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What oil after stroker break in?
- Thread starter nectarXJ
- Start date
The K&N oil filters are junk. Use a Motorcraft FL1A. As for oil...I run Mobil 1 in just about everything. Buy the 5 quart jug at Wally World plus an extra quart. You aren't running anything hard enough where the more exotic oils will make any difference. I was the shop manager for an IMSA team back in the 90's and we ran Mobil 1 in the turbo'd Eagle Talons and it worked great. After seeing what the insides of an engine looked like after a 24 hour race, I see no reason to run anything other than M1.
trippled
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- colorado springs, co
Why? IIRC the k and n are the same as the Mobil 1 filters with a nut welded on and a higher price, while the motorcraft is made by purolater. I agree Mobil 1 is good stuff, and I personally use wix filters on my jeep and Mobil 1 filters on my car
I have no plans to race my rig (don't let "Hot Rod" in the name of the oil throw you off here). It's mostly a weekend warrior and an occasional daily driver. The machine shop that built the stroker strongly recommended Joe Gibbs Hot Rod oil for two reasons:
1. It has the ZDDP additive to keep the CAM happy for a long time.
2. It is one of the best at keeping internal engine parts coated in oil and rust free when the vehicle is stored or not driven for long periods of time.
Both reasons seem applicable to my situation. Plus I really have no reason to _not_ go with Joe Gibbs.
A side from oil brand, would 10W-30 be the way to go for both hot and cold weather?
As for filters, I have no loyalty to any particular brand, though it does seems to be the general consensus to stay away from Fram. I really just want something solid, I'm slightly leaning toward the K&N based on other reading I've done though I could give the Motorcraft FL1A a try. Any others?
I ran a K&N once.
Once.
Never again.
I actually had metal flakes on my dipstick. I thought I lost an engine. I dissected the K&N and it had come apart internally and it had metal shavings on the clean side of the filter. I changed my oil, when back to a Motorcraft and never had the problem again. My theory is that the K&N had machining debris in it when they assembled it.
Also, the Motorcraft is much bigger than stock.
If you really think you need the added ZDDP after the cam is broken in, then run the Gibbs oil. I have 215K on my engine and the cam is fine. In fact, every vehicle I have owned has had over 180K miles on it when I sold it and NEVER had a problem with a camshaft on any of them. Once the cam is broken in, it will live a long and happy life with ANY clean, quality oil. Changing oil and keeping it clean is more important than what brand in a street driven vehicle. Personally I like oil that I can go buy at the local auto parts instead of mail order. If I want a top of the line lubricant, then I'd go with Neo.
You asked for opinions. My opinion is that M1 will give more protection than you will ever need. If you already have your mind made up to run the Gibbs stuff, then do it. I'm not going to talk you out of it.
Yes, 10-30 will be fine. I run that in the winter and 10-40 the rest of the year.
Once.
Never again.
I actually had metal flakes on my dipstick. I thought I lost an engine. I dissected the K&N and it had come apart internally and it had metal shavings on the clean side of the filter. I changed my oil, when back to a Motorcraft and never had the problem again. My theory is that the K&N had machining debris in it when they assembled it.
Also, the Motorcraft is much bigger than stock.
If you really think you need the added ZDDP after the cam is broken in, then run the Gibbs oil. I have 215K on my engine and the cam is fine. In fact, every vehicle I have owned has had over 180K miles on it when I sold it and NEVER had a problem with a camshaft on any of them. Once the cam is broken in, it will live a long and happy life with ANY clean, quality oil. Changing oil and keeping it clean is more important than what brand in a street driven vehicle. Personally I like oil that I can go buy at the local auto parts instead of mail order. If I want a top of the line lubricant, then I'd go with Neo.
You asked for opinions. My opinion is that M1 will give more protection than you will ever need. If you already have your mind made up to run the Gibbs stuff, then do it. I'm not going to talk you out of it.
Yes, 10-30 will be fine. I run that in the winter and 10-40 the rest of the year.
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YIKES! This definitely changes my mind about the K&N filter. I guess it could have been a rare occasion but why risk it. Thanks for sharing, this is the sort of info I'm fishing for.
