build it three more times in the next two years. The front axle is a Tera 50(HP44 housing essentially) with 3/4 ton inner C's, Chevy flattop knuckles, OTN steering, warn premiums and will eventually recieve Warns and longfield U-joints. Gears will be 5.13s.

PLEASE help me decide, I'm really at a stand still and I NEED to get this thing going as I haven't wheeled since my 8.25 went south at Tellico last July and the wheeling season is coming into full-swing. Thanks

Oh yeah, I have nothing against Toy axles, if I can find them and they can be made 5x5.5(front axle already is)

Ary

P.S. I really don't want an 8.8 simply because I HATE C-clips :moon:

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Safari Ary i don't want to try to get you to change direction here on your axel opinions but you can get a c clip eliminator kit for the 8.8 and do away with those nasssssty c-clips and save an other wise pretty sweet axel.

motorcityxj said:

Hey mad maXJ, do you have any other good toyota axle and diff links, i want to learn more about Yotas!
thanks arty:

Click to expand...

here is a good FAQ on PBB, but it's for all Toyota stuff not just axles: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173918

more Toyota links:

http://www.barneymc.com/toy_root/techneek/top_neek.htm
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/
http://www.off-road.com/toyota/

Stick with the 60, for $600 get comfortable with narrowing it.

You can break 30 spline axles with 35s. So I wouldn't consider toys, or 44s a 31 spline 9 is better but not much.

I run an 8.8 with 31 splines on 35s I am not really concerned with breaking it but if I "never" wanted to worry about breaking the 35 spline semi float 60 is pretty ideal.

Safari Ary said:

That leads me to look at my other options in the $1500- range. Sunray 9"? Dynatrac 60? BLING D44?

Oh yeah, I have nothing against Toy axles, if I can find them and they can be made 5x5.5(front axle already is)

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Those other axles you mention aren't in the $1,500 range. You couldn't buy custom underwear from Dynatrac for $1,500. If you are going to run 35's, take a hard look at the Yota 8". This is enough axle for 35's, just put in alloy shaft in 5 on 5.5 and convert to discs (or maybe redrill the 12.1" drums?). Gaining a good 2 to 2.5" of pumpkin clearance over a D60 is worth carrying a set of spare axle shafts.

Now what you should do is run the 60 with 37's and shave it a bit...but watcha gonna do with that in VA Beach except please the crowds :music: ???

Nay

there are plenty of Toyota guys running crazy AZ trails on 37s and 38.5s and they have gone to great lengths to upgrade the Toy 8" fronts, but many run stock rear shafts with no problems, and if you still feel uneasy, $300 and you get 4130 shafts (5 year unlimited warranty). weld on a truss (apparently Sky is coming out with one for only $30) and you can eliminate concerns about bending it too.

if you have 35s, less than 150:1 gearing, less than 250 horsepower, and weigh less than 4000ish pounds, I don't see any way you're going to break a Toy axle short of jumping it out of a building. Also, the Tacoma "8.4" diff is even stronger because it has additional carrier supports.

sure the D60 is stronger, but several hundred dollars more, and hangs at LEAST an inch lower. that's like the difference between 35s adn 37s under the axle, maybe even more.

if you really want unbreakable, get a 14bolt, or heck, 5ton rockwells...

there's a balance somewhere, and I think the Toy axle has the best balance when it comes to 33-37 inch tires.

Nay said:

but watcha gonna do with that in VA Beach except please the crowds :music: ???

Nay

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Dave, you bring up the reason I NEVER want to have to worry..... I enjoy wheelin, but all the wheelin I enjoy is at least 5 hours from home. Since I don't tow my rig, I need it to be reliable enough to get me home. After my last run to Tellico, where my 9 hour trip home turned into a 36 hour trip home, I want to be confident that I'll make it home with no worries.

It seems like I need to start learning about toy axles fast. My biggest question at the moment is can I run 5.13 gears in them? After running 4.56s with small 32s I've realized that I like being slightly overgeared. Now I'm running them with tall 33s and I feel like it's bogged down. I know they do 5.29s, but that's probably a little deeper than I want.

Thanks

and damn it why didn't I listen to you Dave when you tried to talk me out of the 8.25 last year :banghead:

you can do 3.90, 4.10, 4.30, 4.37, 4.56, 4.88, 5.29, and 5.(81?) in Toy axles. do not go deeper than 5.29 for anything that gets wheeled. as you can see, 4.88s are the deepest that match Dana axles, that's what I'm using with a Waggy D44 up front with 35s. Many of the Toyota guys swap D44s up front and use 5.29s in the rear with 5.38s up front with no problems, it's only a 1.7% difference.

Safari Ary said:

and damn it why didn't I listen to you Dave when you tried to talk me out of the 8.25 last year :banghead:

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Same reason I spent money on an 8.25 when people tried to talk me out of it. Polishing turds is part of the Jeep experience. Just don't do it again.

You know, most of us wheel far away from home. Moab is 8 hours for me, and many of the trails are at least two hours. I don't want to talk you out of the 60 per se...but poor pumpkin clearance is a major, major disadvantage, and one that can be difficult to overcome (you build a beast and then end up doing an awful lot of rock stacking even with your 35" tires). The Yota 8" is far from indestructible on 35" tires as it only has D44 sized shafts...but if you aren't an abusive driver you aren't likely to bust alloy shafts.

