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<renamed> I dont like the new Planned Parenthood gift certificates

IMORTL said:
Funny - But CHRISTmas is NOT a Christian Holiday - it was stolen from the druids along with all of your other 'holidays' -
I. The Origin of Christmas

A. A Long Evolution -- Christmas customs are an evolution from times long before the Christian period -- a descent from seasonal, pagan, religious, and national practices, hedged about with legend and tradition. Their seasonal connections with the pagan feasts of the winter solstice relate them to ancient times, when many of the earth's inhabitant's were sun worshipers. As the superstitious pagans observed the sun gradually moving south in the heavens and the days growing shorter, they believed the sun was departing never to return. To encourage the sun's return north (i.e., to give the winter sun god strength and to bring him back to life again), the sun gods were worshipped with elaborate rituals and ceremonies, including the building of great bonfires, decorating with great evergreen plants such as holly, ivy, and mistletoe, and making representations of summer birds as house decorations. The winter solstice, then, was the shortest day of the year, when the sun seemingly stood still in the southern sky. Observing the slowdown in the sun's southward movement, and its stop, the heathen believed that their petitions to it had been successful. A time of unrestrained rejoicing broke out, with revelry, drinking, and gluttonous feasts. Then, when the pagans observed the sun moving again northward, and a week later were able to determine that the days were growing longer, a new year was proclaimed.

B. Not Among the Earliest Christian Festivals -- Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. It was not celebrated, commemorated, or observed, neither by the apostles nor in the apostolic church -- not for at least the first 300 years of church history! History reveals that about 440 A.D., the Church at Jerusalem commenced the celebration of Christmas, following the lead of Roman Catholicism (see I.C.). It was sufficient for the early Christians that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, had been born. They praised God that Jesus Christ had, indeed, come in the flesh. The day and the time of His birth had no relevance to them, because Jesus was no longer physically on earth. He had returned to heaven. And it was the risen, exalted Christ to whom they looked, and that by faith -- not a babe laid in a manger. Jesus Christ is no longer a baby; no longer the "Christ-child," but the exalted Lord of all. And He does NOT somehow return to earth as a baby every year at Christmas-time -- though this is the impression given even in certain hymns sung in Protestant services. (See sub-report.)



Not that the truth matters to people who believe in religion....
Click to expand...


So if it's not about Christ? Why is it called CHRISTmas? and not Druidmas? Again the root word is Christ, that's not a big leap for folks who understand language concepts.

Here's a piece of info your cut-n-paste missed in the explaination. CHRISTmas is celebrated on January 7th by the orthodox sects, and that's probably not a correct date either, there is no birth certificate on record at the town hall. It was moved to December 25th in the 3rd century by Roman Catholics because the Roman population that had been converted were already celebrating a festival during that time frame. A Festival, and I'll spell it incorrectly so I just say, worshiping Saturn & Ops. It was easier for the Roman Emporer (sp) who had converted to Christianity to get the masses to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ during a customary period of festival. Likewise, as Christianity spread through the world local customs and traditions were incorporated into religious practice.

The Jewish Hebrews which became the 1st Christians, also had a holiday around the solistice...and I am to lazy to look up the spelling, Hanakuh (?) it deals with lights and candles. Another cross over tradition into the Christmas Holiday.

Now, the Druids had a Winter Solsitice Festival/Holiday. Stonehedge and that older building in Ireland are built on the solistice and equinox axis. I get it. These structures are older then the Egyptian Pyramids so pre-date Christianity by thousands of years. Fine. The solistice occurs on December 21st!, CHRISTmas on December 25th! (thank the Romans) That's a difference, and it doesn't change the fact that the root word for Christmas is CHRIST.

Let me provide a secular example.

Christopher Colombus, an Italian funded by Spain sails over to the "New World". He "discovers" it. Really? What about the million or so inhabitants already there? What about Leif Erikson? Columbus held the 1st press conference, had a better agent, whatever. The fact is he is given the credit by the majority of Americans for "discovering" something that already existed and had already been "discovered" by Europeans. It happens.

Here's another:

The Mexican Army defeated the invading French Army in 1862 at the Battle of Puebla. 120 years later, Budwieser & some Tortilla Chip company hijack the celebration and turn it into a National Day of drinking.

Similiar to how Christmas was hijacked by the marketeers to the creed of consumerism. Personally, I don't care what you believe, how or what you worship or chose not to. As in the election I am just pointing out opposing views. There are always two sides to every coin. I don't believe anywhere in the post you quoted I defended Christianity as the the one and only religion. Just that CHRISTmas, stolen, borrowed, absorbed, integrated whatever term you are comfortable with celebrates the birth of Christianity and Catholic teachings are opposed to the goals of Planned Parenthood.

Two facts: 1st the language is the language. The root word is Christ, no escaping that fact. 2nd, as much as the Christians are accused of ramming their religion down other peoples throats, I see the same from those that believe God does not exist.

Read my sig, it fits.

Not that the truth matters to people who oppose religion....
 
From the same post
Personally, I don't care what you believe, how or what you worship or chose not to.
Click to expand...

