Another clutch discussion

So i have done some research, and it seems the debate on clutch swaps gets a little heated. From what I can tell, using an oem clutch is your best bet on a stock motor, however as time goes on, my heep gets further and further from stock. basically, this is what I am dealing with.
1999, 2dr, 4.6 stroker, ax-15, 231, 3.07, 31 truxus mt, 4.5"
The clutch was replaced at around 180k, 5k before I got it (completely stock). I then lifted it, drove about 2500 miles, and put in the stroker. I have since put about 5k+ on it. The clutch now is beginning shudder or chatter, whatever you want to call it, upon takeoff, and shifting into second. The stick slaps around, especially if its an ugly takeoff. also, It is occasionally difficult to downshift to second or first when the tranny is cold, but going up is never a problem (dont know if its related). So I know I am dealing with several problems here. I have a set of motor/ tranny mounts to put in, however the old ones were not bad when I did the engine. Hopefully though, that will take care of the stick slapping around. I also have a set of 4:10 axles to put in as soon as i get perches on the 8.8, and spacers on the wj knuckles. I am thinking those mods should take care of the reasons why my clutch went bad so fast, but my new dilemma is which clutch to get as a replacement. Right now my motor is a bit weak as it still has stock intake and exhaust. Ill be going with a mustang 5.0 throttle body and cone filter, as well as 2.5 from the headers back to reach its real potential. My question now it what clutch to replace mine with. I have heard good things about luk, and centerforce (except for the weights sticking), but Id really like to know what others with strokers are running successfully. My rig sees 99% road use as I use it mostly to haul up I-70 in the snow to go skiing. That being said, I dont want something that will burn up sitting in 10 miles of uphill traffic on a 7% grade.
Sorry its long-winded, I didnt want to leave anything out.
any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lightfoot

I've always had good luck with the stock replacement Luk clutch kits. I currently have the stock Luk clutch living behind my 4.7 without issues.
The 31s and 3.07 likely caused glazing on your newish clutch leading to the shudder. The 4.10 gears will help.

IMO ... Jes hit the nail on the head. The gearing isn't helping your situation, despite the extra torque of the stroker motor.


I also have to question the driver. Resting your foot on the pedal is not a good thing. Neither are "soft" shifts (to ease driveline lurching).



You said the clutch was changed. Was the flywheel resurfaced? A lot of shops do not always cut the flywheel (why ... I will never know).



Personally ... I have thumbs down to Centerforce. My most consistent results are with the LUK Rep Gold clutch. On my own motor, I am trying a Kevlar/Ceramic clutch made by a local shop. I will be reporting on that after the truck is running.


Your downshifting issue could be related to wearing parts. A fluid change would be the place to start. Look into either Amsoil's MTG or Redline's MT-90. See what happens there before condemning the internals to failure.


Joe

Side note on flywheel resurfacing. Yes, they always should be resurfaced, however the AX15 flywheel should not as it has a slightly contoured finnish.
When I redid the clutch on my junk with the 4.7 I got a new flywheel. Unfortunately the price for them now has gone through the roof, so on my daily driver I just ended up scuffing the flywheel with 300 grit sand paper. Seems to be fine and that flywheel has 120,000 miles on it.

Contoured finish? How is that possible? Unless you are referring to a "step" deign.


To me ... a contour means a curved surface. That won't work with a clutch.



The step can be machined a few times before you are out of material. Assuming no heavy glazing or scoring, a machinist only needs to take a few thousandths off. Here is a good example ... my wife's XJ ... 210 K when we decide to replace the clutch. We only needed to take off 5 thousandths to get a fresh bite. Worst I've seen was 15 and change. That was a lot of cutting ... put the flywheel close to it's maximum.



Joe

Hey, I only go by what the FSM says.

I forgot to mention that the transmission is a rebuilt unit that I put in when I bought the jeep, and I changed the clutch fluid. I dont know about the flywheel, however I believe the work was done at a dealership, so it should have been either resurfaced or replaced.
As far as driver error, im not going to say something like "its impossible because ive been driving a stick for 25 years" because ive only been old enough to drive for 5. I learned to drive on a stick, and have had three more trucks that were standard since then. Id rate myself as atleast pretty good at it, and i am always conscious of trying not to slip the clutch.
If the flywheel is just glazed from the taller gears, would it be possible to just live with the chatter for now, and when I change my gears go in and scuff it up without changing the disc? That is assuming there is still meat and fairly even wear on it. I have the time to do the work but dont have, or would rather not spend the money if I dont need to. What do you guys think?
also, for what its worth, the chatter is worse in 4wd
Thanks for all the input

I have been there done this..... all i can say is awesome-too many people say naw dont need it stock is fine--but i guess a dana 30 and dana 35 is perfect for 37's,,,yeah right- everything gets modified but the clutch- i dont believe that crap and love my clutch from zoom http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=919616
click above and schroll down and click on my photo link-trust me i tried to burn it-i pulled a fully loaded 18 wheel truck and trailer up the ramp at work that had a failing clutch-pulled it after all 4 tires started to smoke!!! naw i didnt heat it up much!!!!

1. Try draining the AX15 and putting in a good synthetic motor oil, I use Mobil-1 10w30. You should see an immediate shift improvement, more so in cold weather.

I agree that replacing the transmission and engine mounts should get rid the shifter running around.

The FSM says that IF the flywheel requires surfacing it is to be replaced. Why? The biggest issue reported is that SOME that have had their flywheels resurfaced LOOSE clutch disengagement after a couple of months. NOT ALL, but some. Old Man had this problem and installed an aftermarket clutch MC with a larger bore, he said that took care of his problem. I believe he used a HOWE racing MC. Obviously Chryco realized there was an issue, and didn't want all the dealerships screaming at them that the clutch jobs they just did are screwing up. However, as I have said, only SOME have reported the problem, others claim they have had their flywheels surfaced without any problems. Caveat Emptor.

As for the clutch. At what RPM will your finished stroker be operated? Some have reported problems with the Centerforce pressure plates with the centrifugal weights. My theory on that problem is that at the RPMs the 4.0 operates the weights don't get enough "exercise" and end up sticking after a short time.

The weights have been working fine on my DF2 for >40K, 20K of those in the stroker(they see 5Krpm regularly). I did have my flywheel machined and .004-.006" was removed.