Why the end of America is closer than you think; a good read while wearing a foil hat

[Tom R.]

What I was asking was, "If there was a revolution like the one that started our country, what would the armed forces' reaction be?" Would they gun down their countrymen in an attempt to "restore order" or would they realize that the country is too screwed?

It's a good question and one I've asked myself. I don't know that anyone could know the answer really. We can just speculate based on informed and uninformed opinions.

Some things that come to mind when I ponder the scenario: military members traditionally are conservative in their political views (much of my hope for the military doing the right thing rests on this fact). There are liberals and progressives in the ranks, but they're in the minority. Many of my coworkers and I would never follow an illegal or unreasonable order, but I'm sure there are others who would. Hmmm....almost back to square one.

My take: things will need to get very ugly before a significant portion of the military says enough. Leaders will put the right spin on any situation and will probably be successful up to a point. If things get really out of hand, I'm confident sensible personnel will see through it and act accordingly. So, if a revolution did occur and enough civilians joined the cause (this is a critical point), I think the military is more inclined to join them rather than fight them.

 

[muddyrocks]

I beleive we all are on the same track here, uncertainty, but with knowlege of the dire potential and hope for the strength of the common plight.

I see what you are saying 8Mud and know that they are happier and in 'paradise' there. Simpler existence has a strong pull, does it not?

 

[XJEEPER]

Chuck Norris for President.......even if he didn't get the majority of votes, he'd still win.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=91103

 

[JNickel101]

Even more reason to move to TX then...and apply for citizenship

 

[vikingxj]

Yeah, but when this Washingtonian shows up, you're going to say, "They took our jobs!" :eyes:

My Dad told me about Chuck Norris last night.

I certainly hope things can remain on the tracks until a sane politician can get into office...2012 maybe?!!!1

 

[fscrig75]

"If there was a revolution like the one that started our country, what would the armed forces' reaction be?" Would they gun down their countrymen in an attempt to "restore order" or would they realize that the country is too screwed?

Its a very serious question, do we, current service members, follow our personal beliefs or do we follow the oath we have taken;

(Enlisted)
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

(Officer)
I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.

 

[Tom R.]

Its a very serious question, do we, current service members, follow our personal beliefs or do we follow the oath we have taken.

Sometimes they're one and the same. A government that gets out of control by assuming power from the people becomes a domestic enemy; hence, one of the purposes for establishing the 2nd Amendment.

 

[8Mud]

Its a very serious question, do we, current service members, follow our personal beliefs or do we follow the oath we have taken;

(Enlisted)
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

(Officer)
I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God.

That oath always meant a lot to me. even as an X Pat I've never untaken it.
I've never pledged allegiance to a foreign government.
Another saying that has always stuck with me is "If you live under the protection of a government, you are duty bound to support that government".
The phrase "I will bear true faith" seems the important part. The part where you have to follow your own conscience or in simpler terms do the right thing whenever possible.
Over here in the 60's it wasn't unusual for our unit to go out on maneuver. I never was one to blindly follow anybody and researched the areas we would maneuver in. They were predominantly Red (meaning communist leaning) and getting redder. We'd go out with the tanks and maneuver all over their corn and truck fields. Tear through town at 30-40 miles an hour, pile tons of the street onto the sidewalks with the tracks and occasionally drive over cars or guardrails. Generally just raising hell. We never did mess with the population though. We just tore some chit up, likely sent a message and scared the chit out of the part of population that still remembered WW II. We were actually still occupation forces back then.
Funny I used to live in one of those Red villages, I got orders to move on quick, cleaned my place out (did a good job of leaving it nice) and was gone without having a chance to talk to the landlord (I guess he was out of town). Three years later he saw me and chased me down in a supermarket parking lot, took me home for lunch and gave me my security deposit back.
Facing off with the Reds was one thing, even facing off with armed civilian resistance, I honestly don't know if I would shoot at a group of civilians of any flavor or nationality, without just cause. An order wouldn't be enough.

 

[scully]

hope the rest of the armed forces share your pov, for our sake.

 

[RichP]

That oath always meant a lot to me. even as an X Pat I've never untaken it.
I've never pledged allegiance to a foreign government.
Another saying that has always stuck with me is "If you live under the protection of a government, you are duty bound to support that government".
The phrase "I will bear true faith" seems the important part. The part where you have to follow your own conscience or in simpler terms do the right thing whenever possible.
Over here in the 60's it wasn't unusual for our unit to go out on maneuver. I never was one to blindly follow anybody and researched the areas we would maneuver in. They were predominantly Red (meaning communist leaning) and getting redder. We'd go out with the tanks and maneuver all over their corn and truck fields. Tear through town at 30-40 miles an hour, pile tons of the street onto the sidewalks with the tracks and occasionally drive over cars or guardrails. Generally just raising hell. We never did mess with the population though. We just tore some chit up, likely sent a message and scared the chit out of the part of population that still remembered WW II. We were actually still occupation forces back then.
Funny I used to live in one of those Red villages, I got orders to move on quick, cleaned my place out (did a good job of leaving it nice) and was gone without having a chance to talk to the landlord (I guess he was out of town). Three years later he saw me and chased me down in a supermarket parking lot, took me home for lunch and gave me my security deposit back.
Facing off with the Reds was one thing, even facing off with armed civilian resistance, I honestly don't know if I would shoot at a group of civilians of any flavor or nationality, without just cause. An order wouldn't be enough.

