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Swap from auto to manual and 2wd to 4wd

Twisted1

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Westminster
Like the title says, looking to swap a 2wd auto to a 4wd manual. What do I need to look out for as far as problems go?

This is the first time I have tried this, and will have a lot of help along the way, just curious if there's anything I need to know before jumping in. Already collecting the parts, and have the T-case, Transmission, clutch assembly, pedal, master cylinder, driveshaft, and shifter. We still need a front axle, and misc. other items.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, aside from the obvious one, "get rid of it and buy a 4wd".
 
Depending on the year of your XJ, you're probably gonna need to swap out the engine control module and associated wiring harness. The computer controls the engine differently stick vs. auto (BTW, you've committed the ultimate forum sin by NOT posting the year of your XJ, lift kit specs, t-case, etc..... :shhh:)

I've not done it for a Renix era rig, but I believe the engine management harness and computers are the same for that system be it stick or auto, you simply unplug/remove the TCU and Neutral Safety switch connection. Someone with more Renix experience may correct me on this.......

For the later models (OBD I and II) you'll be eliminating the neutral safety switch and Trans Control Module which are integral to the system. If you've got a '96 and newer, this will require that you swap out the gauge cluster as well...... OBD II Cherokees communicate between 3 computers for the auto and 2 computers for the stick. Taking the TCU out of the loop will cause the computer in the gauge cluster to have a "No Buss" error and the XJ may only operate in a reduced power/performance mode.

The front driveshaft needs to be about 3" longer with the manual trans an the rear drive shaft shorter, but that all tends to be goofed up too depending on the rear axle (8.25 and Ford 8.8's have longer pinions than a D35 and D44)

T-case shifter bracketry is also different since the manual trans sits farther back than the auto. Best to get the trans-tunnel bracket and associated linkage from a manual trans donor. The pivot point on the trans tunnel bracket is farther back and the link length from t-case to the linkage assembly is longer IIRC.



........ I REALLY need to find a new hobby...... :looney:
 
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Dang! Thanks for the info, and sorry for not mentioning any specs! The swap is happening on my Sons 1995. It's about as stock as can be, unless you count the missing window replaced with plexiglass for now!

We pulled the parts of a 93 in the junkyard, so they should be just about the same...I think!

My XJ is a 2000, with about 5.5" of lift on 35's. Beefed up Dana 30 in the front with a Eaton locker, and an 8.8 in the rear with a Detroit locker. I got it like it sits, but have a lot of plans for it. I'm going to do the conversion and run a four link in the rear with coils. Oh yeah, it has a long arm in the front too.
 
sweet. We were talking about it today before school. I am david with the black xj from down the street btw.

I might have a d30 for him depending on if stock li has it still.
 
Dang! Thanks for the info, and sorry for not mentioning any specs! The swap is happening on my Sons 1995. It's about as stock as can be, unless you count the missing window replaced with plexiglass for now!

My XJ is a 2000, with about 5.5" of lift on 35's. Beefed up Dana 30 in the front with a Eaton locker, and an 8.8 in the rear with a Detroit locker. I got it like it sits, but have a lot of plans for it. I'm going to do the conversion and run a four link in the rear with coils. Oh yeah, it has a long arm in the front too.
So, where are the pictures??? :D

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?p=245726708#post245726708

Here is one for the trivia bank Troy (not that it should matter), but the manual tranny, flywheel, clutch, and clutch pedal came from a ZJ.
 
Oh and the Renix swaps........ unfortunately, Renix engines are specific to the type of transmission. Jeep apparently decided that they'd manufacture 2 crank shafts - 1 machined for the pilot bearing needed for a manual trans, the other not machined for the auto trans.

So, If you have a Renix era XJ and want to go from auto to manual...... you're gonna have to swap the crank or engine as well. Swapping from a manual to an auto is no problem though.
 
Oh and the Renix swaps........ unfortunately, Renix engines are specific to the type of transmission. Jeep apparently decided that they'd manufacture 2 crank shafts - 1 machined for the pilot bearing needed for a manual trans, the other not machined for the auto trans.

So, If you have a Renix era XJ and want to go from auto to manual...... you're gonna have to swap the crank or engine as well. Swapping from a manual to an auto is no problem though.
Troy, all i had to do to swap from the AX-15 to an AW4, as far as the crank went, was to pull the pilot bearing to allow the torque converter to fit.
 
