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Please. Help.

Banchewell

NAXJA Forum User
Location
CA
Hi there, been on this forum quite a bit for help which its been abundantly useful, finally made an account as I'm at my wits end and hoping someone can help. Had a 1992 xj 4.0HO for a few years now. When I bought it the guy ripped me off, didn't make it home and he told me to go f*** myself. A couple thousand later I got the overheating taken care of and can pass smog again. At this point it has a approx 3 inch add a leaf rough country lift drom previous owner (real crap job), and i swapped the rubber band 33s for some real 33s on steel rims stock size. Ran great for a couple years, lightly wheeled, still been my daily and only had one issue. Only once or twice a week when it was cold in the morning I'd go around this sweeping left hand turn at 40mph and it's start to wobble, felt like front left tire was bouncing. Slowed and straighten out and it'd go away, no further issues the rest of my ride. Did that off and on for 2 years until one day it goes through that just fine but later on in the day randomly goes into DW hard. Can barely go 25 without it shaking my teeth out. Thankfully I had just bought all bee suspension the week before since I hated the lift. I've lifted one before so I was familiar with the process. Lifted It onto DPG extreme lift with 4.5 inch OME leafs and shocks, new coil springs, new HD currectlync track bar, the whole kit. He sold me on the currectlync system as well, despite the price being "300% strength" or whatever. Whole new steering linkage down to HD TRE. Took it to 4wp had them throw on ACOS upper coil mounts as mine were shot and they checked the whole lift out to be safe. They aligned it. Got wheels rebalanced at firestone. At this point there's a wobble anytime I go 45-55mph. Kind of evens out after, worsens in left hand turns. I can look out the window and watch the tires shimmy. Still pretty bad but getting better with the new parts. Got it realigned at firestone. No fix. Now comes the painful part. I replaced the front wheel bearings, front rotors, calipers, ball joints to HD ball joints, new knuckles, everything new down the axle housing. It would slightly improve but never go away. No specialists in my area, finally got a recommendation from a distant one, hes okay, worked on a few cherokees. He goes through it and fins the only 2 bushings not replaced on the front, think we found a fix but no improvement. Then he rebalances the tires. Said they were way out and no one had put outside weights on. Maybe better but no fix. He replaced steering stabilizer from the new one with maybe 20 miles on it, still no fix. He says track bar mount looks okay, he put on a drop bracket for track bar. No fix. I doubted it was a good mount from what I saw so I went to a different mechanic, he said its utter crap so I got a custom fab kit for HD track bar mount. Got that welded on, no fix maybe slightly better. Still vibes in steering wheel that then travel to the rest of the car if it goes on Long enough in that 50-60mph range now. I can see the tires shimmy significantly less after all this but not gone. I know it'll continue to wear on everything until I find the fix. Can anyone help? Any new ideas? Last mechanic said replaced both front axle u joints but the shop he recommended is out of business and I can't find one to do them yet. I was told my steering box is shot so I have the AGR powerbox coming with a new steering selector as well. Anyone think that will help? Any ideas are welcome, thanks.
 
Reading back through i see I forgot to mention the new kit came with core 4x4 adjustable upper and lower control arms. They've been adjusted back and forth by each mechanic 4 times. No one agrees on sizing, it currently has 10 degrees of castor, last Mechanic said that won't cause the DW but I see some online resources saying it may contribute. Wheelbase is an inch shorter than stock. Planning on lengthening them out to adjust castor to 6 degrees today, doubt it'll fix but just so any responses are aware of where I'm at.
 
Have you looked at the steering box spacer? They like to disintegrate. Without that the box can flop around. Was the cause of recurring DW on my 94 (also in So Cal at the time)
 
TL;DNR.

Lifted Cherokees cannot be aligned to the stock specs. 10° of caster is too much, and probably causing the front drive line to vibrate. Try 4-5°.

Install a double shear track bar and throw out the track bar drop bracket.

Read up on all the causes of Death Wobble.

Use the chart for control arm lengths.


