Problems With Tennessee Offroad

[Lucas]

I found a set of D44s off the TOR message boards a few months ago. Rear stock with disks out of an isuzu and a front off a Jtruck with a full detroit, 5:56 gears, and warn lockouts. I had my little brother swing by the shop and give Dave Midgett (the original seller) a $100 deposit.
I live 3 hours away from the shop, so I told Dave that I would give him the rest of the money when I came to pick up the axles. He INSISTED that I send a blank MO to him for the remainder of the price. I figured that the shop was pretty reputable so I went ahead an sent a postal MO. For THREE weeks afterwards Dave told me that the MO didn't arrive (remember, I live only 3 hours away). After about a month he told me it came in. I was still in school and couldn't pick up the axles for another two weeks, so he told me to call a couple of days ahead of time because they were out at his dad's farm or something.
I called his cell last week intending to pick up the axles this weekend, but he hung up on me. Then his phone died or somehting cell has been going straight to voicemail for the past few days. I called the TOR shop this morning and talked to a guy who told me that the axles had been there the entire time and that he sold them already to someone else. Furthermore, Dave Midgett doesn;t even work there anymore!

The guy on the phone told me that Dave was going to swing by that afternoon, so Im going to go and wait for him. Ive been talking on the phone with various lawyers (friends, family, professors at Vanderbilt) and basically its TOR, in addition to Dave that subject to legal action as
A) I have TOR reciepts for the money that was given to dave...
B) The money was sent to TOR (thankfully) instead of Dave's house

and semantically speaking, he ensured me that it was ok to send the MO to him as he was the manager of TOR, thus a representative of the business . Thanks for listening to the rant. Let me know if I should do anything else, and if this post should be in a different forum please move it. THANKS.

 

[Eagle]

I don{t know of anything we can do to help. The guy appears to have taken money under false pretenses, so if yiou have documentation of the fact you sent him money orders, either sue him or just call the cops. Fraud is still a criminal offense.

 

[Cottontail]

I used to have TOR do all the work on my Jeep, but hadn't been there in awhile and heard that it had changed over and a lot of the "old timers" had moved onto bigger and better things. It sounds like that is the case.

I have not been back to them in years. You might want to try to PM Carpenter, as he is the one that gave me the warning, and he used to do more than I did with TOR. He may give you more insight on the inner workings.

Sorry man...bad news.

 

[Lucas]

The current employees at TOR have been stand up guys thus far. Went to the shop today and waited all afternoon for Dave to show up. He never did, but a rep from the owner dropped by and spoke with me. He promised me that he was going to make it right, all I have to do is send it the reciepts that I have. We'll see, but so far it looks pretty promising.

 

[gearwhine]

DO NOT! send him the receipts you have...once they're gone, you're screwed. Send him copies.

 

[ChiXJeff]

Eagle has the right idea...... but if you sent the MO through the United States Postal Service, he's also guilty of mail fraud. Contact your Postmaster, they have TEETH.

 

[Stick]

Eagle has the right idea...... but if you sent the MO through the United States Postal Service, he's also guilty of mail fraud. Contact your Postmaster, they have TEETH.

Where are you located exactly ? I know the Postal Inspector out of Knoxville. He probably works your area. Hes a great guy that loves my Jeep. I'm sure he would jump on the mail fraud.

 

[Lucas]

DO NOT! send him the receipts you have...once they're gone, you're screwed. Send him copies.

I meant Im going to fax him my ceciepts. Im located next to the university on Laurel ave. 37916. If it starts getting worse, ill have to look up your postmaster friend up.

 

[Eagle]

Eagle has the right idea...... but if you sent the MO through the United States Postal Service, he's also guilty of mail fraud. Contact your Postmaster, they have TEETH.

I thought about that, but the guy is only on the hook for mail fraud if HE used the mail to make his offer. Lucas was free to send payment any way he chose, so the fact that he mailed a money order doesn't (I think) get the guy in the net for mail fraud.

But it wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

[Lucas]

Well, just scanned and Emailed teh reciepts, so hopefully this can get ironed out. It sucks to wait and wait and wait to put in axles that have already been sold. I just want my money back.

 

[Lucas]

Hey everyone, I sent the reciepts and so far its looking like somewhat of a stalemate. I know for a fact that the people at TOR are reading the post I put on pirate. It would be EXTREMELY helpful if people would go to that post and write exactly what you think about this situation, and how you think it should be resolved.
Here is a link.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260833

I really really appreciate it. Free beer if you post and I see you out in Moab!

 

[woody]

So you are playing this out on several boards for what purpose?

 

[Carpenter]

So you are playing this out on several boards for what purpose?

I would imagine his reasoning is to pressure TOR or Dave Midget into giving him his money back. This is probably the only way he will ever get it back. Dave Midget is apparently long gone and TOR as a business is somewhat liable (at least in my eyes) since Dave advertised on the TOR board and used TOR as a mechanism to swindle Lucas's money from him. No business likes negative PR on the internet, I think Lucas is smart for getting the word out like he has. They have had enough time to make things right and haven't, what's Lucas supposed to do, give up? If I didn't have somewhat of a biased position on the situation I would post on PBB. I don't think my posting would help his case much but you guys could help him out. The longer this situation stays in the public eye the more likely it is that TOR will do the right thing and give Lucas back the money thier former manager took from him.

