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Forced Induction- Articles, Info, Heat

CobraMarty

NAXJA Forum User
Superchargers/Turbochargers/Intercooling/Detonation/Heat
There seems to be a fair amount of misinformation, misconceptions, and misunderstanding about this topic.
You don't have to agree with what I say or do, hell you don't even have to like me, but these articles do have some useful information.

Here are some articles of interest.

Superchargers in general:
http://www.superchargersonline.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=13
http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/36-airflow---the-secret-to-making-power
http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/22-cool-air-equals-power
http://magnacharger.wordpress.com/2...d-know-about-supercharging-a-comparison-test/
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0802_turp_supercharger_tech/viewall.html

Intercooling:
http://www.lextreme.com/icvsnic.htm
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0906_water_methanol_injection/viewall.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=937176
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_1101_water_methanol_injection/viewall.html

Downloads:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=24&ved=0CG8QFjADOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fkennebell.net%2FKBWebsite%2FCommon%2Fpdfs%2FAirTemperatureTesting.pdf&ei=Ke4HUJXXLYWo8QT6iY2-BA&usg=AFQjCNGn87r3hncrcZbGTetjW3fHSEnsIg
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...iY2-BA&usg=AFQjCNHh_YNxtk14x506IGV7fZLerMhFgw
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mIW7BA&usg=AFQjCNGWWTPONQsCbODCEeA0VeHlUJNFLg
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zb3JBQ&usg=AFQjCNGmwc9FwVG3FlvrhF4wji4iwIJvlg
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zb3JBQ&usg=AFQjCNFoHM3sFbq_z3UcTRK0vB6Ne19YtA

Other interesting articles:
http://www.timskelton.com/valkyrie/tech/supercharger.htm
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0411ch_centrifugal_supercharger/index.html
 
Your research paper is due Friday by 12:00 p.m.

Minimum of 1 post, no longer than 100 characters summarizing all of the above research into one simple, easy to understand post that encompasses everything anyone ever needed to know about superchargers.

I don't scale my grades.

Good luck.
 
Superchargers/Turbochargers/Intercooling/Detonation/Heat
There seems to be a fair amount of misinformation, misconceptions, and misunderstanding about this topic.
You don't have to agree with what I say or do, hell you don't even have to like me, but these articles do have some useful information.


Too bad you didn't say anything. All you did was post your google search list. This thread is as useless as my post in it.
 
It is good to see some are now interested in intercooling and water/methanol/washer fluid injection and the problem of increased charge temperatures with supercharging and turbocharging.

