Steering suggestions - XJ OTK

[blistovmhz]

I'm looking for some input on steering options.
I've smashed my UTK stock bars too many times, and I'm sick of TRE roll.

98 XJ, 6.5" long arm, 33x12", D30, lunchbox.
This is my DD and I do a lot of moderate wheeling. I wheel myself into a lot of bad decisions and large off camber situations (thus the destroyed TRE's). Jeep needs to be safe on highway and has to get me through a day of "oops".

Looking at a few off the shelf options, but may just build it myself.
Currently looking at the following:
1. Rustys OTK - HEIM - http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-conversions-over-the-knuckle-steering.html

I've heard concerns about HEIM's as well as concerns about putting both the draglink and tiebar stacked on the passenger knuckle. Has anyone actually had any issues with heims or had a stacked heim destroy the knuckle?
This setup also uses a rather short tracbar. Again, some guys say it's a non-issue, while other say it tracks like shit. Thoughts?

2. JCR 1tonne OTK - http://www.jcroffroad.com/product/STR/1TNST-OTK.html

As I've got TRE roll, I'm not super hot on the idea of doing TRE's, but as the draglink departure angle is decreased so much with OTK, is roll still an issue?
This kit doesn't come with a tracbar. As I'm only at 6.5" lift and have an tracbar appropriate for stock steering at my height, I don't know if I'll need to relocate the tracbar anyway. If that was the case, I'd probably just go with Rustys 1 tonne setup, given I'll have to contend with the tracbar length anyhow.

3. Rustys WJ OTK conversion - http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-s...j-steering-and-brake-conversion-xj-tj-zj.html

I assume their WJ knuckles already have spacers and are ready for installation. If I went this route, I'd probably source my own WJ knuckles and space'm myself. I know this option is probably the best long term, but it's also the most labour intensive and expensive. Even sourcing my own knuckles, I'm still looking at about $900 for this conversion. Again, this one uses HEIM's as well so same questions as number 1.


So between all three options, what are the pros and cons? Are there other options I should be considering? I'm leaning towards one of the HEIM options mainly because it doesn't require reaming, can deal with larger angles, and cheaper. Someone correct me if I'm wildly off?

 

[sunburned]

Sorry you wrote all that up. If you'd have searched, you could have found 100s of threads on this same subject.

1) Don't buy rusty's anything.

2) Why do you need 6" of lift for 33s? Lowering that thing down to 4" will drastically improve your steering angles and make you safer on and offroad at the same time.

3) Check out the deals section for Claytons WJ swap kit. Buy it, install it, love it.

 

[XJEEPER]

Clayton's WJ setup.

I submit that you can source your own parts and do the WJ brake/steering swap yourself for less than the $900 you've stated......because I did.

 

[blistovmhz]

Sorry you wrote all that up. If you'd have searched, you could have found 100s of threads on this same subject.

1) Don't buy rusty's anything.

2) Why do you need 6" of lift for 33s? Lowering that thing down to 4" will drastically improve your steering angles and make you safer on and offroad at the same time.

3) Check out the deals section for Claytons WJ swap kit. Buy it, install it, love it.

1. So I keep hearing.
2. Wanted to go long arm, kit was pretty much the same price for 4.5 or 6, and I kept running my bumpers into the ground at 4.5. 6" has been treating me well aside from the TRE roll.
3. I'd considered Claytons kit as well, but it comes with a tonne of stuff I already have, and I couldn't find a definitive parts list for the kit. I've already got a WJ front end, so I really just need the rotor, UB spacer, swaybar links, some rods and tracbar/mount. The Clayton kit almost looks like it uses stock TRE's. Anyone know if that's the case? I was under the impression that they can't deal with much angle. I've heard of other guys using WJ TRE's at 6" lift and they just fall apart after flexing out a few times. ??

