More Diesel Options.

[CRASH]

Wonder if us poor saps in California will get these?

Chrysler to offer full-size diesel SUV in US
Thu Jun 1, 2006 11:30 AM ET
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By Kevin Krolicki

DETROIT (Reuters) - Chrysler Group on Thursday said it would offer a diesel version of its Jeep Grand Cherokee early next year, the first full-size SUV for sale in the United States with a more fuel-efficient diesel engine.

Chrysler, a unit of DaimlerChrysler AG (DCXGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), said the turbo diesel engine for the Grand Cherokee would be supplied by Mercedes-Benz, its luxury car brand, and built in Berlin.

Diesel vehicles represent more than 60 percent of Chrysler sales in Western Europe, but a new generation of diesel engines has yet to catch on in the United States despite improved fuel economy compared with traditional gasoline engines.

Chrysler said the 3.0-liter diesel engine in the Grand Cherokee would be up to 30 percent more fuel efficient than a gasoline equivalent.

Diesel engines perform more efficiently than gas engines in part because the fuel mix is more tightly compressed before combustion. But the heavy carbon content of diesel remains a concern for environmentalists.

The new Cherokee model, which will go on sale in the first quarter of 2007, will also run on B5, a blend of 5-percent biodiesel and 95-percent regular diesel.

Honda Motor Co.(7267.T: Quote, Profile, Research) announced last month that it would begin selling a new-generation of diesel cars in North America within the next three years, joining Chrysler and Volkswagen AG (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) in backing the gas alternative.

With consumer surveys suggesting more car buyers are considering gas alternatives, Chrysler is betting heavily on diesel, which many analysts see as an attractive option to replace the big engines in trucks and SUVs.

Some diesel vehicles are eligible for the same U.S. tax breaks that apply to hybrid electric vehicles, and President George W. Bush has pointed to diesel technology as a way to break what he has called the U.S. "addiction to oil."

 

[DaJudge]

Interesting! I wonder if it will be as rough as the one in the Liberty?

If that quote from Bush is accurate.....Hmmmm! I was under the impression that Diesel was made from oil. How does that help us break our addiction to oil?

Glen

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Interesting! I wonder if it will be as rough as the one in the Liberty?

If that quote from Bush is accurate.....Hmmmm! I was under the impression that Diesel was made from oil. How does that help us break our addiction to oil?

Glen

First, not all diesel is made from oil - Biodiesel can be made from many basestocks: soybeans, rapeseed, chicken waste, algae, waste fryer oil, and more. The more biodiesel we make, the less petro diesel we need.

Second, diesels are generally 30-40% more efficient - they can do the same work as a gasser on less fuel volume.

Example: I'm doing about 650 miles per tank on the daily commute with my Jetta TDI (automatic trans). That works out to about 14-15 gallons of diesel fuel (since I get about 43-44 mpg). Were I driving the 2.0 gasser version of the Jetta (same model year, also with automatic trans), I'd be getting about 28mpg, which means I'd be using in the neighborhood of 23-24 gallons of gasoline for that same 650 miles.

To keep the math simple, let's assume that a barrel of crude can be refined into either gasoline or diesel with equal yield. Let's also assume that you have a fleet of ten gasoline cars that get 30mpg each. If we were to pick a number for the crude-fuel yield, you could calculate how many miles you could drive those ten cars on one barrel's worth of crude.

Now, take those cars and swap in a diesel powertrain. Given that diesel is 30% or so more efficient, your 30 MPG now rises to 40 MPG - using the same crude-fuel yield, how far can you drive those ten cars now?

Does that help?

Rob

 

[rightseatsis]

I read that the Jeep Commander will be out with the diesel engine also. Supposedly sometime in 2007. Don't know if it will be available to us in California.

 

[IXNAYXJ]

The U.S. is hugely behind the rest of the world in diesel technology and acceptence, something I hope will change soon. In Europe, a very large percentage of cars, and even full-size luxury cars (i.e. 7-series BMW, S-class MBZ, Audi A8 etc) are diesel. Nobody in this country would touch one because most equate diesels with big, stinky, dirty loud truck engines, or the gastly GM diesels passenger car disasters of the '80s.

Drive a new MBZ E320 CDi and that stigma will be erased! They get 30+ mpg, are significantly faster than the gas E320 and are almost silent in operation.

Audi is running a diesel race car at Le Mans this year, and it looks to be untouchable by the competetion. Hopefully this will help us see the light.

Who else thinks it would be fawking cool to see NASCAR diesels?

-----Matt-----

 

[casm]

In Europe, a very large percentage of cars, and even full-size luxury cars (i.e. 7-series BMW, S-class MBZ, Audi A8 etc) are diesel.

