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ZJ Discs on an XJ Dana 44 Complete

Harvo

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Chattanooga
This is a wrap up post to the Double Disc Brake Conversion Post. Hopefully someone searching in the future will find this useful.

I swapped in an XJ Dana 44 in place of mt 8.25 rear that already had the ZJ Brakes on it from a previous conversion. The goal was to keep the rear discs without having to even bleed the brake lines.

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/BAzjRearDiscsOnXJ/ZJrearDiscsOnXJ.htm

I started with the above "how to" article and went from there. Machining the caliper brackets was no problem. I know someone with a machine shop who did the work professionally. When you do this swap, there is a gap created by the thicker caliper mount. Rather than having a custon spacer made to fill the gap and hold the axle bearing in, I took the advice of member Stoneattic and used a stock plate that Rubicons use for the same purpose.

Of course Rubicons have a different axle flange stud pattern at the end, so I had to redrill the plates to match the holes that I had just machined into the caliper brackets. That was easy enough to do myself.

Something no one mentions in the how to articles is that if you are cheap and using the axle bearings that are already on the rear end, the plates won't slide over the bearings to the spot they need to be... so you have to cut them in half, position them, and then sandwich them in between the stock bearing retainer plate that is already on the axle, and the caliper bracket.

This sounded easy, but I learned a few things. Cut the bracket in half horizontally and not vertically. I did one vertically first. It worked, but in sandwiching it in, the stock plate applies pressure on the ends and wants to make the center (Where I cut) deflect outward. The stock bearing plate flexed enough to let it too. By cutting them in half horizontally, there is less deflection becasue there is less space between the studs in that direction.
 
The axle flange studs had to be replaced with longer ones because the caliper bracket makes the whole assembly thicker. The articles suggested grade 8 bolts, gave the size, and length, but didn't say anything about if you should use the original nuts or not. I looked for grade 8 machine threaded bolts in the proper size so I could use the locking nuts.

I struck out, so I used standard course thread, regular nuts, and locktite. I hope I don't have any troubles with those getting loose.

After getting it all bolted up, I discovered I needed new wheel studs because the stock D44 ones were too short to run the wheel spacers I had planned on using. Off it all came to punch out and replace the wheel studs.

88/89 XJ dana 30 front wheel studs work just fine. They are longer for some reason and were easy to get at autozone. I have heard that 99 + model rear studs will work too, but I did not confirm that.

With everything as it should be... I bolted it all back up, slipped on the calipers and viola... the brake conversion was done without having to bleed the brakes.

While doing this job I also had to regear the D44, and I put in a Lock Right as well. I used the spacers becasue I had a set of TJ Canyon wheels in my basement that I wanted to use. I put a Warn 9000xdi from my old CJ on the bumper and wired into the dash switch too, so now I think I'm ready to go.
 
Nice I just got my Dana 44 in, and I want to do the same conversion, how much did this cost total?
 
Harvo said:
The articles suggested grade 8 bolts, gave the size, and length, but didn't say anything about if you should use the original nuts or not. I looked for grade 8 machine threaded bolts in the proper size so I could use the locking nuts.

I struck out, so I used standard course thread, regular nuts, and locktite. I hope I don't have any troubles with those getting loose.

Gotta use grade 8 or equivalent. The originals were grade 8, why go with less?
Find a place that specializes in, you guessed, bolts and nuts. Look in the yellow pages under bolt. Measure the combined thickness of flange, bracket and retainer, go to the bolt specialist and get grade 8s that have a solid shank to match the thickness of your parts regardless of overall length. These bolts come with a long threaded portion, so, cut off the threaded portion that you don't need. They also carry nuts to match, low profile self locking.
Another way is to go to the airport and buy aviation bolts such as NAS6206-x where x is the thickness of the parts in 16ths. They may also have nuts to match the bolts. They have some molycoated nuts that are strong, small and the wrench size is 2 sizes smaller than normal.
The bolts are high strength cadmium plated steel.
All these, just like the originals, come in fine thread. I'd get rid of those coarse thread bolts that you installed. The original nuts are OK if in good shape and still self locking.
 