 

[XJEEPER]

I run Tera offset TRE's for the past 4 years and they've performed well. 1-Ton size TRE housing with the smaller taper. http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=913774&page=9

 

[jeeperjohn]

I have used Bulletproof brand steering for about 5 years. It was expensive but I have had zero issues with anything. I am running the original Heims on a daily driven jeep that see';s some opretty hard core wheeling and it still steers great. The Heims it came with have no radial play and there is no slop in the steering from the heims. If you decide to do heims, do yourself a favor and drop the coin for the best heims you can get. The longevity and added security will be well worth the investment.

 

[JEEPERDK]

ive been running the iron rock offroad heavy duty steering setup for about 4 months on a mostly daily driven XJ on 3" lift right now (going up to 4.5" in the next month or 2). it uses heims and I have not noticed any problems with the steering at all with them. I just recently took the steering apart and checked out the heims, and they showed no signs of wear. Ive also bashed the steering off of a couple of good sized rocks before and the links only have scratches on them.

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merc...=IROR&Product_Code=IR-TOTKS&Category_Code=XST

 

[JWheeler]

ive been running the iron rock offroad heavy duty steering setup for about 4 months on a mostly daily driven XJ on 3" lift right now (going up to 4.5" in the next month or 2). it uses heims and I have not noticed any problems with the steering at all with them. I just recently took the steering apart and checked out the heims, and they showed no signs of wear. Ive also bashed the steering off of a couple of good sized rocks before and the links only have scratches on them.

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merc...=IROR&Product_Code=IR-TOTKS&Category_Code=XST

Same here. I've only has mine about 6 months but drive it daily and wheel it every weekend I am not fixing it. Heims are still tight and show zero wear and it drives great. I've got about 6" lift. It's a great bolt on option if you don't want to weld on new trac bar and stuff.

 

[rockclimber]

tie rod roll comes from the drag link being mounted to the tie-rod, not from the joint used.

 

[blistovmhz]

Clayton's WJ setup.

I submit that you can source your own parts and do the WJ brake/steering swap yourself for less than the $900 you've stated......because I did.

I know the question has been answered before all over, but there's always a lot of cross chatter and I've lost track.

What'd you end up using for the calipers? Teves or Akebono?
Which rotor, and what'd you have to do to get it lined up?
Hows that shorty trackbar treatin ya with bumpsteer. I've heard LOTS of conflicting reports about the short trackbar OTA with the WJ knuckle OTK. Some guys say it's solid, others say terrifying.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

you could get something like ruffstuff's frame side mount, which mounts the trackbar more outboard, and get a little more length out of the trackbar. thats what i plan to use.

 

[rockclimber]

you could get something like ruffstuff's frame side mount, which mounts the trackbar more outboard, and get a little more length out of the trackbar. thats what i plan to use.

Those raise the bolt hole up considerably. You will have to change the axle side mount to get the angle right.

 

[XJEEPER]

I know the question has been answered before all over, but there's always a lot of cross chatter and I've lost track.

What'd you end up using for the calipers? Teves or Akebono?
Which rotor, and what'd you have to do to get it lined up?
Hows that shorty trackbar treatin ya with bumpsteer. I've heard LOTS of conflicting reports about the short trackbar OTA with the WJ knuckle OTK. Some guys say it's solid, others say terrifying.

I run Akebono calipers
I run WJ rotors which I redrilled to the 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern. The rotor is hub centric, or centers itself on the unit hub, and since the XJ rotor and WJ rotor have the same OD hub, there is no need to be scared of redrilling the bolt pattern in the WJ rotors.

Simply lay your XJ rotor on top of the WJ rotor (hat to hat) and line up the center hole, then scribe your new hole locations on the WJ rotor. Use a center punch to guide the drill bit and drill a small pilot hole before moving up to a larger drill bit. I drilled the holes 1/32 larger than factory to compensate for any variance in my pattern transfer and they fit perfectly.......remember THE ROTOR CENTERS ON THE UNIT HUB! I've drilled out my set of WJ rotors and a pair for a member who didn't have the tools and both fit perfectly.


