Slow Crank, Hard Start

[fubar XJ]

I've had an issue off and (mostly) on with a very slow crank on first start of the day with my XJ. Did a search, found a couple of threads mentioning check your grounds. So two days ago I did, cleaned both battery posts and terminals, positive and negative posts/terms at the starter, post/terms at the engine block and body ground, issue persists.

The only thing remaining seems to be the starter solenoid. I'm guessing the inside connections of the solenoid must be fouled. I also had the problem "correct" itself after wheeling a couple weeks ago, guessing the jarring on the trail bumped the connectors closer together or dislodged some dirt/gunk. Now it's back to very slow crank. Alt is charging fine (13-14 volts) and I can't think of a single other issue that could be affecting it at this point besides the starter.

Thoughts?

 

[joe_peters]

Fully charge your battery and then have it load tested (quick and easy).

If the battery passes the load test then have the started bench tested (not so quick and easy).

Most any parts store will test the battery and starter for no charge.

Did you renew the connections and ground at the stater relay?

 

[5-90]

What year? There are some wiring changes and some control system changes that need to be considered.

 

[fubar XJ]

It's in my sig, it's a '91. The battery was new in December, and cranked fine for a couple of months, then it resumed it's very slow crank at initial start, faster (but still not a true no-issues fast crank) after running it for a bit and shutting it down. I talked to a buddy at work, he says it may be an unrelated circuit that has a slow draw, suggested some sort of battery disconnect/bypass fuse-by-fuse test with a test light to try and find a draw by the light coming on when touching each fuse individually. I'll have to hit him up later and see if I can get more details.

The starter (and solenoid) do have a significant crust/coating of engine oil from years of the valve cover leaking, which I assume would interrupt conductivity or maybe even bridge the gap causing a draw there. My instinct is to just replace the starter, but I'd rather be able to find the cause before just replacing parts.

 

[winterbeater]

If you disconnect the big wire to the starter at the top and put a voltmeter from the battery to that wire, you should get "0" volts. This will prove that the starter is not drawing current when not engaged. Or show you your problem. But the new starter will get oil on it soon and cause the same problem. Why not clean it up with electrical contact cleaner. Valve cover gasket is about as easy a repair as there is, too.

 

[winterbeater]

Whoops! hit it twice

 

[fubar XJ]

I replaced the VC gasket about a year ago, a clogger breather caused it to leak again several months ago. So I will be doing that again. Please clarify what wire on the starter I should test. There's one from the battery (+) on a large post, one from the block ground on a large post, and one from i don't know where on a small post between them.

 

[5-90]

I replaced the VC gasket about a year ago, a clogger breather caused it to leak again several months ago. So I will be doing that again. Please clarify what wire on the starter I should test. There's one from the battery (+) on a large post, one from the block ground on a large post, and one from i don't know where on a small post between them.

The "third" (ground) lead may have been added by a PO.

The large lead from the battery should have full battery voltage at all times while connected.

The smaller lead comes from the starter motor relay, and should only be energised with the key in the START position.

I think he's saying to disconnect the large lead (from the battery) from the battery post, and check voltage again. I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish (edify me, please!) but maybe he's looking for a "voltage leak?"

A "slow crank" on RENIX (or pretty much anything else) often comes back to a shonky/dirty main ground - cleaning that up may help. A "hard start" on RENIX is common, and usually comes back to a contaminated firewall ground strap.

 

[winterbeater]

Exactly, fubarxj thinks his starter is drawing current and taking his battery down, possible because it's soaked in oil. By disconnecting at battery and checking for current flow, he will know if that is happening.

 

[winterbeater]

Actually, after reading this again, it reminds me of a battery on it's last legs. Barely starts in the morning and won't start after 3 or 4 days. You should get battery tested.

 

[fubar XJ]

Actually, after reading this again, it reminds me of a battery on it's last legs. Barely starts in the morning and won't start after 3 or 4 days. You should get battery tested.

I will, but like I said, it's only 3 months old, Optima red-top. There has to be something drawing it down, as the alternator charges a pretty consistent 13-14 volts based both on the dash gauge and a voltmeter at idle.

Since it's soaked in oil and at least 5-6 years old, I think I'll replace the starter. It can't hurt anything, and may help. Beyond that, I'll hit up my work buddy to do that dead-draw fuse test he talked about.

Thanks for the help gentlemen.

 

[winterbeater]

Worst case scenario: Summit battery disconnect switch.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

I've got a similar problem. I crank it and it kinda of stutters then stalls out then I turn it again and it fires up right away. I replaced the battery less than a week ago so I know it isn't that. I'm hoping it isn't the actual starter beginning to die down. I'm a noob too so I'm a little car stupid sometimes.

 

[Redsnake]

Did you ever get this resolved? I'm experiecing similar issues on my 96 & just had the battery & alternator checked & both are good.

 

[Leep]

Change the cables. They will corrode under the coating and you will never see the bad spot.

Mainly the positive cable.

 

[Redsnake]

Change the cables. They will corrode under the coating and you will never see the bad spot.

Mainly the positive cable.

If this is for me, then my cables are good. I have the full new HD wiring kit from 5-90 installed on my 96 XJ.

 

[joyboy09]

:repair:check timing, i had the same problem and i timed it in and now it cranks right up.

 

[88 Wagonman]

:repair:check timing, i had the same problem and i timed it in and now it cranks right up.

The timing on a 91 is not adjustable in the same manner as the carb models. To have a slow cranking problem be caused by timing it would have to be advanced quite a bit. What year did you adjust it on? 84-86 XJ? 2.5, 2.8? Not really the same thing.

 

[5-90]

If this is for me, then my cables are good. I have the full new HD wiring kit from 5-90 installed on my 96 XJ.

Thanks! I do try to seal things up well - I'm not happy with the way OEMs do things...

Are the contact points for your grounds nice and clean? At the fender liner and the firewall?

Is the contact point between your starter motor and your engine/transmission nice and clean?

How old is your CPS? It may be starting to generate a corrupt signal and causing you trouble.

I'm going to go out on a libe and assume your dizzy and timing chain haven't skipped a tooth (and you'd probably know it if they had.)

 

[Redsnake]

A followup for me....

All contacts were clean and looked good. I pulled the starter & realized I still had the OE Jeep/Mitzu and with 232K miles it was finally worn out. It tested ok, but I replaced it with a Reman f Autozone it it has fired up strong now about 10 times so hopefully thatfixed my problem.