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Spring Comparison: RE vs Clayton vs Big Offroad

I've had my RE 3.5" packs for a month or so now, and am not too thrilled... They sit far higher than advertised and are stiff as hell. Once they sag or break, I'll be going a different route.
 
Mighty.Mighty_XJ said:
As it is, I have decided on the Claytons. My reasons? Just looking at the opinions here, the price, FREE SHIPPING! and proximity to me. I waited a little bit too long to purchase & I was pressed for time. Thanks to everyone who tried to help out with my decision.
Click to expand...

Congrats on your decision and purchase! I'm too lazy to look through the past posts, but did you go with the 4.5 or 6.5 springs? Can't go wrong with either one. I hope you like them as much as I do.
 
Thanks, I took the 4.5" leafs. I'm aprehensive about the decision and almost went with BOR 4". Since I already have shackle relocation brackets & lift shackles, I'm worried that the XJ might be too tall. I'm hoping that the weight of the heep & my junk will level it out. I really don't want to be at 6". My shocks will be worthless & the XJ might have a rake. Brake lines might be too short ... O-boy ...

So what's the best (most accurate) way to measure lift height when you no longer have stock flares?
 
Unibody frame to the ground perhaps? Got to take into consideration tires though too. Good luck!
 
Mighty.Mighty_XJ said:
Thanks, I took the 4.5" leafs. I'm aprehensive about the decision and almost went with BOR 4". Since I already have shackle relocation brackets & lift shackles, I'm worried that the XJ might be too tall. I'm hoping that the weight of the heep & my junk will level it out. I really don't want to be at 6". My shocks will be worthless & the XJ might have a rake. Brake lines might be too short ... O-boy ...

So what's the best (most accurate) way to measure lift height when you no longer have stock flares?
Click to expand...

The FAQ section is your friend.... http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=912893
 
Well, I would have to go with BOR for obvious reasons :D I for one cannot see spending $700+ for a set of springs........ so Deaver is OUT! Claytons are priced fair and I have heard nothing but good stuff about them. For me...... well, the choice is clear...... quality product from a local vender!!
 
Very cool thread going here! It's great to see one place where us XJ folks have put our personal use experiences together. It's also good research material for us vendors to use when looking at long-term use results. :thumbup:

Well, to those of you already running BIGoffroad leaf packs...... THANKS for choosing us! I'm really glad to hear the majority of you are finding our product to be of high quality and long lasting value.

As far as all the differences we're seeing here between rigs running the same leaf packs (brands and sizes) there are quite a few different factors that can contribute to the way leaf packs perform and ride.

-Shackle position and length
-Shock length and design (gas/fluid, twin tube/mono tube, remote reserviors, proper travel between compression and extension.......)
-Actual weight of the back half of the XJ they're suspending

I can provide a couple of examples from my personal experience since having owned BIGoffroad and owning these leafs on a couple of my own rigs:

BIGoffroad's promo rig:

This rig has Rubicon Express lift products and sits at about 6.5" of overall lift. It uses the SuperFlex adj. control arms, drop brackets and 5.5" coils on ACOS up front. All 4 corners use RE Monotube fluid shocks (not gas). The rear leafs are BOR 6" FlexE leafs using 1" RE boomerang shackles. Tires are 35" on 15x10 beadlocks. Front axle is D30, rear axle is XJ D44. The ride is Cadillac-like as set up. It floats on the road and absorbs dirt washboard roads incredibly well.

100_0731.jpg


This '97 I owned recently had RE 5.5" coils with a 1.75" Teraflex spacer on a custom 3-link using Rock Crawler brackets. All 4 corners were Bilstein 5150 remote res. shocks (gas charged) and BOR 4" FlexE leafs and 1" RE boomerang shackles. Tires are 35" on 15x10 beadlocks. Axles are D30 and XJ D44. The ride was firm, but not harsh. I attribute that to the Bilstein shocks having the firmer valving in them rather than the softer. On road was decent, with some harshness going over pot holes and whatnot. Off road was again firm, but flexy, not bouncy. Washboard roads would be tolerable with tires aired down.