Ok, good to know. Wasn't sure if the pilot bearing would need to be removed to allow for the centering hub of the torque converter to sit in the crank of a manual trans engine/crank.

:thumbup:
 
Full (afaik) list of stuff you'll need -
- transmission, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, master/slave cylinder etc
- pilot bearing and bushing kit FC69907 should work on a 95
- both front and rear driveshafts of appropriate length (they are different auto vs manual)
- for a factory setup, you will also want a manual crossmember. It drops the trans mount bushing down about 1/2" to 3/4" below where an auto one would be.
- pedal box - at least on my 91 I was able to take parts off the one I bought, and bolt them (and the manual brake pedal) to the original pedal box in the jeep. Your mileage may vary. Make sure you get the brace from the firewall to the far left side of the clutch pedal bracketry.
- ECU won't matter, use yours.
- you will need to cut up your old NSS switches' harness. Jump the pins for the P/N contacts so you can start the jeep, connect the pins for the reverse contacts to the reverse switch on the AX15.
- you will need the black sheetmetal blockoff plate that covers up the hole where the AW4 shifter handle used to go, and the pile of self tapping sheetmetal screws that holds it down, as well as all other assorted nuts and bolts and the inner console shift boot etc.
- you may need to find a way to disable the steering column park interlock cable, else the steering column may lock out on you and not let you turn at random times, including while driving. Fortunately I found this out while backing the jeep up right after finishing the swap... I was working on a GM column (91) while you have the early chrysler column style (95-96) - quadruple check your setup and make sure it won't be an issue. I THINK the park interlock cable on your column just bolts to the side of the column tube, but make sure of this.
- you can unplug the TCU or leave it plugged in. It won't matter. I unplugged mine, and also made a blockoff stub harness that plugs into the connector for the solenoids and speed sensor under the hood by where the trans dipstick used to go, because I want to use that cabling for something later.
- you will need the aluminum blockoff plate and the various screws that hold it in that all cover the front of the bellhousing.
- you will need a new set of flywheel bolts - the auto ones are shorter and won't get enough thread engagement. Manual flywheel bolts are J317 0524, you need six.
- I suggest buying a pair of 3/8-16 2-1/4" long grade 8 bolts, lock washers, and flat washers to replace the upper bellhousing bolts as the stock ones are a retarded E12 bolt head. Torque these to spec, if you don't, they will back out and you WILL regret it.
- I also suggest buying a new set of engine to bellhousing alignment dowels at the dealer. They're a hollow alignment dowel that the two 7/16-14 bellhousing bolts go through, sometimes they get mangled or seized into the old bellhousing and you mangle them trying to get them back out. Shouldn't be more than 3-4 dollars each at the dealer. Part number is J400 5148, you need two.

A few gotchas -
- drilling the holes in the firewall SUCKS!!! It is easiest to do with the dash out. There are 3 centerpunch marks on the firewall where you need to drill, it all makes sense when you look at it. I drilled pilot holes through from the interior using a small drill because the marks are made from that side, then drilled from the engine compartment to finish the job. I ended up playing connect the dots with a dremel, file, and hand drill to make the large hole for the clutch pushrod because my hole saw and electric drill wouldn't fit in the space available.
- make sure you use a new throwout bearing, I trusted the one that came with the transmission since it seemed ok and I forgot to order one beforehand, and it went out a few thousand miles later.
- make absolutely 100% sure you torque the four bellhousing bolts (two uppers and two lowers through the alignment dowels) to spec.
- make sure you unbolt the CPS from the AW4 bellhousing before trying to remove the transmission... and don't ask how I know this!
- also, make sure to unbolt all the bolts from the inspection cover before trying to remove the AW4. Again, don't ask. There are a few on each side you reach from the engine compartment.
- it's best to chock the wheels before removing the driveshafts.
- easiest to get the flexplate bolts out with a 15mm flex-head gearwrench.
- if the GL5 you buy doesn't specifically state it's yellow metal safe, don't use it! If you can't find yellow metal safe GL5, Mobil1 10W30 full synthetic is a decent stopgap.
- rear driveshafts are different 95 down vs 96 up, auto vs manual, 2wd vs 4wd, 8.25 vs dana 35, AND 4cyl vs 6cyl. Since you're doing a 4wd swap, you get to choose the design of your rear driveshaft slip yoke, just pull the driveshaft from a donor on the same side of the 95 to 96 split.
- front driveshafts are different auto vs manual and 4cyl vs 6cyl. Obviously they're also present on 4wd and nonexistent on 2wd... :looney:
- make sure you use a new dana 30 that matches your rearend's gears