Lift...........Lower Control Arms/Upper Control Arms
********Decimal**Fraction**Decimal**Fraction
Stock........15.75.......15 ¾........15.00.......15
2”.............15.92.......16............14.88.... ...15
3”.............16.09.......16............14.92.... ...15
4”.............16.33.......16 3/8......15.03.......15
4.5”..........16.47.......16 ½........15.11.......15
5”.............16.62.......16 5/8......15.21.......15 ¼
6”.............16.97.......17............15.44.... ...15 ½
 
Take a pic of your draglink/trackbar bar angles.
 
Several thoughts...

Don't assume new parts are actually good parts. Particularly in today's supply chain situation.

Look into Kevin's Offroad track bar bushings. It is a bushing of a harder durometer and a bolt of a larger diameter.

Consider mounting a Go-Pro camera aimed at specific joints. Go for a drive and review footage. Aim at a different joint, rinse, repeat...

See if you can find a way to swap in a different set of wheels/tires that are known to be good and see if that makes a difference.

Don't keep throwing money at new parts until you identify the parts that are responsible for the problem

Steering box mount is a good thing to study closely. The sheet metal is known to crack in that area. For that matter, I gather the track bar mount is now welded on, but that doesn't mean it was done right. Someone posted up an example of that which failed because the inner bolts had been left out of the picture.

In spite of all the parts and labor you have thrown at this something is still wrong. That calls into question all the parts and labor done. You can't assume any of it was done right.
 
Have you looked at the steering box spacer? They like to disintegrate. Without that the box can flop around. Was the cause of recurring DW on my 94 (also in So Cal at the time)

I did! Thanks for the feedback, sorry I forgot to mention I replaced it before I did the new lift actually with a jcr steering box spacer, unfortunately the old one was shockingly intact and looked great.
 
TL;DNR.

Lifted Cherokees cannot be aligned to the stock specs. 10° of caster is too much, and probably causing the front drive line to vibrate. Try 4-5°.

Install a double shear track bar and throw out the track bar drop bracket.

Read up on all the causes of Death Wobble.

Use the chart for control arm

Threw out the old drop bracket when I got the new HD mounting welded on, ill check into a double sheet track bar to replace the HD new one I got.... I'll make sure to use this chart today to even out the arms and check the castor, good to know I'm not crazy for thinking that may contribute to the cause thanks!
 
Several thoughts...

Don't assume new parts are actually good parts. Particularly in today's supply chain situation.

Look into Kevin's Offroad track bar bushings. It is a bushing of a harder durometer and a bolt of a larger diameter.

Consider mounting a Go-Pro camera aimed at specific joints. Go for a drive and review footage. Aim at a different joint, rinse, repeat...

See if you can find a way to swap in a different set of wheels/tires that are known to be good and see if that makes a difference.

Don't keep throwing money at new parts until you identify the parts that are responsible for the problem

Steering box mount is a good thing to study closely. The sheet metal is known to crack in that area. For that matter, I gather the track bar mount is now welded on, but that doesn't mean it was done right. Someone posted up an example of that which failed because the inner bolts had been left out of the picture.

In spite of all the parts and labor you have thrown at this something is still wrong. That calls into question all the parts and labor done. You can't assume any of it was done right.

Great feedback, this is what I'm scared of haha, thankfully i did most myself despite the welding and new axle housing side bushings so I do feel comfortable on most of the work, but it's a great point about quality of parts/labor. I just had that go pro idea yesterday haha! I only have an older one and unfortunately after a good 30 minutes of videoing on the road when it wobbled I got an SD card error that won't go away. :( will definitely head to the store to grab a new card and try this again though! I'll update this thread with the angle of drag link/track bar as that seems to be a common response. I'll look into the Kevin's offroad parts as well, that seems like a good idea, im wondering if anyone has ever welded the unibody side track bar mount on? The one that that last lift got scrapped so it does have a new one I put on but they both did not conform to the unibody as closely as a hand made part seemed it should...
 
Several thoughts...

Don't assume new parts are actually good parts. Particularly in today's supply chain situation.

Look into Kevin's Offroad track bar bushings. It is a bushing of a harder durometer and a bolt of a larger diameter.

