XJ Rear disc swap with Pics!

[XJensen]

To be honest with you, I wouldn't go this way for an e-brake. As you know the "e" stands for emergency, which means that it is there for you to use in an emergency situation. The main emergency situation you would use the e-brake in would be in the event of a hydraulic failure, such as a burst line, etc. With that park-lok, if you lose hydraulics, you lose both the brakes and your sole back up for events like this, leaving you SOL.

Having personally been experienced hydraulic failures that required me to use the e-brake (both on and off road), I would never use that type of system for an e-brake.

My rear disk set up on my D44 is:
Explorer rear brakets/caplipers/pads/e-brake set up and ZJ rotors drilled to 5x5.5

Works good.

That is a good point and adding it would add a potential point of failure....

Maybe I will need to do the explorer deal...

 

[CharlesS]

What year of Cadillac calipers will fit on these brackets and have the built-in ebrakes?

You can use the rear calipers from a '79-85 Eldorado, '80-85 Seville or Oldsmobile Toronado...
I have run this setup for over 11 years...
You can use your original emergency brake cables as long as you remove the tightly wound spring from the end of each cable.
The cable and button on the end just slip into the actuating arm on the caliper.

 

[XJensen]

You can use the rear calipers from a '79-85 Eldorado, '80-85 Seville or Oldsmobile Toronado...
I have run this setup for over 11 years...
You can use your original emergency brake cables as long as you remove the tightly wound spring from the end of each cable.
The cable and button on the end just slip into the actuating arm on the caliper.

This is exactly what I am looking into doing. I am just looking into the years and models for the best option.

I have found that some year ranges and models are very rare while others are easier to find than others and cheaper. Not to mention some are metric and some SAE, the SAE having a larger piston and pad.

I will do a write up whenever I get things figured out and installed. Thanks for all the help, this thread had a lot of great info.

josh

 

[CharlesS]

More than 10 years ago I did a write up on MadXJ, but I haven't seen the article in many years.

 

[customcreationsllc]

I understand the need for Emergency brake and I think it is required to be street legal.

However brake masters are divided into 2 section front and rear so you would need to blow both lines at the same time to loose all your bakes then you would need an E-brake even if you loose your front brakes you pedal will do more than an E-brake could.
I've lost my share of brake lines on the road as well as off road and don't think I ever used the e-brake in any case.
The e-brakes barely slow down the vehicle try using your e-brake and let me know.
Ever forget and E-brake on and drive around? You can get pretty far before you realize the E-brake was left on.
Ever see how small those E-brake shoes are?

With that being said I personally I'm not afraid of not having an E-brake and just having a Hydro parking brake or even just park if it is an auto.

It's your butt so do as you wish I was just trying to let you know there are options.

 

[Begster]

I understand the need for Emergency brake and I think it is required to be street legal.

However brake masters are divided into 2 section front and rear so you would need to blow both lines at the same time to loose all your bakes then you would need an E-brake even if you loose your front brakes you pedal will do more than an E-brake could.

Ya, that is pretty much a load of crap. I know this is what is said, but if you have ever blown a line, you lose all brakes. Path of least resistance. You'll still maybe get some braking power in the other end that you didn't blow, but man its not much

I've lost my share of brake lines on the road as well as off road and don't think I ever used the e-brake in any case.
The e-brakes barely slow down the vehicle try using your e-brake and let me know.

Adjust your ebrake properly then. I have used my ebrake to slow down a vehicle, and I am letting you know it does work.

Ever forget and E-brake on and drive around? You can get pretty far before you realize the E-brake was left on.

Once again, adjust your ebrake properly. I have not been able to move a vehicle before since an ebrake has been applied

Ever see how small those E-brake shoes are?

With that being said I personally I'm not afraid of not having an E-brake and just having a Hydro parking brake or even just park if it is an auto.

It's your butt so do as you wish I was just trying to let you know there are options.

 

[customcreationsllc]

I don't know how to quote a quote.

I understand the need for Emergency brake and I think it is required to be street legal.

However brake masters are divided into 2 section front and rear so you would need to blow both lines at the same time to loose all your bakes then you would need an E-brake even if you loose your front brakes you pedal will do more than an E-brake could.

Ya, that is pretty much a load of crap. I know this is what is said, but if you have ever blown a line, you lose all brakes. Path of least resistance. You'll still maybe get some braking power in the other end that you didn't blow, but man its not much

Your completely wrong on this brake system have been completely divided front and rear for 50 plus years you loose one line front or rear and you still have the other set of brakes from your pedal yes you will loose a little brake fluid but there will be enough in the system to stop, why do you think your master has a little divider in it.