Not that the truth matters to people who oppose religion....
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight. I'm free to believe/worship whatever I choose, as long as I agree with you. Otherwise I place no value in truth and everything I believe is a lie?
 
Oh, and Boatwrench, about your sig...

...Is that not a perfectly valid scenario?
Is it not possible that not a single one of the 6billion or so of us is 'right'?
Is it not also possible that every single one of us is a little bit 'right'?
Wouldn't that make everybody right while at the same time, everybody is wrong?
 
kujito said:
From the same post




So let me get this straight. I'm free to believe/worship whatever I choose, as long as I agree with you. Otherwise I place no value in truth and everything I believe is a lie?
Click to expand...

Context. Thanks.

Let me make this straight for you AGAIN. Yes you are free to believe/worship whatever you choose, I don't care. You don't need to agree with me whatsoever and you obviously don't. It is also plain to see you did not comprehend my post. I didn't agrue that Christianity was right, that non believe was not or vice versa.

If you had comprehended the entire (2nd) post you would understand that I was pointing out there was more to the selection of December 25th than just the little piece about the solstice Imortal posted to make his point of view AND a little dig to his line accusing religious people of buying into (his view) a big lie or some fantasy.

About the sig... If one is so adamant in their stance and believe that they are correct then they will turn a deaf ear to any other view point. (MY definition of being closed minded). The anti-religious folks are just a zealous in their opposition to religion as the religious right in promoting theirs. It's a trend that is relatively easy to see if you comprehend the postings on the boards. It fits for the liberal left and the conservative right also.

It's from a 60's anti-war song
 
Boatwrench said:
So if it's not about Christ? Why is it called CHRISTmas? and not Druidmas?
Click to expand...
Because the Christian cult stole the holiday to con the people into believing in their myth…

Again the root word is Christ, that's not a big leap for folks who understand language concepts.
Click to expand...

I understand the root of the word -

Here's a piece of info your cut-n-paste missed in the explaination. CHRISTmas is celebrated on January 7th by the orthodox sects, and that's probably not a correct date either, there is no birth certificate on record at the town hall. It was moved to December 25th in the 3rd century by Roman Catholics because the Roman population that had been converted were already celebrating a festival during that time frame. A Festival, and I'll spell it incorrectly so I just say, worshiping Saturn & Ops. It was easier for the Roman Emporer (sp) who had converted to Christianity to get the masses to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ during a customary period of festival. Likewise, as Christianity spread through the world local customs and traditions were incorporated into religious practice.
Click to expand...
There was SO much more I could have pasted on this subject – but I just wanted to get the fact that X-mas was not a Christian celebration – you can argue and deny it all you want – but it wont change that fact…


The Jewish Hebrews which became the 1st Christians, also had a holiday around the solistice...and I am to lazy to look up the spelling, Hanakuh (?) it deals with lights and candles. Another cross over tradition into the Christmas Holiday.
Click to expand...
Now, the Druids had a Winter Solsitice Festival/Holiday. Stonehedge and that older building in Ireland are built on the solistice and equinox axis. I get it. These structures are older then the Egyptian Pyramids so pre-date Christianity by thousands of years. Fine. The solistice occurs on December 21st!, CHRISTmas on December 25th! (thank the Romans) That's a difference, and it doesn't change the fact that the root word for Christmas is CHRIST.
Click to expand...
And doesn’t change the fact that X-mas isn’t a real Christian holiday… It may have been bastardized into being thought of as one- but it isn’t – I have friends who claim to be “real Christians” and they refuse to celebrate – Christmas, Easter and most of the other ‘so called’ Christian holidays.

Here is another Cut and Paste for you and as to why you think Christmas is a Christian holiday –

The Christmas celebration as we know it today, is clearly pagan in origin, that is it has Satan's prints all over it. When researching it anyone can see it is clearly not a Christian holiday. What bothers me is so many preachers know what it is and still do nothing about it. They stand in the pulpit year after year and do not tell the "flock", that it is one of the pagans most sacred days. Why is this? Do these men of God not know about it? The reason is the "flock" would not accept it and would run the preacher off!! They will let the "flock" drown in sin at risk of loosing their pay check and position. It boils down to no GUTS!! I get mail daily from pagans and once in awhile they will slip in the fact that the church celebrates their holiday, and they are correct!!! Its time for Gods people to get some backbone and stop the non-sense. We best do something or God will.

--


Let me provide a secular example.
Click to expand...
Christopher Colombus, an Italian funded by Spain sails over to the "New World". He "discovers" it. Really? What about the million or so inhabitants already there? What about Leif Erikson? Columbus held the 1st press conference, had a better agent, whatever. The fact is he is given the credit by the majority of Americans for "discovering" something that already existed and had already been "discovered" by Europeans. It happens.
Click to expand...

LOL doesn’t change the fact that Columbus didn’t discover it – does it? stop proving my point…


Here's another:
Click to expand...
The Mexican Army defeated the invading French Army in 1862 at the Battle of Puebla. 120 years later, Budwieser & some Tortilla Chip company hijack the celebration and turn it into a National Day of drinking.
Click to expand...