WaXJ_Skier said:
Nice I just got my Dana 44 in, and I want to do the same conversion, how much did this cost total?

I already had the brakes on my 8.25 axle, so all I had to do was modify them. If you have to buy the brackets, rotors and calipers, I'm not sure what it would cost you from a junkyard.

Once you get them, modifying them to fit the 44 cost about $60 +/-

Bearing plates from a Rubicom = $12 pr.
Machine work = about $40
New axle studs/hardware = about $10
 
Harvo said:
Something no one mentions in the how to articles is that if you are cheap and using the axle bearings that are already on the rear end, the plates won't slide over the bearings to the spot they need to be... so you have to cut them in half, position them, and then sandwich them in between the stock bearing retainer plate that is already on the axle, and the caliper bracket.


Ok so Im kinda lost here ..you bought the reatiner plates and didnt use em.

I was understatnding that if you buy the plates from an 03 rubicon


they match the bolt pattern of the caliper mounting bracket

Harvo said:
I already had the brakes on my 8.25 axle, so all I had to do was modify them. If you have to buy the brackets, rotors and calipers, I'm not sure what it would cost you from a junkyard.

Once you get them, modifying them to fit the 44 cost about $60 +/-

Bearing plates from a Rubicom = $12 pr.
Machine work = about $40
New axle studs/hardware = about $10

then you say in the write up that you are using the Xj pates YES?

"The XJ D44 bearing retainer plate overlaid on the caliper mounting bracket - showing the difference in flange bolt pattern, and the need to weld up and re-drill the caliper bracket."

why not just have the same machine shop press the reatiner plates from an 03 Rubicon

not sure if that makes sense

this write up
on basically says the same thing ZJ brakes on a 44 right

..or am I missing something here

http://www.stu-offroad.com/suspension/d44brake/bc-1.htm

and her states that hes sues a custom reatiner plate that he has made ...so he mdifies the pate not the caliper mounting braket OK but he goes on to say the the pates from a rubi eliminate the need for the whole custom spacer deal

"was involved in machining the custom retainers. I saw an '03 with discs on a lift and noticed that the rear discs on the 44 were identical to the ZJ discs. I wondered how the factory solved the problem and how much it would cost. It's cheaper that you would ever guess and here are a couple of pics with the part number.




My retainer is shown next to the factory one (factory on the right). The factory part number is 1-05083678AA. Two are required. Cost should be less than 6.00 for both.

NOTE: Another Jeeper forwarded me a note that said his dealership listed the above part # as 5083678AA. It took them a while to find what he wanted using the number previously mentioned. Sounds like a different release of the parts list, or something like that. Anyway, just a heads up that you might find it using either number.

So folks, you can thank the DC engineers for making an inexpensive alternative to the machine custom retainer. While this won't make anything else any cheaper, it will allow anyone to now go and scour the junk yards for the ZJ parts and stop off at the DC dealership for the "custom part"."


yoiurs if the last post I have seen on this swap so I figured I would ressurct it for ya
 
WaXJ_Skier said:
Nice I just got my Dana 44 in, and I want to do the same conversion, how much did this cost total?

so far its 165 from the junker for the parts at car-part.com
every thing
from the backing plates out

bout 30 buks each for new rotors
new calipers will be about 30 each plus
core if ya dont have the oldies
new softlines to connect the calipers
bout 15 each

axle studs so the lugs have enough engagement is about 20 (or 40) if have spares......... online

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...tNumber=6413115&Description=Wheel+Bolt+-+Rear


also new rubi plates 5 buks each at mopar online plus shipping

min order 20 so I bought 4 cause I have spares..

hers the kicker on this

Y a beter have a press

you have to put the new studs on the rotors ..and change the reatainer plates on all the axles..

harbor freight has em for about 150 with anchor plates
and while there get a bearing seperater for the press
20 buks
and im not sure yet but gonna have to rigup somethin to hold th eseperator and the bottom of the press if the are tall enough
 
VegasAnthony said:
Ok so Im kinda lost here ..you bought the reatiner plates and didnt use em.

