what radiator to buy?

[Dirt Yota]

I just ordered the 2 row CSF today.

Reason I did not go with the champion? Because you are relying on someone else to tig weld that radiator together. And becasue I run the full kill Ron Davis in my desert off road truck and have had issues with craftsmanship(yes, thats an 800$ radiator that was defective). So I'm a little leery of full aluminum hand fab'd radiators now. I still do run the Ron Davis and after the little mishap, all was good.

I was thinking of running the 3 row, but really a 2 row is less dense which in my mind equals more airflow. Has anyone thought of running a DUAL pass radiator? that would be the best option for these jeeps it sounds.

Just my little .02 from a desert racer.

 

[Ecomike]

I just ordered the 3 row CSF here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140577597694?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 for $187.xx delivered.

I talked to Champion and CSF and a few distributors before I ordered. CSF confirmed that their all metal radiators, #2572 and 2290 for 87-90, do not have crimped on metal tanks, they are brazed (or soldered), The 3 row core at the middle is 1-13/16" thick, so it should work with a ZJ clutch if I ever add one to the 89. CSF also said that while they do make an all aluminum radiator for the XJ, HO years, 91 and up, he said the aluminum ones are subject to fail sooner than Copper/Brass, due to stray electric currents (poor grounds), electrolysis!!!! So I went with old tech, Copper/Brass.

 

[CJR]

Maybe I'm missing something here about these CSF radiators. But I seem to recall reading the CSF warranty info, I thought on this thread, and seeing a picture of a reinforcement bracket between the tank and core. Likewise, I recall the CSF comments that some mfgers don't use this bracket and therefore premature leaks result.

That's a little strange to me, since I used to watch radiator men unsolder end tanks from the core to mechanically "rod-out" each cooling tube to remove the scale build-up. Then they would simply re-solder the end tanks back on the core. You don't need any kind of reinforcement bracket to do that and those radiators lasted a very long time.

Maybe CSF needs to clarify the attachment technique for the end tanks and state, in writing and not verbally, that their radiators are soldered and not crimped. That would clear things up.

Best regards,

CJR

 

[volaredon]

Buy the best you can afford, 2 or 3 row.

YUP!!! Thats right! I could have bought a no name alum and plastic one anywhere intown for mine for $100 last year; I went to Advance and they had a 2 row copper/brass (dont see them very often any more) for $200; they had the alum POS in stock but I waited a day and got me a real radiator; it's what they call their "HEAT BUSTER" and was well worth the money... lifetime warranty.

 

[TRCM]

I just ordered the 2 row CSF today.

Reason I did not go with the champion? Because you are relying on someone else to tig weld that radiator together. And becasue I run the full kill Ron Davis in my desert off road truck and have had issues with craftsmanship(yes, thats an 800$ radiator that was defective). So I'm a little leery of full aluminum hand fab'd radiators now. I still do run the Ron Davis and after the little mishap, all was good.

I was thinking of running the 3 row, but really a 2 row is less dense which in my mind equals more airflow. Has anyone thought of running a DUAL pass radiator? that would be the best option for these jeeps it sounds.

Just my little .02 from a desert racer.

I ran an aluminum AFCO dual pass on a fullsize dodge that was really a 34" chevy core that I made brackets to mount it up. It worked, but it was no better than a standard single pass radiator.

With the smaller height of the cherokee core, I'd think it'd be very hard to get a dual pass to work properly.

 

[Ecomike]

Maybe I'm missing something here about these CSF radiators. But I seem to recall reading the CSF warranty info, I thought on this thread, and seeing a picture of a reinforcement bracket between the tank and core. Likewise, I recall the CSF comments that some mfgers don't use this bracket and therefore premature leaks result.

That's a little strange to me, since I used to watch radiator men unsolder end tanks from the core to mechanically "rod-out" each cooling tube to remove the scale build-up. Then they would simply re-solder the end tanks back on the core. You don't need any kind of reinforcement bracket to do that and those radiators lasted a very long time.

Maybe CSF needs to clarify the attachment technique for the end tanks and state, in writing and not verbally, that their radiators are soldered and not crimped. That would clear things up.

Best regards,

CJR

CSF also makes the plastic tank / aluminum core cheap radiators. That is where you saw the bracket details on the crimp jobs, the plastic tank chepos.

http://www.csfimports.com/tech.asp#headgear

 

[CJR]

Ecomike,

Thanks for re-calibrating me. I appreciate it! Didn't realize they also made radiators with plastic tanks and therefore didn't "see" the term "plastic in that writeup.

