Renix Knock sensor, very rough vibs now

[Ecomike]

Do you wanna tell them, or should I? LOL.

BTW, I did test my TPS with the DRB and got 89% reading from the TPS output at WOT.

I think I found that the Mopar TPS (one I bought years ago, NOS) gave me a higher WOT reading than the Standard products ones I bought from Rock auto on close out in the past 10 years, and the Standard products TPS was about the same (I think) as the brand new ones I bought off ebay recently. But none of them came close to fixing my very low WOT % throttle readings.

What fixed it?

The 90 degree bent, throttle rod with the black plastic snap on ends was bent and was causing the TPS and the throttle body both to not be able to get past about 60% of WOT. Right now with the Mopar TPS (NOS from 10 years ago) and a re-bent to match my other Renix jeeps, throttle rod attached to the throttle body, I am now seeing 91% :laugh3n the snap on MT-2500 scanner at WOT.:woohoo:

I will report my test drive results tomorrow once I have had the chance to get it out on the open road. But the throttle response in park is awesome. Maybe as good or better than my other 2 Renix rigs right now.

 

[Ecomike]

I would need to retest it, but I am 95% sure that the new China TPS sensors gave me no more that 70% at WOT in my test today, with the rod removed, and as noted below I got 91% even with the modified rod installed (about 93% with it installed) using the old new stock Mopar TPS I bought on close out about 10 years ago.

So there may indeed be a reason to go factory Mopar on the TPS sensors for Renix, if they are still made the same way today and are not also sourced from China!!! Unless of course you have kids driving it and you want to limit the power, acceleration and top speed of the jeep LOL, then use the cheap China TPS they have on Ebay right now for $7!!!! Note that the old TPS from about 10 years ago (Autozone?) also had the low WOT numbers even with the rod removed, only got to about 70% IIRC?

 

[Ecomike]

Thanks!!!!!

Oh, BTW, do you have a stash of those throttle rods?

Do you wanna tell them, or should I? LOL.

BTW, I did test my TPS with the DRB and got 89% reading from the TPS output at WOT.

 

[cruiser54]

Thanks!!!!!

Oh, BTW, do you have a stash of those throttle rods?

Certainly.

 

[Ecomike]

I think I should get my hands on one or two.

 

[cruiser54]

I think I should get my hands on one or two.

Those and IATs.

 

[Ecomike]

Those and IATs.

Real Renix IATs?

 

[cruiser54]

Real Renix IATs?

Yeah.

 

[Ecomike]

Final update I think. I had to re-adjust the throttle body idle stop ear a wee bit today to solve a cold no start and low idle from yesterdays tweeking. I reset the TPS and test drove the beast. It is awesome the difference fixing that bent throttle rod made.

About 13 years ago when I bought the 87 wagaoneer it took 3 mins to get from 0-60 mph. At WOT it would upshift at 1250 RPM to the next gear and would be in 4th gear at 25 mphs, LOL, it was totally gut less. New Cats helped some. A new ground for both sides of the TPS and a new TPS helped a bunch, it then would up shift at 2500 rpm and was actually drivable the last 13 years or so.

Today after the final fine tuning, at WOT it upshifts at 4000 RPM and drives like a bat out of hell!!!! All it took was 13 years of sleuthing followed by bending the throttle linkage ROD with the two black plastic QC snap on ends back to the factory shape like my other Renix jeeps have, and a new TPS sensor (Not sure now if new TPS sensor did anything to help, I think reshaping the throttle rod did it all).

But the Snap on MT-2500 scanner made it so much easier to troubleshoot and to adjust the TPS.

I still have a wee bit of shakes sometimes (Nothing like before) at about 50 mph during a gear shift I think, at WOT, maybe the tire I robbed from the recently wrecked 89 Renix rig needs to be balanced again.

Will be interesting to see if the MPGs now jump from 11 to 20 MPGs!!!! It just might!!!

 

[cruiser54]

Ever seen this?

http://cruiser54.com/?p=94

 

[Ecomike]

The rod I am talking about that was bent is the silver one on the right side of this photo that has the black plastic snap on end piece attached the ball joint on the end of the throttle body arm. It is horizontal for about 3 inches then turns down vertical on a 90 degree bend (factory), but mine was about a 110 degree bend, causing all sorts of throttle response problems and lack of power and low mpg grief that limited the max throttle opening and limited the % of WOT data from the TPS to the ECU. Comparing it to my 89 rig solved the problem. Using my data from my new to me snap-on MT-2500 scanner (ebay used buy) measuing WOT TPS data (ignition in run, but engine off) gave me the first clue as to what was wrong.