If you knew how much they got paid for those run over shrubs, trees and fences you would understand why they never complained. That german observer with the note pad was making them big $$$$$$$$. Did you know a 10 year old mercedes benz cost the same as a brand new one All those cars were not parked where they were by accident I can tell you that and in the winter they'd hose the streets down on corners and hills to make NOT running into that crumbling rock wall just a tad harder. Every time it got hit, the value went up, if 5 vehicles hit it that $1000 wall was now worth $5000....

 

[fscrig75]

That oath always meant a lot to me. even as an X Pat I've never untaken it.

Yes the oath is very important to me as well. Even though I might disagree with the Gov't, my oath will always lead me on the right track.
Yes there is always the lawful or unlawful order but during war, that line becomes very grey.

 

[fscrig75]

Sometimes they're one and the same. A government that gets out of control by assuming power from the people becomes a domestic enemy; hence, one of the purposes for establishing the 2nd Amendment.

And this is what makes the OP such a difficult situation. While I would like to believe that our Gov't could never become that bad, it can happen. The easiest answer is the Gov't are the defenders of the Constitution, which is what I have sworn to defend.

 

[8Mud]

If you knew how much they got paid for those run over shrubs, trees and fences you would understand why they never complained. That german observer with the note pad was making them big $$$$$$$$. Did you know a 10 year old mercedes benz cost the same as a brand new one All those cars were not parked where they were by accident I can tell you that and in the winter they'd hose the streets down on corners and hills to make NOT running into that crumbling rock wall just a tad harder. Every time it got hit, the value went up, if 5 vehicles hit it that $1000 wall was now worth $5000....

It was all part of the game, S-5 would follow along, listen to the stories, do a little community relations, throw some money around.
I remember one guy ran over a cow (the cow actually attacked the tank and lost) they paid for the cow, all of the milk it would have produced in it's lifetime, all of it's probable offspring and all of the milk they may have produced. That was one expensive pile of blood, guts and hamburger.
I remember one guy backed over the front of a Volkswagen, flattened it from the windshield forward. Climbed down and left a note under the windshield wiper. Asked him later what the note said, "Tough luck comrade".

 

[1985xjlaredo]

Good read for sure no need for a foil hat though. Just remember to buy ammo, it is not protected in the Constitution.

 

[RichP]

Anybody know how to manufacture primers at home ? Thats the weak link, powder you can make, bullets you can make and brass is reusable, primers though, that is a problem.

 

[8Mud]

Anybody know how to manufacture primers at home ? Thats the weak link, powder you can make, bullets you can make and brass is reusable, primers though, that is a problem.

Fulminate of Mercury (Mercury fulminate) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulminate_of_mercury.

Or in theory. you could get an artillery shell and probably use the propellant out of that. Many artillery projectiles use a mix of Nitrogen Iodide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_triiodide ,Pretty darned close to a primer mix. I've stepped on spilled granulated propellant before, typical nitrogen iodide reaction, friction sets it off and you get purple smoke. We'd actually use it for pranks, spread some on a concrete floor and wait for somebody to walk in, friction sets it off and when they start dancing around things get really funny.

Gun cotton makes an acceptable smokeless powder substitute, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_cotton

 

[RichP]

Fulminate of Mercury (Mercury fulminate) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulminate_of_mercury.

Or in theory. you could get an artillery shell and probably use the propellant out of that. Many artillery projectiles use a mix of Nitrogen Iodide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_triiodide ,Pretty darned close to a primer mix. I've stepped on spilled granulated propellant before, typical nitrogen iodide reaction, friction sets it off and you get purple smoke. We'd actually use it for pranks, spread some on a concrete floor and wait for somebody to walk in, friction sets it off and when they start dancing around things get really funny.

Gun cotton makes an acceptable smokeless powder substitute, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_cotton

The chemicals are fairly straight forward, it's forming the cups, anvils and whatnot for assembly that I'm curious about...

 

[XJ Eric]

I don't know why you all are worried about the national guard since by the time the current administation is done with the armed forces there won't be anybody left to gun down civilians in the street.

 

[RichP]

Saw an interesting graph on TV the other night that made quite a bit of sense to me. One end on the left was total government control, all the way on the right was anarchy. It graphs the move to the left as time goes by.
..........republicans
Total ----|-----------------------------1918-----------------------1780-----------anarchy
..........democrats

Shows no difference between the parties with respect to their views, only to both parties continued growth of government power and weakening of states and individual rights.

 

[Darky]

I heard a speaker the other day talking about how far down the road we've already gone in abandoning our own Constitution. Federal funding with strings attached? Do what we say or you don't get money. There goes the state's sovereignty. Unless the gov't of each state rejects federal funding. Not too likely. All these federal laws that override a state's law? Emissions, who can and cannot be charged for certain crimes, car safety requirements, school initiatives, etc. Where was any of that power delegated to the federal gov't? Or did they just kinda take it somewhere along the way because they can?