The 8" has the diff clearance of a D35. It is about 1" better than your 8.25, no comparison to a 60. I look at it this way: if you could reliably run 35" tires on a Dana 35, would you? Of course, the clearance would be unreal. This is what you get with the Toyota axle.

I was doing the 8" before I did my HP Currie 9". I found one out of a 2000 4Runner on car-parts.com with factory 4.56 gears and e-locker for $675 shipped to my door. Since I run 4.56's, this was absolutely ideal (no regear or locker costs...the entire assembly was the price of just an ARB). Just needed to redo the shafts in 5 on 5.5 and add a disc kit (just rotors and brackets since I had TSM on my 8.25), and I had a selectable locker, 4.56 gears, and plenty of strength for 35's for well under $1,500.

But after paying the money, the yard shipped my axle to another yard...they were trying to screw me or something so I got my money back and decided to go the high pinion route and haven't looked back. I didn't get the shaved 9" because I put too many miles on it, and the reduced fluid capacity was something I wanted to avoid.

Still, your ultimate solution is one of these customized 60's with better than D44 clearance...but you have to trust the fluid capacity is sufficient in hot and humid Tidewater VA :flame: .

Nay

You got something against Tidewater?

Safari Ary said:

You got something against Tidewater?

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We fly in every year on the way to the Outer Banks. My wife has family there. I love the Tidewater area...but it is hot as hell and even more humid and I am always ready to leave because compared to here it feels like a swamp. Actually, compared to here it is a swamp. Plus I got mugged in Norfolk when I was 17 and never got over the humiliation :dunce: .

Do the police in VA Beach allow 35" tires and such? I'd heard that some of the larger the VA coastal communities were strictly enforcing this stuff.

Nay

"Boy, yer in HEN-RI-CO County now!" - redneck VA State patrolman, circa 1988.

Do the police in VA Beach allow 35" tires and such? I'd heard that some of the larger the VA coastal communities were strictly enforcing this stuff.

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thats how the costal communities squeeze every last cent out of their visitors, or atleast thats how it goes down here in NC.

If the speed limit sign says 15 you better not be going anything over 12

Nay said:

We fly in every year on the way to the Outer Banks. My wife has family there. I love the Tidewater area...but it is hot as hell and even more humid and I am always ready to leave because compared to here it feels like a swamp. Actually, compared to here it is a swamp. Plus I got mugged in Norfolk when I was 17 and never got over the humiliation :dunce: .

Do the police in VA Beach allow 35" tires and such? I'd heard that some of the larger the VA coastal communities were strictly enforcing this stuff.

Nay

"Boy, yer in HEN-RI-CO County now!" - redneck VA State patrolman, circa 1988.

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LMAO, stop in and say hello next time you're in town. As for VA Beach allowing 35" tires, as long as I'm under the state bumper/frame height limitatiosn, I'm in the clear. A buddy of mine has a WJ on coilovers and 38s running 11" of lift and he's going to get harrassed a LOT, but I think I'll be fine on 6-7" and 35s.

And yes, Tidewater IS a swamp, there's no two ways about it. I'm not a native of Tidewater, so I know what you mean about how humid it is. Although I've always lived on the East Coast and it's just too damn dry out there on your side of the country.

Nay said:

The Yota 8" is far from indestructible on 35" tires as it only has D44 sized shafts

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Toy shafts are basically indentical in size and spline count to D44 shafts, but for some reason (materials? design?) they fare much better. One excuse that is often heard is that the Toy guys are only using 4 bangers with 120 horsepower. WELL, many are also running crawl ratios in the 2-300 range, which is putting more torque to the axles than the around 80:1 that many people run with a 200 hp 4.0. Plus, the Toy guys almost all use manual trannies which give more shock loads to the axles than an auto. And Plus Plus, a lot of Toy guys are useing 4.3 chevy v6s now too.

sure, there are people that could break 35 spline d60s with superior chromo shafts with 35 inch tires, but unless you're in that 1/2 percent the Toy axle will hold up great to 35s.

Another thing, is there any reason that you would be stuck with 5 on 5.5 up front? You could use Chevy or Waggy outers and do 6 on 5.5 to match the Toy rear with no need for redrilling them.

I spent about a year seriously researching and just deciding which axles to swap in place of my D30/35. I think I seriously considered every possible combination. I am convinced that Toy rear axles are THE BEST thing going for 33-37 inch tires (aside from spending the ultra-bling on Pro-Rock 60s or something). Match it with any D44 front you like, Waggy or Chevy already has 6 lug, or put 6 lug outers on a Ford axle. The only thing close in my mind is the 70s F-150 axles, HPD44/ford9".

Max, I already have the front axle built that is the reason for going with the ford bolt pattern, although I suppose it's only the hub and rotor that would need to change since I'm running chevy knuckles and spindles. I'm gonna start pricing stuff and it might just be best to go with custom shafts from the get go and stay with 5x5.5 I have to consider my options, but it seems that the Tacoma rear axle at 60" wide is the best bet so far. Is there any reason not to go with this axle??