Which caliber would be better? (yay a gun discussion thread!)

[SeansBlueXJ]

Hey guys, I am looking for a mini-14 probably for my next toy, but I claim to be no expert on riffle cartridges. Which should I try to find? one in the .223, or one in the 7.62x39? I figure as far as finding surplus, both are probably pretty well widespread. What are the pro/con to each so far as power accuracy etc?

 

[Stallacrew]

.223 would be my personal choice due to the WIDE range of use, and availability. But that's just me.

 

[Mudderoy]

If you are going to use it to play with get the 223, if you want to be able to kill someone with it 7.62x39.

 

[8Mud]

Do some reading and research on the mini. I have one of the old models with the 1 to 10 twist, in .223. It is sure enough ammo finicky, it won't shoot anything but the 55 grain with a moderate powder with any sort of accuracy at distance.
I believe they made a 1 to 10 twist, a 1 to 7 twist and a 1 to 9 twist. If you want accuracy at distance match your ammo type and bullet weight with the twist.

 

[Backroads]

If your just going for a plinker, go .223. Its easier on the shoulder (not that the mini 30 isnt) but generally its a ''better' target gun. More varieties of ammo, but at the same time its going to be more expensive to shoot. If your looking for a plinker/all hell breaks loose when we hit the depression here in a couple years go for the mini 30. Its gonna be a better 'hunting' round. its got more power, and more energy in the larger caliber and will hit harder. and your right surplus ammo is cheap and readily avail. but the downside to 7.62 is its mostly gonna be steel cases, which will beat your gun up.

 

[SCW]

.223

Can we also critique your choice of rifle? I'm not a fan of the mini-14.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

.223

Can we also critique your choice of rifle? I'm not a fan of the mini-14.

Sure, if you have a similar suggestion I always like alternative suggestions. It's mostly for a plinker now but who knows, "all hell breaks loose" guns are nice. I dont hunt so it's just a target toy now. Im just debating between a mini-14 or a Blackhawk revolver in the 357/38 and 9mm combo.

 

[tbburg]

I prefer 308/30-06. Have a AR-15 with lots of toys hung off it, but my serious guns are both bolt -30s That said:
In my experience, the mil-surplus 7.62x39 is worthless crap. If you're buying it to hunt with, and want to hit reliably outside 100 yards, you have to buy expensive ammo anyway. Also, the surplus bullets are non-expanding.(actually, the 7.62x39 ammo we get now isn't true mil surplus anymore, no loss there,...) again, no good for hunting.( EDIT: I know, you said no hunting, but the accuracy problem is there even if you just "hunt" paper)
Having said that, I'm partial to the ranch rifle in 7.62.(I reload, so ammo cost isn't a factor) for the bigger bullet. If I was stuck buying factory ammo, I'd get the .223.
On the .223: X2 what 8mud said. Get a gun with the faster twist rate. A lot of newer factory loadings for the 223 and all the Mil-spec is 62-65gr, and most of the older 1in12/1in10 twist barrels won't stabilize the bullet.

Choice of gun, if you want to bling it out with light/dot scope/HUD/laser, etc, get an AR. Lot more toys, less weight, and a whole lot easier to put together.
For an actual "all hell broke loose" gun: Short AR-10/SR-25 or the Springfield SOCOM-16 or Scout squad(not the SOCOM-II, that big aluminum POS on the nose is useless ballast) http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=19
'Nother nice one, the SA-58 series: http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Carbine-Rifle-308-Cal/productinfo/SA58C18/
You might argue about price of the gun, but then, if all hell did break loose, do you want a cheap gun?

My actual "all hell broke loose" gun :http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=14&L=1

 

[SCW]

Sure, if you have a similar suggestion I always like alternative suggestions. It's mostly for a plinker now but who knows, "all hell breaks loose" guns are nice. I dont hunt so it's just a target toy now. Im just debating between a mini-14 or a Blackhawk revolver in the 357/38 and 9mm combo.

Does 'all hell break loose' on the wallet also, or are you trying to keep costs small? What's the budget?

The AR/M-16 and AK rifles are typically the first on the list of emergency rifles. You can get an OK AR for a little less than a grand, you get a good AK for half that. I find the AK to be less ergonomic, so you'll have to practice a little to be as proficient with it, but you should learn whatever you use anyway.

