• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Nancy Pelosi won't allow the House to vote on new offshore drilling

SBrad001 said:
Reasonable enough, but try this one on.

It would be atleast 5 years, but more like 10 years, before that oil would it. In the same amount of time we could be investing in a viable alternative energy economy and have the frame work implemented. We would then be investing in our future economy instead of an old oil based economy.
Click to expand...

I don't know if alternative fuel source could be found in that same time period. I would ~they are out 20-30years to get everything developed and up and running.

And I second Rich's post. Coal liquification is the way to go and the Air Force is currently trying to convert all of their fuel over too it. Which if they do would open up the opportunity to create the infrastructure to pipe it nationally.
 
Lets just drill. As soon as GW said we were going to start drilling prices started coming down. You can blame the speculators all you want but you can't stop them from doing what they do. And as long as there is no new sources for oil they will continue to drive the prices higher.
Also if we don't drill and get that oil someone will. wasn't there an article out there somewhere about China setting up a slant drilling operation around Cuba to get this oil.
And yes we do need to find something new but its not going to happen over night. How long have people been working on electric cars? Seems like a long time to me and still they usually can't go any farther than 45 miles.
Heres a good idea, lets start building more railroad lines. Those living in the North East may have some expierence with Amtrak, but once you get out of that area their service sucks. Why, cause they don't own the lines, the cargo train companies do, and they charge Amtrak and arm and a leg to use the lines. If you've ever been to Europe and used their system then you know what I mean. If we had that in America that would push prices way down.
 
fscrig75 said:
Also if we don't drill and get that oil someone will. wasn't there an article out there somewhere about China setting up a slant drilling operation around Cuba to get this oil.
Click to expand...

The Chinese are pushing for a pipeline from the canadian sand oil fields to the pacific coast so they can get at the canadian stuff. Right now that pipeline comes down into the states, they want to 'T' it. The soviets are exploring the north pole and the polar seas and staking claims to oil and gas they think are there. To quote 'we're doing fawkall' in that direction. We need to clean house in DC and elect some common sense people off the street that have no political connections then we need to get the bribers errrr, lobbyists out of DC.
Right now the coal to liquid is the way to go, I mentioned Montana, but 8 other states are also ready to go who also have coal to LPG plants up and running. South Africa has been doing it for over 30 years and with 3 small plants are putting out 300,000 barrels of product, not oil, product which means they are going straight from coal to gas, diesel and kerosene as well as LPG, per day.
I firmly believe the feds are doing this on purpose, it's just too hard to swallow that the senate, house and president could be that incompetent, so much so that it has to be intentional. The media too, I see the word choices they use, oil goes up $2 a barrel and they say 'Oil ROCKETED TO A NEW HIGH TODAY', sorry, I don't consider a $2 increase a 'rocket', it's more of a fart, a rocket is going from $50 to $100, THATS a rocketing increase, the media fuels the frenzy through choice of words and headlines.
The push for bio fuels from corn and food sources just drives me crazy, it's like a feeding frenzy for politicians, using food sources for producing fuel is just plain nuts, using algae and pond scum makes much more sense, using food products is just plain stupid bordering on criminal.
Just my .02 cents.
Well, I'm going to go waste some gas and hit two movies today, saw hancock and thought it was good, going to see hellboy and dark knight today..
 
Its pretty easy to understand why Senate, House and President, are fighting each other on this. Trying to make the other look bad. If they open up offshore drilling and prices get somewhere back to normal, then McCain was right and Obama was wrong. Remember its election time, nothing is going to get passed till next year. Yea it will take 10 years to actually use that oil, but what do you think is driving up oil prices, speculation about the supply in the future. It has nothing to do with todays supply
Either way we do need to start looking hard at alternatives but no using what we have is just plain stupid.
 
The coal to LPG plants are a great idea...only problem is they require TONS of water, and the midwest isnt exactly brimming with fresh water. I've learned thats the issue with oil sands/shale drilling too. Sure, horizontal drilling is great, but you need tons of water/pressure in order to force the oil out of the rocks and up to the surface.

Regardless...we need to at least start drilling a bit more, along with doing much more in order to become self reliant on energy...
 
SBrad001 said:
Sorry, but I think that point of view is BS. Look at any war time footing that this nation has taken in the last 150 years. It takes a concerted effort for our economy to change this drastically.

If we wait for market forces to dictate this economic change, we, the average citizens, will pay the prices to line the pockets of rich industrialists and our economy will suffer waiting for the change to take place. But if the government allows vast taxes incentives for energy companies to research and develop a new energy infrastructure, we will all benefit.
Click to expand...

I don't understand, so help me out. Are you saying that the government should give those OIL (not energy) companies tax incentives to find an energy source, that is not what they are set up to produce? All the while not letting them pursue what they are setup to produce,because it will take several years to bring it to market, instead sending our money to other countries? While the rest of the world just bitches and expects results. I would rather Conoco-Phillips got my money than someone from another country.
Let them drill/produce oil. The rest of the world can find a profitable way to put them out of business. If the oil companies think they are going to be put out of business, they will help find another energy source and become evil HHO/sun/wind/nuke companies
We are not getting off of oil anytime soon.
 