Consider mounting a Go-Pro camera aimed at specific joints. Go for a drive and review footage. Aim at a different joint, rinse, repeat...

See if you can find a way to swap in a different set of wheels/tires that are known to be good and see if that makes a difference.

Don't keep throwing money at new parts until you identify the parts that are responsible for the problem

Steering box mount is a good thing to study closely. The sheet metal is known to crack in that area. For that matter, I gather the track bar mount is now welded on, but that doesn't mean it was done right. Someone posted up an example of that which failed because the inner bolts had been left out of the picture.

In spite of all the parts and labor you have thrown at this something is still wrong. That calls into question all the parts and labor done. You can't assume any of it was done right.




On the topic of good parts, and my uncertainty in my track bar, anyone run the RE1660 with RE1665 and the RE1670? Seems to be a "bullet proof" option with the track bar brace... the brace interests me as no other kit I've found offers it..
 
Take a pic of your draglink/trackbar bar angles.
Not allowed to post attachments it says...
Made an imgur account for this haha, you should be able to click the link and view it without an account.
https://imgur.com/a/wppc6K0
wppc6K0
 
Caster.
 
, im wondering if anyone has ever welded the unibody side track bar mount on? The one that that last lift got scrapped so it does have a new one I put on but they both did not conform to the unibody as closely as a hand made part seemed it should...

Yes, it is common to do so. I thought that was what you meant with "got a custom fab kit for HD track bar mount. Got that welded on,*"

If you do weld on the frame side mount, do not weld the full perimeter and do make sure to place your welds where they can be gracefully cut out in the event you need to replace that mount. Those brackets are PITA to cut off. BTDT.
 
You 100% called it. I had 0 hopes of it working when I finally got around to it today, found that I was at 11° of caster, I used the table many provided as a guidelines but I didn't stop lengthening past that until I got 5.5° of caster. Ended up shearing both bolts for the UCAs somehow and all I thought it "what a big waste of time" on my way to get new ones as the last mechanic and so many other resources online said too much caster isn't bad and can't cause it. but it had it stuck in my head how crooked my bumpstops were inside my coils since the first time my lift was done. I almost didn't test drive after I was so certain it did nothing but low and beyond my jaw dropped when I drove it and the DW was gone at 35, 40, 50 and past 65 mph on a bumpy road even, very slight if at all even in turns. It does jiggle the wheel a bit when I hit large bumps, but I have a new box coming in soon so I'll update if it goes away completely after that.
Many thanks to everyone who contributed I really did not think I'd get same day closure on this seeing as it's been months of working on it! I'm hoping this isn't a bandaid fix and it's gone for good.
 
Yes, it is common to do so. I thought that was what you meant with "got a custom fab kit for HD track bar mount. Got that welded on,*"

If you do weld on the frame side mount, do not weld the full perimeter and do make sure to place your welds where they can be gracefully cut out in the event you need to replace that mount. Those brackets are PITA to cut off. BTDT.

Sorry for the confusion it was my axle side that i got a kit welded on from stinkyfab. Mine was ovaled out and previous owner drillled a new hoke in a seemingly weak part. Didn't end up being the bracket but im getting it welded on frame side for future proofing, thanks for the great input! I'll make sure to keep it clean on the welds.
 
Glad you got it figured out.

And thank you for posting the follow-up.
 
On the topic of good parts, and my uncertainty in my track bar, anyone run the RE1660 with RE1665 and the RE1670? Seems to be a "bullet proof" option with the track bar brace... the brace interests me as no other kit I've found offers it..
I run said setup with a V8 ZJ drag link and tie rod. With regard to control arms, I run the RE drop brackets (and reinforcement brackets) with JKS 6100 and 7100 control arms (apparently no longer available). Got my pinion angle and caster dialed in, and I can run 33's without a steering stabilizer with zero wobble at any speed (still running 3.55's, so my dumb ass pushed past 100 a few times with zero issues). I'm also running the steering gear reinforcement plate, for what it's worth (whoever made it).


Improper alignment in any regard and loose bushings/bolts will result in harmonic vibrations that create death wobble.
 
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