You're right on that. Before I lived here, I owned a number of diesel vehicles - some were passenger cars, some were utilitarian. But there're a couple of other reasons for Europe's wider adoption of diesels:

Nobody in this country would touch one because most equate diesels with big, stinky, dirty loud truck engines, or the gastly GM diesels passenger car disasters of the '80s.

Correct. Most people's perception of diesels here comes from the bus they're stuck behind in traffic (and I have to agree - I don't appreciate the hit of soot either) since that's the one visual and olfactory reminder they have of how diesels were 25 years ago. But getting back to why diesels have been more popular in Europe:

- Diesel's typically cheaper than gas in most countries.

- For commercial vehicle classification, there may be a requirement to run a vehicle equipped with a diesel. Understand that 'commercial vehicle' in this context may mean anything with no rear side windows and/or back seat *plus* a diesel engine - so a VW Golf could qualify if appropriately-modified; for an example of what Cherokees that fall into this category look like, see this thread. This means lower road tax (important in countries that tax based on engine capacity) and the ability to reclaim fuel costs against taxes.

Drive a new MBZ E320 CDi and that stigma will be erased! They get 30+ mpg, are significantly faster than the gas E320 and are almost silent in operation.

If you want an even bigger shock, drive one of the new HDi-equipped Peugeot 407s. It's damned near impossible to tell that car apart from its gas counterpart, except that it gets 30% better mileage and runs cleaner. The Benz is good on power, but not as clean.

Who else thinks it would be fawking cool to see NASCAR diesels?

I could care less about NASCAR - I'd just like to see one in my driveway

BTW, I posted a thread about this a while back, but if you want to see a really cool approach to how to make an ultra-efficient but long-term usable (i.e., not a hybrid) vehicle, check out the Loremo. Light, low rolling resistance, and good aerodynamics plus a 50bhp turbodiesel add up to 0-60 in 9 seconds and 126mpg. That's good enough for freeway work and a far more intelligent approach to fuel economy than just about anything we've seen so far that might actually make it to market.

 

[8Mud]

I just drove a buddies Nissan diesel, crew cab pick up. I was impressed, 177 horses, it moves right along. We were towing a 2 and a half ton trailer (probably a little over gross) and I hardly knew it was back there, most of the trip. The hills can require a little more shifting than with a gas motor, the torque band is noticeably narrower in many deisels. We averaged right at 20 miles to the gallon, pulling the loaded trailer.
About that article specifying diesels made in Berlin. Like everybody else, the Germans are buying Korean Diesels (Hyundi) doing some of the assembly in Germany and stamping "made in Germany" on them. Schools still out, about how they hold up, but they are putting them in Mercedes delivery trucks and cars.
The VW five cylinder diesel has a realy good reputation. Renault has a history of head problems with their small deisel motors, but I'm sure they are addressing that problem vigourously.
I really wonder why Jeep never put a good common rail diesel in a YJ or XJ, a strong well bulit diesel motor is actually fairly ideal for off road use, where torque can be more usefull than RPM's.
The old five cylinder Mercedes diesel was famous for doing millions of miles before a rebuild was necessary. The Taxi fleets all used them for many years, over here.

 

[IXNAYXJ]

If you want an even bigger shock, drive one of the new HDi-equipped Peugeot 407s. It's damned near impossible to tell that car apart from its gas counterpart, except that it gets 30% better mileage and runs cleaner. The Benz is good on power, but not as clean.

I only mentioned the Benz becuase it's the only awe inspiring diesel car you can buy in this country. Sure the VW's are nice, but they pale in comparison to the MBZ's power and refinement.

I was first sold on the idea of a diesel passenger car when I was living in Germany. Doing 240 kph in a 3-series diesel on the Autobahn (and getting up to speed REALLY fast) sold me. The new 5-series diesel (I want to say a 3.0 liter) is supposed to be astounding.

I think the first example of a diesel really dominating in motorsports was the 323d that won the 24-stunde Nurburgring race a few years back...opened a lot of eyes!

-----Matt-----

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Audi is running a diesel race car at Le Mans this year, and it looks to be untouchable by the competetion.

If the way the R10 performed at Sebring is anything to judge by, the gassers won't stand a chance.

Rob

 

[Sarge]

The old five cylinder Mercedes diesel was famous for doing millions of miles before a rebuild was necessary. The Taxi fleets all used them for many years, over here.

No clue if it's the same motor but my Sprinter has a 2.7L 5 cylinder turbo diesel in it with 273K miles on it and runs like it was new. Acceleration is impressive for a 16 foot long, 8.5 foot tall van with a 8550 gross vehicle weight. Hauls me and all my plumbing/sewer gear all over the place and manages a nice steady 23 mpg. Pretty darn quiet and not stinky.

Sarge