What least resistance? they are two completely different systems you will not loose brake fluid from the other system. Even if you run the reservoir dry there will be enough fluid in the piston to still top.
Unless you have a faulty combination valve which has a little shuttle valve the pops over the trigger the brake light and slows down the brake fluid loss.

How many times have you lost your brakes? most costumers don't even know the blew a rear brake line just know it doesn't stop quite the same. fronts you will notice but still stop.

Not saying your e-brakes do nothing but saying they don't do much.



I'll just add your other two comments here.

Adjust your e-brake that should be a given, but it still doesn't make them any more powerful. A lot of e-brakes have limits built in so you cannot over pull the cable.
If you max out the E-brake on the 3rd click or the last click you will have the same brake force.
My comment on driving through the brakes some cars have better e-bakes and will hold the car stopped but with large tires, low gears, big engine, you will push right through a little e-brake any day. If you are not looking for a little resistance you can easily drive right through an e-brake done it before.

I'm not trying to tell someone to run without a e-brake that is why I made them away you will loose the e-brake and what they would need to do to keep it. However I personally don't see it as a necessity.
They should make up there own mind.



I've lost my share of brake lines on the road as well as off road and don't think I ever used the e-brake in any case.
The e-brakes barely slow down the vehicle try using your e-brake and let me know.

Adjust your ebrake properly then. I have used my ebrake to slow down a vehicle, and I am letting you know it does work.

Ever forget and E-brake on and drive around? You can get pretty far before you realize the E-brake was left on.

Once again, adjust your ebrake properly. I have not been able to move a vehicle before since an ebrake has been applied

Ever see how small those E-brake shoes are?

With that being said I personally I'm not afraid of not having an E-brake and just having a Hydro parking brake or even just park if it is an auto.

It's your butt so do as you wish I was just trying to let you know there are options.

 

[customcreationsllc]

This is a good read
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Brakes/

The most common type of MC in use today is known as a “dual-tandem” master cylinder. It has separate circuits (pistons and outlets) for front and rear brakes (“dual”), with each circuit having its own independent reservoir. The reason for this is safety – the theory is: if one circuit (front or rear brakes) should fail, there remains the other separate, independent circuit. The two pistons are arranged inline in a single bore (“tandem”). The piston closest to the pedal is the “primary” piston, and the other is the “secondary” piston. Normally, the primary piston operates the font brakes and the secondary piston the rear. Fluid reservoirs may be integrated or remote (attached to the cylinder via hoses). The most common design has the reservoir attached directly to the cylinder.

 

[MoparManiac]

I agree with everything you said custom.

The e-brake on my CTD (when it had rear drums) could stall it out in 1st gear :laugh:

Granted, that's no tiny e-brake.

 

[2stix]

if your master cylinders blows out, you WILL loose both front AND rear hydraulic brakes. THATS what the cable system is for on your "E" brake. if the piston in your master cylinder freezes/seizes, or blows the seals, your only two option are pulling your cable system e-brake, or wear out your addidas (think flinstones).

 

[XJensen]

I have been reading a ton on the caddy calipers and it seems they can be hard to adjust. I am still making my decision but decided to see what the california requirements are for a parking/emergency brake.

V C Section 26451 Parking Brake System


Parking Brake System

26451. The parking brake system of every motor vehicle shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) The parking brake shall be adequate to hold the vehicle or combination of vehicles stationary on any grade on which it is operated under all conditions of loading on a surface free from snow, ice or loose material. In any event the parking brake shall be capable of locking the braked wheels to the limit of traction.
(b) The parking brake shall be applied either by the driver's muscular efforts, by spring action, or by other energy which is isolated and used exclusively for the operation of the parking brake or the combination parking brake and emergency stopping system.
(c) The parking brake shall be held in the applied position solely by mechanical means.




V C Section 26450 Required Brake Systems


Required Brake Systems

26450. Every motor vehicle shall be equipped with a service brake system and every motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle, shall be equipped with a parking brake system. Both the service brake and parking brake shall be separately applied.
If the two systems are connected in any way, they shall be so constructed that failure of any one part, except failure in the drums, brakeshoes, or other mechanical parts of the wheel brake assemblies, shall not leave the motor vehicle without operative brakes.



seems like it's caddy or explorer brakes now...

 

[CharlesS]

The Cadillac emergency brake isn't hard to adjust if you know the steps involved.
If the calipers are newly installed loosen and disconnect the cable from the e brake actuator arms on the caliper, rotate the actuating arm clockwise to see how much the rotates clockwise, with the arm in the full clockwise position loosen up the 5/8" nut that retains the actuating arm and remove from the shaft, then reinstall the actuating arm to as close to the stop (6 o'clock position) and then snug down the retaining nut.
This will get you really close to the initial fully adjusted position and then readjust the cable to when the actuating arms are just barely starting to move. Cycle the emergency brake handle a few times to seat in cables and you should be set.
Just did this same sequence earlier today after replacing a caliper with a blown piston seal.
I have been using the Cadillac calipers for 11 years now and they have worked fine for me....