Ironmen77 said:
I don't understand, so help me out. Are you saying that the government should give those OIL (not energy) companies tax incentives to find an energy source, that is not what they are set up to produce? All the while not letting them pursue what they are setup to produce,because it will take several years to bring it to market, instead sending our money to other countries? While the rest of the world just bitches and expects results. I would rather Conoco-Phillips got my money than someone from another country.
Let them drill/produce oil. The rest of the world can find a profitable way to put them out of business. If the oil companies think they are going to be put out of business, they will help find another energy source and become evil HHO/sun/wind/nuke companies
We are not getting off of oil anytime soon.
Click to expand...

You sure are short sighted. I could careless and don't trust the rest of the 'world' to develop alternative fuels.

Are we going to quit oil and time soon. Well, let's just say, "I can't quit oil." But that by noway means that we can't or shouldn't push for alternative fuels right now.

And the only way we're going to get a new energy infrastructure is by investing in it through our government. Washington sets the temp and direction, just like in WW2, the government initiated the greatest industrialization process the world has ever seen. It wasn't private industry, it was the government that led the way.

Private industry didn't make the atom bomb or develop nuclear powerplants, the government did. We have the technology to build 'clean' micro nuclear powerplants to power small towns; we have the technology to build coal to gasoline plants; we even have the research technology for algae farming for biodiesel production. Is it expensive? Yes, but sometimes we need to bite the bullet and tighten our belts in order to ween ourselves off something like oil. We've been addicted to cheap fuel for way too long and now that the end is here for cheap fuel, people such has yourself think that drilling for more oil is going to solve our problems. Sorry to tell you but it's not going to solve anything, only prolong the inevitable, squeeze ever last cent out of our pockets possible, and leave our economy in a complete and utter shambles.
 
JNickel101 said:
If we would quit doing stupid shit like sending $900 million to Africa every year to fight AIDS, and giving all sorts of 3rd world countries aid....we'd have plenty of money to both drill AND research alternative energy sources.

The latest Economic Stimulus Package should go towards building new oil refineries, nuke plants, wind turbine fields, solar fields, etc. Have the gov't build them, then auction them off to corporations once they're built.
Click to expand...

Brady...I think we're in agreement...Economic Stimulus Package ----> energy infrastructure...

I just think we need to drill our own shit as well...it will take years (20+) to replace every car and truck on the road with something that doesnt burn gas....if nothing else, it would prevent us from giving money to Russia, Mexico, Venezuela and Saudi....

:thumbup:
 
JNickel101 said:
Brady...I think we're in agreement...Economic Stimulus Package ----> energy infrastructure...

I just think we need to drill our own shit as well...it will take years (20+) to replace every car and truck on the road with something that doesnt burn gas....if nothing else, it would prevent us from giving money to Russia, Mexico, Venezuela and Saudi....

:thumbup:
Click to expand...


Oh. I'm not saying that we shouldn't drill and utilize our own resources. But I am very concerned that instead we will only drilling for oil without developing the new energy infrastructure. I think that's a very real possibility simply because of the shortsighted nature of the our public and the Republican party.

All we ever hear now is how we should or not drill the North Slope. Especially on this Forum, and nobody is really pushing for these alternative fuels and if they do, they're labeled a leftist liberal. Come on guys wake up! You've even got oil barons saying the same thing I'm saying.
 
SBrad001 said:
You sure are short sighted. I could careless and don't trust the rest of the 'world' to develop alternative fuels.

Are we going to quit oil and time soon. Well, let's just say, "I can't quit oil." But that by noway means that we can't or shouldn't push for alternative fuels right now.

I'm not making myself clear maybe. I'm all for alternative fuels, hell I'd quit gas today if there was something cheaper to run my junk. While we're developing these alternative fuels, lets burn our fuel as opposed to others.

And the only way we're going to get a new energy infrastructure is by investing in it through our government. Washington sets the temp and direction, just like in WW2, the government initiated the greatest industrialization process the world has ever seen. It wasn't private industry, it was the government that led the way.

The government didn't force Ford to make tanks, they let it out for bids. They made tanks,jeeps,etc. for the war and enough money to keep the company open and the good will for the future. It was the American people that led the way.

Private industry didn't make the atom bomb or develop nuclear powerplants, the government did. The private sector sure makes them better, now.
We have the technology to build 'clean' micro nuclear powerplants to power small towns; we have the technology to build coal to gasoline plants; we even have the research technology for algae farming for biodiesel production. Is it expensive? Yes, but sometimes we need to bite the bullet and tighten our belts in order to ween ourselves off something like oil.
Are you now biting said bullet or using oil?
We've been addicted to cheap fuel for way too long and now that the end is here for cheap fuel, people such has yourself think that drilling for more oil is going to solve our problems. Sorry to tell you but it's not going to solve anything, only prolong the inevitable, squeeze ever last cent out of our pockets possible, and leave our economy in a complete and utter shambles.