100_0684.jpg


As you can see, both rigs sat about the same ride height. I noted that side-by-side, the rain gutters were damn-near the same height.

The main difference was the weight between the two. The BOR rig has a full interior, tools, heavy bumpers, external full spare tire. The 2nd rig had a stripped interior except for door panels and front seats and dash. Spare was just the tire, no rim, and other than a pair of rear axle shaft spares, nothing else inside. Lightweight tube bumpers as well.

Yeah, I know, they're mall-crawlin' pics but figured they may be of interest to those wondering how BOR leafs flex. You'll note that they don't just go and allow total tire stuffage in the rear, they give good support keeping body lean to a minimum. The BOR rig stuffs the rears a bit more, but again, it's heavier.

2010-08-16193129.jpg


2010-08-16193249.jpg
 
Mighty.Mighty_XJ said:
Thanks, I took the 4.5" leafs. I'm aprehensive about the decision and almost went with BOR 4". Since I already have shackle relocation brackets & lift shackles, I'm worried that the XJ might be too tall. I'm hoping that the weight of the heep & my junk will level it out. I really don't want to be at 6". My shocks will be worthless & the XJ might have a rake. Brake lines might be too short ... O-boy ...

So what's the best (most accurate) way to measure lift height when you no longer have stock flares?
Click to expand...
Well, I'm quoting myself here to say that my prediction came true & the XJ is indeed way too tall. I'm not happy. Based on the measurements using the link above (thanks MT Mike), I'm at 7". Of course the XJ is unloaded, but I can't see the springs settling much with the load I carry. I can't do much about it before the trip, but when I return this will have to be addressed. My next thread will be "how-do-I-lower-my-lift".

I really wish I could see the BOR pics but this computer won't let me. I appreciate your adding this input, even tho it was too late to influence my decision. Like you said, hopefully others can benefit from the info here.
 
jeeperguy21 said:
Hopefully with my experience, I can give some helpful input. I have ran both BOR leaf springs and Clayton 6.5" springs. I bought the BOR springs brand spankin' new and ran them for about 3 years. They are way taller than advertised, which required me to put coil spacers in the front to level the Jeep out. BOR states that they recommend running their leaf springs with a longer shackle, which probably contributed a little to the uneven stance, but it was WAY taller in the rear until the 2" coil spacers. I hoped they would settle, but after 3 years, they were just as tall as the day I bought them. Not to mention stiff as hell. The only way I could stand using them was by removing the bottom two leafs so that the ride was softened up a bit, which worked fine for the time I had them on. The BOR leafs that I bought were the FlexE leaf packs, and not the Heavy Duty too. I can't imagine how rough the ride must be on the HD packs.

I bought a used set of 6.5" Clayton leafs that had been used for about two years from someone that rolled their Jeep and was parting it out. Not only did the height match up so I could remove the coil spacers in front, but they also have rubber bushings, which I love. BOR offers rubber bushings too, but I didn't want to fork over the extra cash back then to get them and just dealt with the poly bushings. After 3 years, the poly bushings looked as new as the day I put them on after I removed the BOR springs from my XJ. To this day I don't know why my BOR leafs were so dang stiff because on many threads you can read about people raving about their flex, ride, and performance. I honestly don't think you could go wrong with either one, but I know for a fact that I now have a love for Clayton and their springs are top notch. Let me know if you have any questions about either packs that I have.
Click to expand...

Ever figure out why the springs were so stiff??

Obviously an old thread but I wanted to contribute to this thread as I feel my experience is still relevant. I have the 8" FlexE packs running spring under with a 1.5" lift shackle (for about 4-5" of lift total: 8" + 1.5" = 9.5" - 5" or so for the spring under). Mind you, this is on a 2wd XJ with a spooled full floating 9". Up front I have 8" Skyjacker coils cut down to about 4.5" of lift for increased spring rate. Main use for the jeep is heavy dune use and high speed desert.