Bigger seems like a good idea.
No worries, I trust you. I'm trying to reconcile your experience (racing shop manager) with that of the machinist that built my stroker (30+ years building engines); pretty much you guys are on the same page though he was really insistent on the zinc. He even showed me CAMs with the same number of miles on them where one had zinc additive for its lifetime and the other didn't. The CAM without was completely shot and badly worn. Though with this comparison it's hard to say if the ruined one ran also dirty oil for most of its life or not.
Good point.
You're fine, no worries. I'm not 100% decided, hence the purpose of this thread. I really do appreciate the feedback and opinions.
Okay thanks.
One more question, right now with the break in oil my pressure is around 50 while warming up and then ranges from 13-ish to 25-ish depending on rpms once warmed up. Is this a normal range?
crimsondragon
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- NJ
If you want ZDDP, look into Brad Penn. Current Mobil 1 oils don't have shit in terms of ZDDP. You want to read a good article?
http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/news/Forced%20Performance%20Recommendations%20for%20Motor%20Oil.pdf
Brad Penn is what I currently run in my DSM running a Borg Warner S256 ETT. Match it up with a Wix filter and you're golden.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/news/Forced%20Performance%20Recommendations%20for%20Motor%20Oil.pdf
Brad Penn is what I currently run in my DSM running a Borg Warner S256 ETT. Match it up with a Wix filter and you're golden.
What weight oil is in it now? Are you saying that after warmed up you have 13 at idle and 25 at cruise? It is possible that it is just the oil that is in it now. If you still have those same numbers with fresh oil, then that might be concerning. Rule of thumb is something like 10psi for every 1000rpm as a minimum.
Thanks. I'll give it a read.
Ah good question, I'll have to check with the guys at the shop that installed the stroker. I do know that it was Joe Gibbs Break in oil they used because the machine shop that did the stroker build sent that oil with the engine. I just don't know what weight the oil is.
When I very first got the Jeep back for the first 10 or so miles sometimes I saw less than 10 psi when at idle (once warmed up). It stopped going that low once I worked through the first 500 miles though. Now it's at the 13 idle 25-ish at cruise (sometimes in the 30's). When cold it's easily around 50 (does cold matter??).
Okay got it. I'll reexamine once I change the oil.
xcm
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Southern Oregon
Valvoline VR-1 conventional, with extra zddp in my stroker, with a Fl-1A Nevermind the cat wear... 65psi on the freeway, 30psi at idle after an hour of freeway drive.
MoparManiac
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Amherst, NH
Agreed with DieselSJ on not needing the ZDDP stuff after the cam is broken in.
My family has run old big block Mopars for years on nothing but normal off-the-shelf oil at Autozone/Walmart. It's more important to run a good filter. I prefer WIX.
My family has run old big block Mopars for years on nothing but normal off-the-shelf oil at Autozone/Walmart. It's more important to run a good filter. I prefer WIX.
markaboo929
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Mooresville,NC
I would sugest using the Valvoline VR-1 conventional 10w30 up to 5,000 miles.Then use a synthetic oil.I did use the Joe Gibbs HR oil in 10w30,I have been using the Valvoline VR-1 synthetic,but recently used the Amsoil Z-Rod 10w30,which has the same properties as the Joe Gibbs....hmmm.If you become a prefered customer with Amsoil it comes out pretty decent.Cost ends up at $7.55.For the filter go to napa and get a 41515 platinum filter Wix...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323101
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/z-rod-10w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/
Your stroker will be very happy.Mine hums along 70 mph at 2500 rpms 60 psi hot.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323101
http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/z-rod-10w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/
Your stroker will be very happy.Mine hums along 70 mph at 2500 rpms 60 psi hot.