Here is another good view of it:

 

[Saudade]

So, are you saying it healed?

 

[Ecomike]

So, are you saying it healed?

While trying to solve a new problem, I figured out and solved a related 13 year old problem that had me thinking for 13 years the engine was on its last legs, when it fact it is not. I also discovered the 8 year old O2 sensor was already dead as well. Still have some shakes at about 50 mph on the way from 40 to 60 mph. May be the tire I stole from the rolled and wrecked jeep on the front drivers side out of balance since the wreck. But the initial issue has so far been a bad confirmed bad O2 sensor (internal electric heater was open circuit) and a bent throttle body rod and possibly a dying TPS sensor in the 1/2 to 3/4 of WOT range that by itself was not the problem. And by itself the O2 sensor was not the entire problem.

I still have 2 bad valve guides that have been fouling plugs 1 & 2 for 65,000 miles the last 13 years. The head is finally scheduled for a swap soon. The shake showed up a week after I swapped the front tire though, so it was OK the first 70-100 miles. It shakes less if I turn off the power to the TC lock up solenoid with my manual by pass switch in the 45-50 mph range. It shakes more if am accelerating in that range. Less if I put in third gear manually, and or unlock the TC, which changes the engine RPM-torque range-loading .....

In other words it is a complex multi variable issue still LOL. By I am stoked at solving a 13 year old puzzle finally. I am known for never giving up when it comes to puzzle solving LOL.:yelclap:

 

[Saudade]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, our ol' Renix rigs seem to be a perpetual work in progress.

Overall mine has been running well but suffers from signs of "old age". My headliner is sagging (again), a few trim pieces have broken off, my rear leafs sag a bit (on the Jeep not me, well ok me too a bit).

Keep us posted!!

 

[Ecomike]

911 help panic call!!!! :helpme:

It never ends it seems. I got the scare of my life last night. After multiple test drives with improving operation, suddenly at 45-50 mph I got the death wobble (DW) from hell, like nothing I have ever felt before. I could not safely brake or steer at all. Thought I was goner. I came with no warning cruising at about 45 mph on straight run with my foot off the gas pedal. Was way too violent I think to have been just engine vibration. Once it stopped it drove and ran fine as long as stayed at or under about 38 mph.

I had DW with this rig about 8 years ago and replaced all the front steering linkage. It was very, VERY scary, but was at 30 mph after hitting a chuck hole in the road right after a right turn. Also had DW on the 89 late last year several times on the freeway, but we got to it before it got too bad, and replaced everything on the suspension. Sad to say it got rear ended and rolled 2 weeks ago, so I am down to one rig for my DD right now. Long story short I know what DW feels like. THis was the worst. But was it just DW or did a violent engine shake malfunction aid it?

Problem is I am not 100% sure what the problem is. I have not replaced the steering stabilizer I pulled off about 6 weeks ago. But the rig drove fine on the freeway and every where for weeks with out. It also drove fine for a week with the tire on the front drivers side from the wrecked jeep, it looks OK, but I wonder if it is out of balance and adding to the problem. But I don't see it as the only problem. I still wonder if my engine could be doing this violent shake and setting off what feels like suspension DW?

So far my buddy has not been able to find what feel like any loose parts after about 4-5 tries to feel loose parts by hand.

Oh, and the breaking anti rattle clip problem returned right after the DW attack, about 2-3 miles later. That is a problem with the rail guide the brake pads ride on, on the steering knuckle being knotched enough to bounce the pad around on engagement. So the knock-knock on that front side is back when I engage the brakes gently at about 5-10 mph. It may not be related but????

There has also been a mild pulsing of the brake pedal for months when I apply the brakes at freeway speeds, been like that so long I ignore it mostly. Could that be a sign of worn suspension parts or front axle u-joints or??? That are part of this new unknown source of DW???

Could not having a stabilizer shock installed be making this way worse???

I need some ideas and hints on how to test for bad parts on the front end.

Last night the up and down and side to side shake at 45 mph was so violent that it felt like the front end was about to go airborne, literally, I had no road feeling or steering control at all, it was like she was floating on air, on momentum forward. I was lucky there were no stops to be made, cars around or turns coming up when it happened.

Oh, I do have some rubber coming loose on one rear bushing on the lower front driver's side control arm. Was planning to replace the control arm soon, could that be causing this?

What is involved in replacing the steering knuckle on a 4x4 front axle, if my welding repair plans fail??? Do I need to remove and replace the ball joints in that process?

Could very old ball joints cause DW? I have never replaced them.

Thanks for your help ahead of time!!!

 

[Saudade]

Well, I say something is bent or something is loose. Use a big screwdriver or pry bar. Do it on the ground and up on jacks.