A 6cyl auto front driveshaft is actually 1.41" longer than a 6cyl manual. Rear changes the other way - Troy has it backward. I know this for a fact for a few reasons, I read the J321-CV Dana/Spicer catalog before doing my swap, and having a driveshaft shop cut 1.41" out of a donor 6cyl/auto front driveshaft made it fit my 6cyl/manual conversion perfectly.

Also, you won't get a no bus error due to a missing TCU, in fact the XJ will run and drive perfectly, you'll simply get a pair of codes in the P16xx range (I want to say 1657 and 1658 but not sure, 'casm' on here did an excellent writeup on a late model 5spd swap that contains this info) saying the ECU can't communicate with the TCU. Even if you leave the TCU plugged in and simply unplug the trans harnesses you will have no engine problems, just a check engine light and codes in the P07xx range saying bad things about your NSS, ISS/OSS, and trans shift solenoids.

The auto vs manual engine compartment harnesses are different on all years, BUT converting this direction, it doesn't matter since it's all extra wiring with an auto, so going to a manual leaves it unused. The only difference is you have to build a short custom harness to connect the old NSS connector to your reverse light switch and also either jump the P/N contacts or (on a late model with a CSS switch by the clutch master) wire them to the CSS, if you want.

96 won't give you codes if you unplug the TCU, it's a strange year, OBDII electronics but an old style TCU of the "hear no evil see no evil" type. I tested this on my 96 XJ by first unplugging the transmission completely but leaving the TCU connected and then driving it to work shifting manually, then when I left for home, unplugged the TCU from the harness also and drove home. No CEL in either case, and I got it to 97mph in second gear on 33s for testing purposes (professional driver, closed course), so I'm fairly certain it didn't have any performance issues either.

I've been testing some custom TCU modifications on my 98 and haven't seen any performance differences with it unplugged, either. It flips the CEL on but doesn't really gut performance at all, and after hacking on the TCU for a while, lifting some legs on some chips, doing a little soldering it almost never turns the CEL on even with the shift solenoids controlled by me rather than the TCU. Haven't quite licked it fully yet though, it does still flip a code once in a while.

Technically the HO ECUs depend on auto vs manual but in my experience (as listed above) the only difference is that the auto ones have the firmware for pulling DTCs from the TCU active, while the manual ones have it disabled. Hell, I've been wheeling my 91 MJ with an automatic ECU with the trans disconnected from the TCU, and then the TCU disconnected completely, for a year with zero issues.

edit: I'm not sure what year range the pedal box will swap across, I know RENIX vs HO is a different pedal box and I think 91-94 vs 95-up MAY be a different one, might even be a different split in the middle of that range. Not sure on those year specifics. Also, if you pulled the trans from a 93 donor it's going to have an internal slave cylinder, something you really want to do away with ideally. All you need to do that is the bellhousing, clutch fork, throwout bearing, I believe the input shaft bearing retainer, and possibly some other minor parts.

I'm sure I missed something in here... but I think that's enough of a wall of text for now!
 
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Jeezus......... look at the big brain on kastein.......... :D
 
Troy, you and your thumbs up!

Everytime I see it, I chuckle. It reminds me of a punchline to a joke I never heard...:laugh2:

Well this: :thumbup: ......... is only half the punchline!

It's even more funny when not told under the influence of a few JZ's......


Oh, and here's the full punchline: :thumbup::thumbup:


:D
 
Great info. Good luck Chris! Post up picks as you go. I have talked to a few people who would like to do this. The 2WDs are so cheap, it sounds like a good option.
 
Considering I picked it up for $300, and the body is extremely straight, I can't complain. The engine needs a little love, but nothing that isn't too bad!
 
Time to rethink the process here! Did a compression check over the weekend and the motor is shot! Low cylinder read 35, and the highest read 115. My Son decided to scrap the Jeep, and continue his search. Thank you guys for the info, but I don't know if this will ever actaully happen. He wants to sell the parts now to recover some of his money, so he can find another. It's that whole 17 year old instant gratification thing....or maybe not, since I still have it too!
 
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