The above pictured rig is Claytons, not mine.

My trackbar is actually longer than Claytons, but still shorter than my draglink. My draglink also runs at a steeper angle than the Clayton setup, because I don't run a drop pitman arm, which in theory, reduces lateral stress on your steering box sector shaft. My TRE's don't bind at full droop, so it's a non-issue.

How does mine handle at speed? I have a slight amount of bumpsteer, but it is so mild, I haven't really seen the need to rework my mounts. I've been running the WJ setup for 4 years and logged approx. 50k miles with it and I typically drive 75mph on the freeway, most of the time with a thumb and two fingers on the wheel. I do not run a steering stabilizer either, as I haven't seen the need. YMMV

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

Those raise the bolt hole up considerably. You will have to change the axle side mount to get the angle right.

FWIW... it wouldnt be hard to make one out of boxed tubing.

 

[blistovmhz]

So the swap's finished. Painted white (poorly. have to do it again).

Another thing to consider if you're in California or anywhere in Canada, is that we have ridiculous restrictions on what you can do with steering.
According to Canadian transport law, you're not allowed to have any steering components with evidence of heating or welding... I figure evidence of heating would be suggested by the fact that even from factory, the components must have been forged... and lots of factory steering stuff comes welded... but if a cop pulls you over and sees any weld beads and is feeling particularly dickish, he can send you in for a VI, and you'll fail.

I'll be pulling all the rods out again to give them another pass with some big tig filler, then grinding it all down flush so it looks machined.

I'm getting a small amount of bump steer on the drivers side, but I'm running without a stabilizer. Tested against a stock XJ with a stabilizer and it's about the same.

The steering feels... a tad more responsive, but not so much that I'm having a tiny party every time I turn. The brakes are no better than what I had previously.
I think if I was to do this again, I'd probably have just gone with a 1tonne OTK inverted Y setup. I didn't need the brakes, and the stock knuckles place the TRE's 1/2" higher than the WJ knuckles. OTK for either, the stock is slightly higher.

Right now, my Jeeps a little pully when a tire hits slush or the edge of a groove in the ashfault. Hoping this is just a toe issue and not caster as I really like my pinion angle.

So, for all those considering this swap, keep in mind that the XJ OTK 1tonne will get your lowest point 1/2" higher than the WJ knuckles, for 1/8 the price in 1/10th the time. If you don't need the massive Akebono brakes, I really wouldn't bother with the WJ knuckles.

 

[zachandandy]

What to weird Canadian laws have to do with being in California? I and a dozen other peaople I wheel with run heim joint steering with plenty of evidence of heating and welding here in California with no problem from the police?

 

[yossarian19]

California doesn't seem to care what kind of death machine you own & love - so long as it doesn't pollute the air.

Note, I'm not saying heim joints make something a death machine. Just speaking from experience as a mechanic... people will drive *anything* if it has 18" rims or bigger.

 

[blistovmhz]

I'm not sure about California law, but when I was researching the swap, I heard a lot of chatter from people suggesting that any welded steering components were illegal there, just like here in Canada (except that in Canada, our laws are insanely ambiguous, so ours actually says that no steering components can have any evidence of prior heating... so forged components are out too, so they can send you in for a VI even if you're driving a brand new stock vehicle).


So last night we went out for some light wheelin' in the snow, and I broke the mounting ear off my sway bar.
I'd forgot to relocate my swaybar disco pegs, so I had to drive around with the swaybar attached. At some point, the ear broke right off. Given my buddy with his mostly stockish Jeep kept up just fine, and doesn't have a disco at all, I find it odd that mine broke off doing the same stuff he was doing.

I installed the Teraflex swaybar link mounts (the ones that locate the pins 3-4" higher) and shortened my links by the same amount. I suspect that my positioning must be off somehow, and that when I flexed out a little bit at some point, the swaybar must have run into something.
Anyone else run into this issue after relocating the swaybar link mounts higher over the axle?