The Mini-14 is the worst of both worlds imo. Finiky like the AR is reputed to be (in 3-gun matches I see just as many failures with the AK, but that's a whole new pissing match) inaccurate like the AK, expensive mags and you can't get them in as many places or with as much capacity. I can get 30 round AR mags any day for $10, and that's for GOOD mags!

For 'all hell breaks loose', your best friend imo is a handgun. Eventually you have to leave the treehouse and venture off to the store. You won't be taking the AR/AK/Mini/long gun, you'll be stuffing your pockets with handguns and ammo.

If you don't reload the 7.62x39 is cheaper to shoot. You are better off being good with a second-tier rifle than being lousy with a top-drawer rifle. That means make sure you spend a lot in ammo and practice with the rifle. I shot 1500 rounds in my AR over the first 3 months I had it, but I've never been to boot camp to I had to learn the AR from scratch.

And yes, you can get a 7.62x39 AR. Bearing surface on the locking lugs is getting pretty small, but it can be done. Don't do it for your only AR, get the .223 AR. The AK-74 is a .223 if you want to go that way.

 

[RichP]

Well, if the stuff hits the fan like I think is going to happen I'd tend towards 223 and 308, imports may stop and sources dry up if it happens. You want a round that is used by your opposition if you don't have the ability to manufacture it.

 

[SCW]

Uh oh Rich. Did you just assume that you'd be shooting people who are going to war with a .223 or .308? That's a revolutionary thought.....

You'd better hope for change.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

yeah rich, if my enemy has .223 or .308 then this govt really went screwy... not that it's outside the realm of happening any more.

oh and just for you guys who like the anything in .30 something, i have a k98 with a ton of surplus ammo that shoots wonderfully, and a tired rem 700 in 30-06 that i inherited.

 

[tbburg]

yeah rich, if my enemy has .223 or .308 then this govt really went screwy,...

Anything wearing a blue helmet in this country won't be carrying an AK/RPK,.. and they wouldn't answer to this government.

If they ARE working for the government, do you care?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4
(If the NRAs "over the top/panic inducing" commentary bothers you, just skip in to 1 minute even and turn the volume down.)

 

[8Mud]

I'm a great believer in redundancy.
If I had to choose one weapon at a reasonable cost it would be a bolt action, in a common caliber (.308). Run of the mill Winchester or Remington bolt action with the best optics I could afford.
Having said that, a shotgun or carbine as backup and then a handgun for those reach out and touch you moments and at least two fighting knives.
Just for a realistic perspective, I've been shot at thousands of times, hit twice and one of those was from a guy on my side.
My main priority is hitting what I shoot at, (1) one shot one kill being the ideal, (2) spray and pray for those panic moments and (3) just plain old making noise and not doing anything at all as a last resort.
IMO if you can't do number one, your best recourse is to run, with maybe a little number 2 thrown in just to confuse things a little. Number 3 most times just draws attention to you and will add to your grief.

 

[Mudderoy]

Close in:
Shotgun, short barrel
High capacity pistol

Medium:
AK47 30 round mag about $350

Long Range:
Remington 700 .308 cal

Hunting for food:
.22 cal rifle, and the .308 above for bigger game.

 

[red91]

If it's good enough for Calahan, it's good enough for me!!

 

[IXNAYXJ]

Try an M1A.

-----Matt-----

 

[Skwerly]

If it's good enough for Calahan, it's good enough for me!!

OMG Yes! I love it! You da man!

 

[curbdog17]

I sold my AR-15 to buy a welder, i kept the AK-47. i like 7.62, but the ammo has got so ex$$pe$$ns$$iv$$e. i like my 22 again.

 

[Nuke Proof]

For home defense-12ga 00
For hunting-30.06 or .308
For cheap plinking-.22ca
For fun as hell plinking-.223/5.56 (and if anyone says that .223 won't kill, take a look at what PD's and the military carry.)
For HG-.40ca

Remember if you have a gun for HD and you end up shooting someone with it (justifiable self defense), LE will take the gun and it will literally take a court order to get it back. So use a cheap gun that you can get again easily. I have investigated cases where someone has used an antique/rare firearm for self defense and ended up losing it. Only to have it destroyed before they could get it back.

I have a collection of tactical firearms and none of which are for HD, that is taking care of by a modded Mossy 590.