DUDE! Stop it – you sound retarded – the people of Mexico don’t celebrate Cinco De Mayo – Only the retarded people up here who don’t know the truth!!!

Similiar to how Christmas was hijacked by the marketeers to the creed of consumerism. Personally, I don't care what you believe, how or what you worship or chose not to. As in the election I am just pointing out opposing views. There are always two sides to every coin.
Click to expand...
There may be 2 sides to every coin – but the truth is the truth – and Christmas isn’t a Christian holiday – sorry

I don't believe anywhere in the post you quoted I defended Christianity as the the one and only religion. Just that CHRISTmas, stolen, borrowed, absorbed, integrated whatever term you are comfortable with celebrates the birth of Christianity and Catholic teachings are opposed to the goals of Planned Parenthood.
Click to expand...
Never commented about if your religion was the one and only – only that the holiday that was - stolen, borrowed, absorbed, integrated whatever term you are comfortable with – from another cult –

Two facts: 1st the language is the language. The root word is Christ, no escaping that fact. 2nd, as much as the Christians are accused of ramming their religion down other peoples throats, I see the same from those that believe God does not exist.
Click to expand...
Fact Three: I never argued the name of the holiday
Fact Four: You are free to believe whatever you want – some people still believe the earth is flat – good for them and good for you

Fact Five: Christmas is not a Christian Holiday…


Read my sig, it fits.
Click to expand...
Not that the truth matters to people who oppose religion....
Click to expand...

So now you claim your faith is now truth?


LOL – you are a funny guy…
 
Christmas is a Christian holiday.

The passing of winter solstice is a pagan holiday.

They just happen to be on the same day now.

Christmas has better advertising.
 
DUDE! Stop it – you sound retarded – [/quote]


Boatwrench -

I would like to apologize for that comment - that was uncalled for - -

there is no need for that whether we agree or not...

Sorry -

Ken
Click to expand...
 
Ken,
It's cool. I don't take this stuff personal.
but Thanks, that's appreciated and let's hoist a cold one, or maybe a wassail to each other. :peace:
Tom
 
IMORTL said:
Funny - But CHRISTmas is NOT a Christian Holiday - it was stolen from the druids along with all of your other 'holidays'
Click to expand...
I'm not gonna bother to copy and paste from somewhere, but the Christmas holiday is a Christian holiday. Many of the traditions, including the timing, surrounding Christmas (tree, date, lights, etc) are pagan in origin. Why? Because the early Christian church wanted to try and reach out to the pagans by making the transition to celebrating Christ's birth instead of the winter solstice as easy as possible. Have you ever heard of a church holding a Harvest Fest on the same day as everyone else is celebrating Halloween? An attempt to reach out to the non-Christians and provide a safer alternative to Halloween.

EDIT: Seems I came a bit late to this debate....:D
My one question then is: Why all the hostility towards Christianity? Seriously. Most of the people I know lack this level of hostility in regards to atheism. As I've pointed out before (and others here have as well), for all the anger and yelling about how Christians constantly try to force our views down everyone else's throats, it would seem atheists are guilty of the same. Y'all are just a little angrier about it...;)
 
Last edited:
Darky said:
I'm not gonna bother to copy and paste from somewhere, but the Christmas holiday is a Christian holiday. Many of the traditions, including the timing, surrounding Christmas (tree, date, lights, etc) are pagan in origin. Why? Because the early Christian church wanted to try and reach out to the pagans by making the transition to celebrating Christ's birth instead of the winter solstice as easy as possible. Have you ever heard of a church holding a Harvest Fest on the same day as everyone else is celebrating Halloween? An attempt to reach out to the non-Christians and provide a safer alternative to Halloween.

EDIT: Seems I came a bit late to this debate....:D
My one question then is: Why all the hostility towards Christianity? Seriously. Most of the people I know lack this level of hostility in regards to atheism. As I've pointed out before (and others here have as well), for all the anger and yelling about how Christians constantly try to force our views down everyone else's throats, it would seem atheists are guilty of the same. Y'all are just a little angrier about it...;)
Click to expand...

not really hostile - just responding with equal conviction as the other party -


now an insite (and a laugh) on my beliefs... I believe in karma - for the most part -

Guess what I found when I got home today??? ---

My Christmas tree had fallen over and all the lights, garland and ornaments all came off... NOW THAT IS FUNNY - I dont care who you are... Karma is a bitch... (Jesus kicked my tree over LOL)

Ken
 
Christmas is coming :D
 
cracker said:
Christmas is coming :D
Click to expand...

Well, seeing as how YOU revived this old thread, caught something on the news today.

I think it was NY state, could be wrong, they are going to REQUIRE non-abortion birth clinics to post warnings that don't do abortions, that they won't refer women to abortion clinics, blah, blah blah.

When it was tried to amend the law so that the ABORTION clinics would have to post a warning that they only do abortions, that they won't refer women to clinics that don't do abortions, well, that amendment was soundly defeated.

You have got to love the logic of LSD Zombies.
 
ruSerious.jpg
 
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