Lighters banned on airlines

[BruteXJ]

A few years ago I traveled around alot, field service, carried a techtronix portable O scope. Was going thru atlanta security after doing a local service call and when they asked me 'whats that' with me replying 'oscilloscope' several times I finally just em it was a tri-corder and they let me through...'beam me up scotty'.... Never even gave my used ignitor that I used for a keychain a second look... Ignitor is used to light fuse or detonate other initiators, looks like a short fat cigar, OD Green with a pull ring on one end and a shotgun primer on the other, fuse goes in the end by the primer, pull the ring back and a spring loaded firing pin slips loose and pops the primer...

I've seen the cause of this problem, and the least of the possible consequences in action. TSA agents are given a vague description of what could constitute an IED, or a "combined use" weapon (ie items combined to make a weapon). A few bad examples are given to the supervisors, who relate them poorly to the agents. I argued for 20 minutes with one of their supervisors (to no avail) because he had turned away one of my passengers (who worked for a machine parts company) because he was travelling with a box of springs and bearings.

One day when I wandered over to the checkpoint to speak with a friend of mine working the X-ray, I glanced up at the monitor and must have gasped as I took a step back. The screen clearly showed the image of an Uzi inside a woman's large handbag. He laughed and informed me that the antenna on top of the X-ray is how their bosses, or their computers, randomly superimpose images of "prohibited items" on the actual images of people's luggage being screened. They press a special button when they spot one of these "test" items. If they're correct, the false image goes away.

All of it is in reality a farce, but it keeps the ignorant happy. No one would actually try to sneak an Uzi through the airport, and no metal detector would pick up on a razor-sharp ceramic knife. I place the majority of my trust in explosive detection, and wish it were more widely used on hand-carried luggage.

 

[8Mud]

All of it is in reality a farce, but it keeps the ignorant happy. No one would actually try to sneak an Uzi through the airport, and no metal detector would pick up on a razor-sharp ceramic knife. I place the majority of my trust in explosive detection, and wish it were more widely used on hand-carried luggage.

One of the prime ingrediants for C-4, is used for everything from the plastic(moisture resistant) coatings on paper, to sneaker soles.
IMO the only real deterant is overwhelming retaliation. Don´t really think they are gonna run out of bombs, but we can sure try and make bombers an endangered species.

 

[BruteXJ]

Uhm, yes....that would be the "plastic" part.

Although I am by no means impressed by the explosives-detection equipment of the TSA, it is slightly more sophisticated than that.

 

[8Mud]

Uhm, yes....that would be the "plastic" part.

If I understood my reaseach correctly (I´m not a chemist), RDX or MDX or Cyclonate (sp?) is used in many industrial applications (treating paper products and as plasticizer for rubber substitutes), as well as propellant for cannon rounds and an explosive. If they developed a machine to test for it, it would probably, start the bells ringing, everytime someone with a Mc Donalds paper cup, or Reeboks, walked past the machine.

 

[8Mud]

.... Never even gave my used ignitor that I used for a keychain a second look... Ignitor is used to light fuse or detonate other initiators, looks like a short fat cigar, OD Green with a pull ring on one end and a shotgun primer on the other, fuse goes in the end by the primer, pull the ring back and a spring loaded firing pin slips loose and pops the primer...

I´m not gonna go into specifics, don´t want to let the bag out of the cat. But the pieces and the chemsitry are really old. It all starts with Nitre, through mercury fulminate to, to the newer plastics. Many of the same molecules that set off the machine, are found as yellow stains in your underwear. You´d about have to do a lobotomy on everyone who didn´t sleep through there chemistry class, to stop explosives from getting on an airplane.

 

[5-90]

That's why I have trouble with so-called "security" - they just don't know enough to do the job properly. Granted, I'd not be worried about an obviously spent M1 pull fuze (got another one? I lost the one I had a few years back...) but it seems that some general education is in order for these yoyos to understand most of what they're seeing.