Drill not to solve our problems, but to give us time to develop the best alternative. Why send our money to Canada/Mexico/Russia and the rest. If we used more nukes, more wind, more sun, more coal as feasable the oil demand would be less.
Click to expand...
 
Ironmen77 said:
The private sector sure makes them better, now. Are you now biting said bullet or using oil?
Click to expand...


Actually, my Senior Design research project was on utilizing the waste streams from biodiesel manufacturing to generate electricity. My team and I have won multiple awards, been flown to Washington D.C., and have been published in University of California at Riverside's Undergraduate research Journal. And my team mates and I are receiving a patent for our process. :)

And it was all paid for by the US EPA. In anther words the government.

So I would like to think that I'm part of the future solution and not 'just' another consumer.

Care to get any snarkier? :D
 
Last edited:
Ironmen77

The problem now is that there's no incentive for the private sector to put any money into these alternative solutions. They keep preaching about it, but nothing gets done. Its going to take the government actually getting out there and taking the lead on it, getting it started, before it actually gets moving. Just like they had to do with all the other things Brady mentioned...

I'm kinda in the middle here, while I do agree we should be using our own oil WHILE DEVELOPING MORE ALTERNATIVES, we do need to get moving on the alternative train now. They all need a kick in the ass to get this moving ASAP.

Oh and by the way...private sector makes better nuke plants now eh? I guess that's why they havent built one in this country in the past 32 years huh?
 
Last edited:
Weasel said:
Wiki doesn't mention anything amount using water in the process?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_process
Click to expand...

The process actually involves pushing high temp steam over a bed of coal, thats how it extracts it, then the water is removed and reused again. The coal is on a always moving conveyer that goes into more or less a steam furnace kinda like the pizza oven in a Pizza Hut :D
Once you have the initial tanks of water it's reused again and again after cleaning. The governor of Montana said '$55-65 a barrel of ready to burn FUEL not oil' thats seems good enough for me, remember there is 42 gallons in a barrel, thats 42 gallons of FUEL whether it's diesel, gas or kerosene.
I've been doing a lot of reading on the process wondering if a 'home brewing' setup would be possible but actually finding out how the nuts and bolts works seems to being kept close to the vest. Some web sites that had the information are no longer up. All I have been able to find are generalities, not the nuts and bolts.
 
As for small nuke plants, the Navy could turn them out pretty quick just using existing plants from subs or carriers. They have a fuel life of 20 years, are standardized and small, look at a fast attack sub and divide the sub into tenths, the generating plant takes up about 3/10's and that includes the SSTGs [turbine generators]. The reactor room itself is only about 15 of my steps from front water tight door to back water tight door on the upper level and less than 36 feet in diameter. Just make it modular so the reactor itself can be disconnected and loaded on a truck enclosed for when it needs to be recored in 20 years. The problem with civilian reactors is every engineer and architect wants to 'improve' it [read get his chops on he did something different that made it cost 3x's as much and take 4 times longer to build].
 
RichP said:
As for small nuke plants, the Navy could turn them out pretty quick just using existing plants from subs or carriers. They have a fuel life of 20 years, are standardized and small, look at a fast attack sub and divide the sub into tenths, the generating plant takes up about 3/10's and that includes the SSTGs [turbine generators]. The reactor room itself is only about 15 of my steps from front water tight door to back water tight door on the upper level and less than 36 feet in diameter. Just make it modular so the reactor itself can be disconnected and loaded on a truck enclosed for when it needs to be recored in 20 years. The problem with civilian reactors is every engineer and architect wants to 'improve' it [read get his chops on he did something different that made it cost 3x's as much and take 4 times longer to build].
Click to expand...

How much power can a pint sized nuclear generator make? About enough to supply a neighborhood or one factory?
 
Last edited:
Ray H said:
How much power can a pint sized nuclear generator make? About enough to supply a neighborhood or one factory?
Click to expand...
Hmm, our reactor powered 4 55,000KW westinghouse steam generators, normally we only ran two at a time till it came time to spare off, then we'd spin up the other two for a few hours and do the spin down of the first two. The tea pot generally only ran at around 25%. I don't ever remember seeing all the rods all the way out.
 
Im not sure I want a nuclear reactor sitting on every other street corner. Scratch that, Im positive I dont.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

lobsterdmb
Murkowski aims to strip roadless protection on 17M acres
Replies
0
Views
340
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
Push to Allow All-Terrain Vehicles on Public Roads Hits Speed Bumps
Replies
1
Views
1K
WB9YZU
W
lobsterdmb
Will budget blueprints seek to dispose of federal estate?
Replies
0
Views
240
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
House to take up bill requiring NEPA reviews for designations
Replies
0
Views
211
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
Circuit court judges appear sympathetic to roadless rule challenge
Replies
0
Views
193
lobsterdmb
lobsterdmb
Back
Top