 

[yossarian19]

However brake masters are divided into 2 section front and rear so you would need to blow both lines at the same time to loose all your bakes .

So I've heard - however I've had the experience of blowing *one* brake fitting out and having the pedal go immediately to the floor, with no brakes except the E-brake which, thankfully, caught me. Don't trust the MC or the prop valve. In my single experience with this, neither one did a damn thing for me.

 

[XJensen]

I actually saw a set of SAE 1977 caddy rear calipers at the junk yard today. The car looked like it was left to rot in the woods before it made it to the yard though.

I ended up picking up a set of explorer backing plates and will most likely go this route.

That said I am not getting away from this type of caliper. I picked up a set of rear calipers for my 1998 saturn to convert and they are the same as the caddy caliper.

 

[matus2]

I don't know how to quote a quote.

I understand the need for Emergency brake and I think it is required to be street legal.

However brake masters are divided into 2 section front and rear so you would need to blow both lines at the same time to loose all your bakes then you would need an E-brake even if you loose your front brakes you pedal will do more than an E-brake could.

Ya, that is pretty much a load of crap. I know this is what is said, but if you have ever blown a line, you lose all brakes. Path of least resistance. You'll still maybe get some braking power in the other end that you didn't blow, but man its not much

Your completely wrong on this brake system have been completely divided front and rear for 50 plus years you loose one line front or rear and you still have the other set of brakes from your pedal yes you will loose a little brake fluid but there will be enough in the system to stop, why do you think your master has a little divider in it.

I am speaking from my own very scary experience when I say that if one line has a leak in it your entire brake system will fail. After wheeling one day, I didn't notice that one of my lines was loosened and leaking. We got on the highway and I set in on cruise control. When I got on the exit ramp I automatically hit the brake pedal to disengage the cc and it went to the floor and nothing happened. Thankfully the exit ramp was at a little bit of an incline and my parking brake worked well (locking up the rear tires a few times) I managed to not hit a single car at the intersection and although I crapped my pants no damage was done and everyone is still alive. I have a 2000 xj with stock brake system.

 

[kastein]

You're wrong, or the 2000s are different than 98s.

My rear brakes failed on my 98 XJ last week (rusted through line on the rear circuit exploded) and the brake pedal went nearly to the floor, but did stop the vehicle if I really stomped on it. I had to limp it home like that.

That being said, if one of your front lines blows, you are pretty much screwed. Between the front brakes doing 75% or more of the braking and the severe lack of proper pedal travel and linearity when a line is broken, I don't think you'd be able to stop at all with a bad front brake line.

 

[MaxxXJ]

So, I just bought a Dana 44 last friday and it is complete except for the brakes. The only thing left is the backing plate. With that being said. I'm trying to decide the easiest way to get it under my jeep and functional. I would like to go disc brakes but drums would work fine too. My question is this, if I was going to napa, car quest or o'rileys what's all needed to get my brakes back to working again??
Drums
Shoes
Hardware kit
Self adjusters
Wheel cylinders
The E brake cables are there

Am I missing anything?

I have an 89 Cherokee with a Dana 35, aside from drums and shoes how much of it is the same and will transfer over?

 

[XJensen]

I ended up dong this:

'95 Ford Explorer backing plates
ZJ rotors
"new" centric '95 ford explorer calipers
new centric '95 ford explorer calipers pads
two passanger side '95 ford explorer soft lines
new grade 8 backing plate bolts and flanged locking nuts
Teraflex spacers
those little Ruffstuff threaded tabs to mount the soft lines
new brake lines
change the wheel studs to some from a 2000+ dana 30, they are longer

I got all the centric stuff on Rockauto for less than PnP wanted for the crap in the yard.

It turned out pretty sweet! Also I don't know why everyone bitches about the Tearaflex spacers being a pain to slide in the axle tube. A little grease between it and the spacer works wonders.

 

[xjtrailrider]

I just did the ZJ disc swap yesterday. I was able to make the XJ E-brake cables work with the ZJ E-brakes by simply using a 1/8" cable clamp and drilling 2 holes in the ZJ brake lever. You just clamp the end of the cable to the lever with the "U" part of the clamp. You can use this as an adjuster as well.

Pics: Note, I did remove some of the spring on the end of my cables so that i would have some open cable space to clamp.

Top view with the cable connected