The caliper mounting bracket is thicker than the original drum brake plate.
The original retainer plate was made to work with the drums. It puts pressure on the seal and keeps the axle shaft from coming out.
If you tried to use the original plate as is with the disc brake bracket, it would leave a gap which is no good.
So, you need to make up the difference and fill the gap.
There are two ways to do it.
1. You manufacture a spacer and use the original retainer plate, or
2. You buy the Rubicon plate which is thicker at the shaft hole and doesn't need a spacer and you use that only, nothing else.
 
falcon556 said:
The caliper mounting bracket is thicker than the original drum brake plate.
The original retainer plate was made to work with the drums. It puts pressure on the seal and keeps the axle shaft from coming out.
If you tried to use the original plate as is with the disc brake bracket, it would leave a gap which is no good.
So, you need to make up the difference and fill the gap.
There are two ways to do it.
1. You manufacture a spacer and use the original retainer plate, or
2. You buy the Rubicon plate which is thicker at the shaft hole and doesn't need a spacer and you use that only, nothing else.
yea going that way is good ..now am reading on this
SyCo said:
Tonight, we shaved off .035 from the built-in spacers on the Rubicon retainer plates, as well as installed the speedi-sleeves on the axleshafts. Pressed on new seals, bolted everything back up, and so far, so good. I'm going to give it another few days before I pass final judgement, but I hope this is the solution to my problems.

This is something to think about for all those who are contemplating the ZJ disc conversion on the 44. EVERYTHING I read has stated that the Rubicon plates would work 100%, and they did not work for me. Perhaps there are slight variances between the XJ Dana 44s and TJ Dana 44s where the Rubicon spacers are too wide, but for those of you who are using these plates with the ZJ disc backing plates and aren't having problems, then maybe there's something going on with my particular set up. I don't know, I just know that it pays to invest in a good set of calipers and measure everything before bolting it together.

I'll chime in with an update and some pics in the next few days. Thanks again to everyone who has responded, and I hope this is the last of my troubles.


so anyone reading this this mod to the rubi plate is prolly a good idea
 
VegasAnthony said:
yea going that way is good ..now am reading on this



so anyone reading this this mod to the rubi plate is prolly a good idea

I had to shave about .035" I am not sure it was necessary though.
 
VegasAnthony said:
so far its 165 from the junker for the parts at car-part.com
every thing
from the backing plates out

bout 30 buks each for new rotors
new calipers will be about 30 each plus
core if ya dont have the oldies
new softlines to connect the calipers
bout 15 :edit 30 each from autozone..............each

axle studs so the lugs have enough engagement is about 20 (or 40) if have spares......... online
another edit dana 30 studs will work and can be had at autozone for bout 2.50 each

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...tNumber=6413115&Description=Wheel+Bolt+-+Rear


also new rubi plates 5 buks each at mopar online plus shipping

min order 20 so I bought 4 cause I have spares..

heres the kicker on this

Y a beter have a press

you have to put the new studs on the rotors ..and change the reatainer plates on all the axles..

harbor freight has em for about 150 with anchor plates
and while there get a bearing seperater for the press
20 buks
and im not sure yet but gonna have to rigup somethin to hold the seperator and the bottom of the press if the are tall enough

looks like another $50 for the currie brake line kit
ohh and the quote from the junker included a mc from the donor vehicle bout $35
 
VegasAnthony said:
looks like another $50 for the currie brake line kit
ohh and the quote from the junker included a mc from the donor vehicle bout $35

Don't forget to take some step by step pictures.
 
VegasAnthony said:
so far its 165 from the junker for the parts at car-part.com
every thing
from the backing plates out

bout 30 buks each for new rotors
new calipers will be about 30 each plus
core if ya dont have the oldies
new softlines to connect the calipers
bout 15 each

axle studs so the lugs have enough engagement is about 20 (or 40) if have spares......... online

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpag...tNumber=6413115&Description=Wheel+Bolt+-+Rear


also new rubi plates 5 buks each at mopar online plus shipping

min order 20 so I bought 4 cause I have spares..

hers the kicker on this

Y a beter have a press

you have to put the new studs on the rotors ..and change the reatainer plates on all the axles..