I think its hard to beat diesel oil such as Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 or an Amsoil equivalent. My Jeep 4.0 has 336,000 miles on it and other than oil leaks that developed over time (what Jeep doesn't) it runs like new. I had the head off at 160,000 and the mechanic doing the work at the time asked me if it was the original motor with all those miles.. I don't think running a stroker would change the oil recommendation much, synthetic OTR semi-truck oil has you covered. My average oil change is around 10,000-12,000 miles. It helps that I know the entire service history of the Jeep, having bought it from a guy I new when it had 36,000 miles on it. He drained all the factory fluids at 300 miles and put Mobil synthetics in. I wasn't sure if he should've allowed a longer break in but it doesn't seem to have hurt the longevity. I've used Mobil 1 filters, Fleetguard filters, FL1a (most of the time), and NAPA/Wix filters. A buddy of mine who is a fluids specialist for NASA turned me on to Amsoil about 15 years ago.
- Location
- Hammertown, USA
THIS.
Russ Pottenger insists that we run VR-1 in our Strokers, and add cam break in additive with every oil change (I run the Lucas because its easy to get, he doesn't really seem to care which additive we use).
I don't think there is a stronger recommendation available.
We used to use Napa gold (Wix) oil filters, but since I went to the remote oil filter setup, are running a Moroso filter for a big block chevy.
Thanks for all the feedback guys (I love this forum!).
Regarding the break-in additive, wouldn't the amounts of zinc required to properly break in the CAM prematurely wear the CAM if used for the life of the engine? Set me straight here. I was understanding that high zinc was used for breaking in the CAM and then a lower amount was used for the life of the engine to keep it happy(?). Perhaps a good quality oil, filter, and regular changes for the life of the engine makes more of a difference than zinc additives?
Regarding the break-in additive, wouldn't the amounts of zinc required to properly break in the CAM prematurely wear the CAM if used for the life of the engine? Set me straight here. I was understanding that high zinc was used for breaking in the CAM and then a lower amount was used for the life of the engine to keep it happy(?). Perhaps a good quality oil, filter, and regular changes for the life of the engine makes more of a difference than zinc additives?
- Location
- Hammertown, USA
If they hadn't changed oil formulas since these engines were designed yes.
They have however, and you have to add zinc to compensate.
I imagine after 30k miles or so you could stop, but I dunno. I only have about 4000 miles on my jeep and am on the third stroker.
They have however, and you have to add zinc to compensate.
I imagine after 30k miles or so you could stop, but I dunno. I only have about 4000 miles on my jeep and am on the third stroker.
If they hadn't changed oil formulas since these engines were designed yes.
They have however, and you have to add zinc to compensate.
I imagine after 30k miles or so you could stop, but I dunno. I only have about 4000 miles on my jeep and am on the third stroker.
I'll say it again - after the cam is broken in, you don't need any special additives.
4K miles and 3rd engine? Yes, I'll take your advice.
The cam in our racer is about 5 seasons old. This is the 3rd block that it has been in. It has been broken in once. We don't use any special oil. It has spent the majority of its life in the 4000-6000 rpm range. Neither the cam nor lifters are showing any abnormal wear.
The stock cam in my XJ has 216K miles on it. I don't use any special additives.
How many 4.0's are in the world with 150K, 200K, 250K and even 300K miles on stock cams? And I'll bet there is a very low, like <1% that adds anything to their oil.
Clean oil is the most important thing. Change it on a regular basis.
ha ha, good point. My last XJ had a out 250k on the pure stock engine. Previous owner was the state of Utah. When I bought it at a state surplus auction it came with a printout several pages long of its full maintenance record. Oil was changed religiously its whole life. I also kept up good oil hygene without additives to the day I sold it. Always ran strong and smooth. I doubt the state fleet mechanics bothered with fancy additives.
Okay, so why all the hub-bub then about zinc from guys that build engines (i.e. Russ P. and also the guys at South Valley Machine that built my stroker)? If it doesn't really make a difference (vs regular oil changes) then what? I mean there's nothing in it for them if I go with with zinc per their recommendation. (I'm talking after the CAM break in period here.)
Great question. Maybe they are running crazy high spring pressures and are afraid of failure? Maybe they had some cam failures due to improper break-in and now they are just over cautious? I really don't know. I have seen enough wiped out cams to know that it is necessary during break-in. After break in, I change the oil and I do run additive for the first 1000 miles, then just a good synthetic after that.