The whole deal with GEN Joe Foss, USMC (ret)(dec) still gets me going - I understand the idea of camouflaging a weapon for discreet carry or use, but a medal? Even if you don't recognise it as the MoH, you should still realise that it's SOME sort of military decoration - besides, anyone who's seen "Forrest Gump" has a pretty good idea when the MoH looks like. In all honesty, if I'd been there, I'd probably have carried his bags right onto the AC for him!

These people are just a "show and tell" sort of security that doesn't get anything done. Israel allows their pilots to carry and (probably, it's been a while) don't harrass their passengers, and El Al has had precisely ZERO hijackings in the entire time they've operated.

Besides, if the government were truly concerned for the safety of her citizens, we'd all be allowed to deal with threats on our own, and with the means of our choosing.

As far as airline carry, if I'm reading someone else's post correctly, sabot rounds are precisely what you DON'T want for shooting inside an AC. The Glaser Safety Slug, however, was designed with precisely that arena in mind. What's the difference?

A "sabot" - literally, "shoe" (from French, as I recall) is a sort of "shim" that allows one to load a bullet into a round for a calibre larger than the bullet itself - for instance, a .224 into a .308. These got their name from originally being made out of wood, reminiscent of Dutch "klompen" (literally, "wooden shoe.") Sabot are used as a means of launching a small projectile at greater velocity, or without deformation.

A Glaser Safety Slug is a plastic capsule with a gilding metal jacket, and the capsule is filled with a light oil carrier and either #6 or #12 birdshot. It will disintegrate on pretty much anything it hits, and is sudden death on soft tissues. It is highly unlikely that it will penetrate with a glancing hit on drywall (angle of incidence 20* from normal or more) and something like 85% likely to NOT penetrate metal skins. It won't do much against soft armour, but that's what the "Mozambique Drill" is for (two rapid shots to centre mass, aimed shot to the head as required.)

However, I do think that anyone who intends to carry onboard an aircraft had damn well better be able to shoot a minimum of 100-5X on the line, and at least 80-0X when stressed or tired. A course in "shoot/don't shoot" targets is also a spanking good idea - anytime you might be somewhere crowded, you'd better be able to identify your target, and do it quickly. Apart from that, I think anyone who is willing to develop the necessary skill should be allowed to carry on AC, which allows the pilots to concentrate on maintaining control of the AC.

It seems to me that everytime they revamp their "security," I end up feeling less secure. Perhaps I should start a colony offworld...

5-90

A few years ago I traveled around alot, field service, carried a techtronix portable O scope. Was going thru atlanta security after doing a local service call and when they asked me 'whats that' with me replying 'oscilloscope' several times I finally just em it was a tri-corder and they let me through...'beam me up scotty'.... Never even gave my used ignitor that I used for a keychain a second look... Ignitor is used to light fuse or detonate other initiators, looks like a short fat cigar, OD Green with a pull ring on one end and a shotgun primer on the other, fuse goes in the end by the primer, pull the ring back and a spring loaded firing pin slips loose and pops the primer...

 

[OT]

Here, have a buck Thing is, there's overblown security and then there's overblown security. Do we have one single shred of evidence (no matter how tenuous) to show that the TSA are at all effective in preventing terrorism?
No, because you're still getting a hand rammed up your a**.

Absolutely there's evidence. Notice any hijackings or explosions in midair or planes flying into buildings?
The question should be, is there any evidence that shows it's not working?

Your ball.

 

[Boatwrench]

In 1916, in response to the sinking of the HMS Titantic, the US Coast Guard started the International Ice Patrol to track icebergs in the north western Atlantic. This responsibility continues to this very day, using not only ships but aircraft and radio transponders & sono bouys. A ship hasn't sunk from striking an iceberg since. See it works...just like the TSAs security has prevented planes from being hi-jacked.

If I was more computer saavy, I would post a photo of the MOH, yes in a very preverted way it could be used as a weapon of opportunity, but so could my seat cushion and I still have that on the flight.


I do agree with the assessment made early that security is just to make a show and the folks riding the desks get upset when a grassroots, ground floor suggestion is made.

Tom