The leafs did not compress at all with the weight of the jeep on them. It drove scary going down the road. I too had to remove the bottom two leafs for the pack to compress and become manageable. With a full size spare, full cage, aluminum race jack, tools, and fluids, the jeep compresses the pack (minus 2 leafs) about 2.5-3". Its still a relatively light jeep but without the load in the back the springs are still too stiff. I'm going to relocate the battery to the rear to see if that helps. I don't know why they are so stiff but it seems I am not alone. Perhaps Alcan sent the HD ones instead? I don't know how to tell.

Right now they only have 4K miles on them but have been HARD miles. I have RE drop brackets up front with fox shocks. In the rear I have 2.5" King Race shocks mounted to the cage which were valved for lighter OME springs. With the softer OME's this jeep would float over whoops and ride very nice. Unfortunately they didn't do much for axle wrap and I trashed them. The Big leafs under the axle are great for axle wrap. No wheel hop at all.
 
Premium93 said:
Ever figure out why the springs were so stiff??

Obviously an old thread but I wanted to contribute to this thread as I feel my experience is still relevant. I have the 8" FlexE packs running spring under with a 1.5" lift shackle (for about 4-5" of lift total: 8" + 1.5" = 9.5" - 5" or so for the spring under). Mind you, this is on a 2wd XJ with a spooled full floating 9". Up front I have 8" Skyjacker coils cut down to about 4.5" of lift for increased spring rate. Main use for the jeep is heavy dune use and high speed desert.

The leafs did not compress at all with the weight of the jeep on them. It drove scary going down the road. I too had to remove the bottom two leafs for the pack to compress and become manageable. With a full size spare, full cage, aluminum race jack, tools, and fluids, the jeep compresses the pack (minus 2 leafs) about 2.5-3". Its still a relatively light jeep but without the load in the back the springs are still too stiff. I'm going to relocate the battery to the rear to see if that helps. I don't know why they are so stiff but it seems I am not alone. Perhaps Alcan sent the HD ones instead? I don't know how to tell.

Right now they only have 4K miles on them but have been HARD miles. I have RE drop brackets up front with fox shocks. In the rear I have 2.5" King Race shocks mounted to the cage which were valved for lighter OME springs. With the softer OME's this jeep would float over whoops and ride very nice. Unfortunately they didn't do much for axle wrap and I trashed them. The Big leafs under the axle are great for axle wrap. No wheel hop at all.
Click to expand...

I think that the stiff ride problem only exists for the 8" packs. After I got my 6.5" Clayton spring packs and compared them to the 8" BOR packs, I realized that the arch of the BOR springs had to be the reason that they had little to no give. I highly doubt that they sent you the HD ones.

I don't know of any way to get those leaves to be ride softer. I got to the point that I removed so many leaves to try and soften the ride that I started to get other concerns, such as axle-wrap. I sold mine over a year ago and haven't looked back. I suggest that you do the same and put the money toward a better set of leaf springs. Good luck!
 
That formula you found is only one of many. That particular one does not take into account the arch of the leafs, which makes the formula incomplete, IMHO. You'll get a different spring rate for whatever formula that you choose to use, as shown here: http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228559

In my first-hand experience with the BOR 8" leafs, I went from those hugely arched springs to a pack that had much much less arch, same thickness and width in each spring, and even more leafs in the pack, and they ride much much better. I am convinced that the arch is the #1 factor contributing to those particular leafs riding so harshly.
 
A more arched spring is going to require a longer shackle to get the same amount of axle travel, and is going to have a higher spring rate with all other factors equal. However not all spring alloys are created equal, you can have two springs that look the same but have different tempers and will flex differently. Hell even the same leafs will flex differently after they have been broken in a bit.
 
FWIW I run a shackle that is 6" eye to eye. That is about twice the length of stock and is not quite long enough for the BOR spring. Any longer though and I'd have a stink bug.

Jeeperguy21 said it right when he said they were stiff as hell. They are.
 
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