harbor freight has em for about 150 with anchor plates
and while there get a bearing seperater for the press
20 buks
and im not sure yet but gonna have to rigup somethin to hold th eseperator and the bottom of the press if the are tall enough


Ok getting into this it turns out that getting the bearings off a axle with a press and a blow torch is no easy feat..

so the other optiion is to buy new wheel bearings and use a cutoff tool to get the old bearings off..now they come with new races and you SHOULD install new raceswith new bearings ..more on that later

another $30 per side .in my case 4x 30 cause I have spares..i looked at the way the backing plates need to be dril and holes oblonged..wow it leaves a lot of chance for slop ..then again I dont know how much stress those components have witht the weight of th rig on it..the only need to keep the bearings situated in the race..
 
VegasAnthony said:
Ok getting into this it turns out that getting the bearings off a axle with a press and a blow torch is no easy feat..

I wouldn't even try.
I drill a 1/4" hole on the retainer ring, don't go too deep and touch the axle shaft.
Hit the hole with a chisel and the ring will crack and come off.
Next I use a cutting wheel to cut the inner bearing race almost all the way through and then I hit it with a chisel to crack it.
Given how much pressure it takes to go on, I don't think it is possible to press a bearing off.
 
falcon556 said:
I wouldn't even try.
I drill a 1/4" hole on the retainer ring, don't go too deep and touch the axle shaft.
Hit the hole with a chisel and the ring will crack and come off.
Next I use a cutting wheel to cut the inner bearing race almost all the way through and then I hit it with a chisel to crack it.
Given how much pressure it takes to go on, I don't think it is possible to press a bearing off.

crap the bearings are easy (even reused one) is was that damn collar that got me....but add some heat and it slips right back on the axle

two notes on this swap that i havent read anyone


one is that finding the right new lug bolts is not that easy ..ended up witha .625 knurl on mine and they were a bear to get on..

also if ya have the capability and your seals and bearings are good just cut the rubi plates to fit and then carefully weld end them back up with a nice,,,finsih this would make it soooooooo much easier


oh and one last thing
i not sure if anyone mentioned but the bearings dont actually engage the colar..

the bearings are actually pressed jsut a tad further into the axle

so all together let me see..165 fir the junker parts...including a douuble diapharm boster
70 for rotors 25 for pads
currie brake line kit 50
new grade 8 hard warde 10
grinding heads 20
new lug bolts 25
fluid 5
25 each bearing
new seals 8 each


a garage full of tools grinders drill press ect..
brake flaring tool 22
brake line 5
lunch
and dinner
and lunch
and dinner

disks on my 44


priceless
 
Last edited:
VegasAnthony said:
oh and one last thing
i not sure if anyone mentioned but the bearings dont actually engage the colar..

priceless

According to a 1987 XJ manual about a shaft that is either a D44 or early D35 with the same bearing setup, the bearing and collar are supposed to be installed together. To me that means that the collar pushes the bearing till there is no more movement. That would mean that the collar is smack against the bearing.
This is how I did mine.
 
falcon556 said:
According to a 1987 XJ manual about a shaft that is either a D44 or early D35 with the same bearing setup, the bearing and collar are supposed to be installed together. To me that means that the collar pushes the bearing till there is no more movement. That would mean that the collar is smack against the bearing.
This is how I did mine.

I agree but when i checked the oem placement of the bearings there was defintly a gap tween the bearing and ccolar ..go figure??:huh:
 
How would I get the bearing retainer off my D44 axle shaft? I dont want to mess it up but need to replace the seals. Besides braking it and heating it, would you recomend hitting it off?
 
Last edited:
SketchyXJ said:
How would I get the bearing retainer off my D44 axle shaft? I dont want to mess it up but need to replace the seals. Besides braking it and heating it, would you recomend hitting it off?

The collar is the more difficult piece to remove. A good press could remove it. I have also heard of people spliting it. New bearings come with new collars.
 
Yea I searched better and have been reading how to split it with a dremel. I'm not looking foward to it, it seems like it'll be hard to cut. do you know if it'll cut easy or not? Thanks for your help!
 
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