Best regards,

CJR

 

[Redsnake]

Update... I just noticed today that my 3-Row Champion Radiator started to leak down both side on the seams. This one has only been on my Jeep for ~ 2 months.

Going to get it replaced w/the 2-Row all aluminum version under warranty, but still no happy about this. I think I'll prefer the 2-row as it will give me a bit more clearance in front of the fan so I can get my Mechanical Fan Shroud back on... but we shall see how this turns out.

 

[Ben824]

Update... I just noticed today that my 3-Row Champion Radiator started to leak down both side on the seams. This one has only been on my Jeep for ~ 2 months.

Going to get it replaced w/the 2-Row all aluminum version under warranty, but still no happy about this. I think I'll prefer the 2-row as it will give me a bit more clearance in front of the fan so I can get my Mechanical Fan Shroud back on... but we shall see how this turns out.

I have the two row Champion and there is still no room to get the fan shroud back on and I bent some of the fins trying to do it.

 

[Redsnake]

I have the two row Champion and there is still no room to get the fan shroud back on and I bent some of the fins trying to do it.

I thought the 2-row was narrower than the 3-row? I don't have any cooling problems so far w/out the fan shroud, but then again it's been pretty cool temp wise outside so far.

 

[Ecomike]

I thought the 2-row was narrower than the 3-row? I don't have any cooling problems so far w/out the fan shroud, but then again it's been pretty cool temp wise outside so far.

Not always. They all seem to be using narrower tubes as they add more rows of tubes. In general the cores are a little thicker as you go from 1-2-3 rows, but not always. Only way to tell is to get the tube width specs, spacing or core thickness at the actual core! Also the core thickness is not the same on all 2 row, or all 3 row radiators!!!

 

[Ben824]

I thought the 2-row was narrower than the 3-row? I don't have any cooling problems so far w/out the fan shroud, but then again it's been pretty cool temp wise outside so far.

The 2 row Champion core is narrower than the 3 row Champion. The 2 row Champion I installed over the summer had a core that was 1/16 thinner in width than the 3 row CSF I was replacing that had gone bad. I was following and contributing to a thread at the time that had a member post pictures of his 3 row champion and it appears that they use the same tanks on both the 2 and 3 row units and just change the core thickness. The 3 row Champions have cores as wide as the thanks and the 2 rows have cores that are narrower than the width of the tanks.

Here is a pic to show how thick the core of the 2 row Champion is. The other radiator is the CSF 3 row CSF that I had for 7 years that started leaking where the core and the tanks meet.

 

[Redsnake]

Here is a pic to show how thick the core of the 2 row Champion is. The other radiator is the CSF 3 row CSF that I had for 7 years that started leaking where the core and the tanks

Thanks f the info & pic. I'll take a pic of the new 2-row vs the 3-row when I do the swap coming up f reference as well.

 

[carves]

Not always. They all seem to be using narrower tubes as they add more rows of tubes. In general the cores are a little thicker as you go from 1-2-3 rows, but not always. Only way to tell is to get the tube width specs, spacing or core thickness at the actual core! Also the core thickness is not the same on all 2 row, or all 3 row radiators!!!

X 2 on core tube types and size.

some examples --> http://www.adrad.com.au/manufacturing/tube_types/

Also relevant is the fin spacing and height.

Lotsa fins theoretically means better heat shedding ... but not if the fins are so close they actually restrict airflow ...

 

[Redsnake]

Another follow-up w/pics...

Here's the comparison of the 3-Core vs the 2-Core. The 2-Core is noticeably thinner and I was indeed able to add back my mechanical fan shroud. Running nice and stable around 200-205 on my gauge. Of course it's still quite cool/cold outside here in OK these days, but I doubt summer time temps will cause any trouble w/this radiator (assuming it doesn't leak or give me any problems)

 

[Redsnake]

Bumping this old thread again....

My 2-Core Champion Radiator (^ from above) is now leaking and I've decided to go w/the 3-Core all metal Radiator f/ CSF... via radiator barn. The 2-Core is leaking f/where the tank and core on the passenger side are welded together. That's 2 in ~ 1 year. VERY frustrating as these All Aluminum units look so much better to the eye than the all-black brass-copper CSF Radiators... but if they won't go longer than a year before leaking then they're just not worth it to me. I may see if I can get the 2-Core Champion welded up and keep it as a back-up, but we'll see. I may just take it to the recycle shop and get some $$ for it.

I had put the CSF 3-core all metal unit in my old '96 XJ and it was still going strong when I sold it earlier this year... that's about 5+ years.

 

[dieselenthusiast]

So far, I like my all aluminum FFD.