If you're up for it, break apart each tie rod end (one at a time) and try to move the tapered shaft. They should be nice and tight. If any are easy to move around, the end is bad. I had one I could easily move around with just 2 fingers. I changed them all out.

A year or so earlier I did feel a bit of a shake around 60 mph. Above 60 was good, below was good. As far as I knew, the damper was original. Replacing it stopped the shake. I think I the TRE issue was the real cause that was masked a bit by a good damper.

In your case a damper may reduce the severity of the shake but not cure it.

Of course, this assumes your tires are properly balanced and inflated, not too worn.

If you suspect the tire, rotate the to the rear and see if you still have the DW.

 

[Ecomike]

Thanks those are some good ideas. Tires are all less than 2000 miles on them, essentially brand new and well tested. But one was robbed off the recently totaled and rolled rig (also only 1000 miles on it), so I will have the balance checked and then swap it to the rear. Great idea.

Could slop in the gear box add to the problem? Can only feel it with the front axle off the ground, but there is some slop in the gear box.

Confirmed a bad rear bushing on the lower control arm drivers side. But not sure that could cause this problem????

Possible weak tie rod end on the passenger side at the tire (end of the drag link). Drivers side ball joints are solid as a rock. Axle u-joints feel solid. Track bar is solid as a rock. Shocks do not feel bad at all, but thinking of replacing them anyway?

Has any one ever had an engine malfunction at random times only at 45-50 mph cause what fells like severe death wobble? Then go away if you stay under 40 mph????

 

[Ecomike]

One problem just confirmed. Tried to salvage a new tire/wheel from the freeway rolled-rear ended totaled 89 jeep (about 18 days ago), tire and wheel looked undamaged. I had it on the front drivers side the last 10-12 days and I tried to get it spin balanced today just to confirm it was OK and rule it out. Seems the guts of the cast aluminum wheel is bent enough that the out edge wobbles about 1/4", high to low on 360 degree turn.

We have one winner as at least part of the source of the death wobble. Add in the missing steering stabilizer....

I think I will still replace the cheap tie rod ends etc.

 

[Ecomike]

So one invisible bent front tire rim, 1 bad lower control arm bushing and no stabilizer/dampener shock nearly had me pushing daisies.

 

[Ecomike]

Re: Death wobble from hell at 5 mph, LOL

Here is the entire story on this wild ride with Death Wobble!!!!

First problem was I tried to reuse what turned out to be a bent internally cast aluminum wheel/tire assy. 1/4 " wobble side to side at the rim edge showed up on a spin balance. It was damaged on the 89 when it got totaled/rear ended and rolled on the freeway in Nov :bawl:.

But before I discovered it, we replaced the tie rods ends, drag link, track bar, steering stabilizer (Which had been removed when the bushings fell out and I found it rattling around weeks earlier)...steering parts (Pitman arm and Ball joints were still OK), and one bad lower control arm was changed.

Then we botched the toe in adjustment bad and the DW was horrendous at even at 5 mph, LOL (not just at 48 mph). She was jumping and hoping all over the place at 5 mph. We had seriously botched the tow in, somehow we had it a 3"s of tow in. :eyes:

Figured out the botched measurement on tow in and fixed it, now at 1/8" and the tire balance test showed the bent rim. Fixed both (replaced the rim), and that pretty much fixed it up to 35-40 mph (did not test any higher speeds yet, at that time).

But I was supper picky at that point and replaced the bad front shocks that made her ride a lot better on bumpy roads. One shock had real serious issues.
Adjusted the tire pressure down a little and she steers herself now, hands free on a straight road at 60 mph

The original 48 mph DW was no doubt mostly caused by the bent tire rim, with some help from a bad bushing on the lower control arm and not having a steering stabilizer on her anymore!!!

The other parts were ready to go, time to replace them, but I doubt they were the cause of the DW. A 1/4 bent rim at 45 mph is not good!!!! The crazy thing was the tire was OK, it is on the jeep still, but the rim looked perfect, unscathed by the accident, no contact marks, so I have no idea how it got bent with out any signs of an impact on the rim???? Only way we detected it was bent was using a slow spin on a tire balancer.

During the servicing, the wild bucking horse ride at 5 mph, was the 3" toe-in fork up, LOL, on top of the bent tire rim.

So if I ever want to build a rodeo ride bucking jeep for rodeo fans, :laugh: I now know how to it, LMAO. It was literally hoping up and down and side to side, nearly loosing road contact at just 5 mph to compensate for the sever toe in.

So it was not the engine or drive train, or knock sensor.....etc.