 

[bgcntry72]

Jesus xxxxx Christ, its the same post, with the same responses.
I almost want you to lose your loot for making me read both threads.
When are you copying and pasting the whole thing to JU?
That is all.

 

[Fergie]

Jesus xxxxx Christ, its the same post, with the same responses.
I almost want you to lose your loot for making me read both threads.
When are you copying and pasting the whole thing to JU?
That is all.

Boy are you some kind of xxxxxxx to wish that on someone. You'd think with all the crap you post about on your mishaps you'd have some sympathy for the dude.

Fergie

PS- If you're going to Moab in OCT, I should be there and I owe ya a six pack, so let me know.

 

[Eagle]

He may be trying to get Tennessee Offroad to pony up, but the basic fact is he was not dealing with "the shop," he was dealing with an individual who was at one time affiliated with the shop. I think trying to bad-mouth the shop on forums is a mistake. First, it wasn't their fault, so it's not fair to be posting comments that convey the impression they screwed you. Second, they really have no legal liability in this, so while you fiddle around trying to pressure them, you're not doing what you should be doing, which is talking to the cops.

 

[Carpenter]

He may be trying to get Tennessee Offroad to pony up, but the basic fact is he was not dealing with "the shop," he was dealing with an individual who was at one time affiliated with the shop. I think trying to bad-mouth the shop on forums is a mistake. First, it wasn't their fault, so it's not fair to be posting comments that convey the impression they screwed you. Second, they really have no legal liability in this, so while you fiddle around trying to pressure them, you're not doing what you should be doing, which is talking to the cops.

He was dealing with the former manager of TOR. To hear Dave Midget tell it he was TOR, I can easliy see how Lucas thought he was dealing with "the shop". Under the title of manager of TOR Dave Midget lists a set of axles on TOR's message board for sale. He uses his position as shop manager to convince someone to send him money prior to the exchange of goods. He also uses a TOR phone number and TOR's mailing address to obtain the funds. The way I see it and the way Lucas seems to see it he was dealing with TOR through its manager. Now I don't know the particulars of the law in this regard but to me the owner of TOR should (or should at least want to) take responsibility and clean up the mess that someone representing TOR created. I have read all the posts on this matter on both boards and I don't see it as bad mouthing TOR. He's relaying his story to others to see if it's happened to anyone else, to see if he's right or wrong in what he's doing to try and get his money back, and to try and bring the matter to the attention of others in hopes that TOR will do right by him to save face in the public eye. I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Eagle]

He's relaying his story to others to see if it's happened to anyone else, to see if he's right or wrong in what he's doing to try and get his money back, and to try and bring the matter to the attention of others in hopes that TOR will do right by him to save face in the public eye. I don't see a problem with it.

You're essentially agreeing that he is trying to pressure TOR -- the company -- to (as you call it) "do right by him" when in fact they never did wrong by him. If Dave Midgett used the TOR board to advertise an axle he was selling personally, it doesn't (to me) make any more sense asking the company to pay him back than it would make sense for someone who gets shafted on an offer seen on the classifieds to expect to pay him back.

I don't see any reason why TOR should do anything more than provide Dave Midgett's last known address and telephone number to the police when they call to investigate. It is simply unfair to expect a company to make up for something a former employer did, not as a representative of the company, but as an individual. Lucas has a legal claim against Dave Midgett. If TOR decides to be nice and pay Lucas, what recourse do they have to recoup the money from Dave? NONE. They didn't answer his ad, they didn't send him a money order. They have no dog in this fight.

 

[Safari Ary]

I almost want you to lose your loot for making me read both threads.

How does one MAKE someone read something on the internet? That is all.

 

[Safari Ary]

He was dealing with the former manager of TOR. To hear Dave Midget tell it he was TOR, I can easliy see how Lucas thought he was dealing with "the shop". Under the title of manager of TOR Dave Midget lists a set of axles on TOR's message board for sale. He uses his position as shop manager to convince someone to send him money prior to the exchange of goods. He also uses a TOR phone number and TOR's mailing address to obtain the funds. The way I see it and the way Lucas seems to see it he was dealing with TOR through its manager. Now I don't know the particulars of the law in this regard but to me the owner of TOR should (or should at least want to) take responsibility and clean up the mess that someone representing TOR created. I have read all the posts on this matter on both boards and I don't see it as bad mouthing TOR. He's relaying his story to others to see if it's happened to anyone else, to see if he's right or wrong in what he's doing to try and get his money back, and to try and bring the matter to the attention of others in hopes that TOR will do right by him to save face in the public eye. I don't see a problem with it.

I agree. He didn't come on here saying "TOR is the worst shop ever, nobody ever talk to them again, and this is how they screwed me." He is merely spreading the word that he is having a problem in hopes that it will bring a resolution. Perhaps he is hoping that the owner of TOR will get after Dave to give the money back and save face in the process.