Let's Talk Intercoolers! ************************************

An intercooler (sometimes referred to as an aftercooler) is designed to remove heat from the compressed air coming from the supecharger (or turbo) before it enters the engine's induction system. An intercooler works just lie a radiator - air is cooled by fins, bars, louvres, and plates inside the intercooler that are cooler than the compressed air coming from the supercharger. The reduction in air temperature increases the density of the air (more air molecules per cupic foot), which consequently increases your engine's ability to make more horsepower and torque. The decreased air temperature allows you to run more boost on a given octane of fuel before detonation occurs..
What's up with the terms?
The term 'intercooler' comes from days when they were first used on twin turbo aircraft engines. With two turbos, the air charge would get VERY hot - it was heated by the first turbo, then heated again by the second turbo. To combat this double temperature rise they placed a heat exchanger in between the two turbos and called it an "intercooler" because of its location in between two turbos. When this same kind of heat exchanger is used on a single turbo or supercharger, it is located after the supercharger, and should technically be called an "aftercooler" because of its location after the single turbo or supercharger. These terms didn't seem to stick, though. The term 'intercooler' caught on and became almost universal for all heat exchangers regardless of their position. The term 'aftercooler' became synonymous with air-to-water coolers because this is the term Vortech uses to describe their coolers, which are water cooled. So while technically incorrect, we will still use the popular terms 'intercooler' to mean any air-cooled charge cooler and 'aftercooler' to mean any water-cooled charge cooler.
Why Intercool?
There are several important benefits to intercooling that have resulted in their increased popularity in recent years. The most significant advantage is that intercooling increases the detonation threshold because of the cooler air charge, meaning you can run more ignition advance for higher performance, or run lower octane fuel before experiencing detonation. This makes intercoolers very desirable for those looking to get the most out of their street vehicles on pump gasoline. The cooler air also allows your engine to run slightly cooler, reducing the chances of overheating. Intercoolers also enable your engine to produce more horsepower because of the denser air charge being delivered to the engine's combustion chamber.
Don't assume, however, that you can simply bolt an intercooler on to your supercharged engine and expect power gains with no other changes to the system. Intercoolers do create some internal drag causing a slight reduction in boost, and can also cause the engine to run lean (knock) due to the denser air charge. These problems are easily corrected and should not cause concern, however they cannot be ignored. Boost pressure can be brought back up (actually you'll probably want to run substantially more boost than you did with a non-intercooled application) using a smaller supercharger pulley. The smaller supercharger pulley will spin the supercharger faster and increase its output. Make sure your supercharger is designed to handle these higher boost levels. Correcting the air/fuel ratio to compensate for the denser air charge can be done with larger fuel injectors, recalibrated FMU, larger fuel pump, adjusting the mass air meter, etc.
Intercoolers... Aftercoolers... What's the difference?
In order for an intercooler to effectively cool the air that passes through it, the intercooler itself must be cooled by some external means. Most intercoolers are cooled just like your engine's radiator - air flows over the outside of the intercooler's fins, which in turn cool the air inside the intercooler - hence the name Air to Air Intercooler. Some intercoolers, however, are cooled by water instead of air, in which case they are generally called aftercoolers, or Air to Water Intercoolers. The benefit to an aftercooler is that air passing through it can be cooled more than in a traditional air/air intercooler if very cold water and ice are used to cool the intercooler - in fact, some aftercoolers chill the air to below ambient air temperatures even after it has been compressed by the supercharger. The reason aftercoolers are more effective in cooling the air charge is because water is a much better conductor of heat than air - in fact water conducts 4 times as much heat as air! The obvious drawback is that with time, the water will heat up to the temperature of the air passing through it, and its ability to cool incoming air goes away. Some aftercoolers, however, use a small radiator to cool the water that runs through the system, making them ideal for street use as well as racing. For drag racing applications aftercoolers packed with ice work very well because they only need to work for around ten seconds or so (hopefully) before you shut down and head to the victory podium. For milder racing and street applications air/air intercoolers or aftercoolers with radiators are more practical as their ability to cool incoming air is not reduced with time.
When is it right to intercool?
Obviously, intercoolers only work with supercharged or turbocharged vehicles where there is a substantial difference in temperature between the air entering the engine and the cooling medium (the intercooler). Because superchargers heat up the air significantly as they compress it, it is possible for there to be a very large temperature difference between the intercooler (ambient air temperature - 80F degrees or so) and the compressed air (200F - 350F degrees). Superchargers with higher boost will create a hotter discharge, so as you increase your boost, the effects of the intercooler become more and more noticeable. In general we would not recommend intercoolers on supercharged engines with less than 8-9psi of boost, as the benefits will not be substantial. Essentially, run an intercooler when only when you running peak boost (i.e. any more boost would cause detonation) for the octane of fuel you use. Intercoolers work well in both warm and cool climates and work exceptionally well on marine applications because of the easy access to cold water.
Don't intercoolers restrict the flow of air into the engine?
Yes. Any time there is an obstacle in the way of the air flowing into the engine (like an intercooler fin or louvre), a pressure loss will result. Today's intercoolers are very effective in minimizing this pressure loss so that the benefits obtained by cooling the discharge temperature normally outweigh the 1-2psi (approximate) loss in air pressure, which can be regained by running a smaller pulley and increasing the output of the supercharger.
The final word!
So while intercoolers work well on higher output superchargers, they are not recommended for lower boost level kits, like an average 6psi street kit. If you're looking for exceptional performance from your engine, consider adding an intercooler to your engine, or consider purchasing a supercharger kit that comes with an intercooler. Most ATI ProCharger systems include intercoolers and still remain very reasonably priced. Paxton has also recently introduced several intercoolers to fit their more popular supercharger systems, while Vortech already includes intercoolers with several kits. Good luck with your intercooling endeavors, wherever they may take you!



Cool Air Equals Power ************************************

By C.J. Baker

The Banks Super Scoop, as shown on this Ford V-10 gasoline engine, provides both cool air and a mild ram-air affect. The Super Scoop also incorporates a water drain to separate any rainwater from the airflow entering the scoop.
Most people know that engines make more power when the inlet air is cooler. Let's take a look at why this is true - at least in most applications. We'll also tell you right up front that this article might leave you with more questions than answers. Then again, you might be the one that provides the additional answers and takes the world to the next generation of internal combustion engines.
To understand what goes on during both the intake cycle and the power cycle when inlet air temperature is reduced, we need to consider both normally-aspirated and supercharged gasoline engines, as well as turbocharged diesels. We'll also limit this discussion to four-cycle engines.
Before we go any further, let's define a couple of terms. For this article, we'll say that supercharging is anything that increases the amount of oxygen available in the cylinder to support combustion of fuel above what could be expected from cylinder filling due to atmospheric pressure only. We'll assume atmospheric pressure at sea level to be 14.7 PSI and that "normal" air contains approximately 21 percent oxygen. We'll also exclude oxygen-bearing fuels, such as nitromethane, as a form of supercharging. This means that any form of mechanical compressor that pumps more air into an engine, such a belt- or gear-driven "supercharger", or an exhaust- or turbine-driven "turbocharger" is included, as well as the injection of nitrous oxide, or even oxygen itself.
Gale Banks has a favorite saying, "It's all about airflow." Airflow helps engines make power in many ways, as explained in other articles on this site, but it is also true that the more air you can flow through an engine, the more oxygen that will be available for burning fuel. More oxygen means more fuel can be burned, and that means more power. Maybe his saying should be refined for this article to be "It's all about oxygen content." This is most evident when dealing with an ordinary normally-aspirated gasoline engine. Many hot rodding tricks relate to getting more air(read oxygen) into the cylinder. Whether it's by installing a less restrictive fuel injection system or carburetor, a freer flowing intake manifold, porting the cylinder head(s), increasing camshaft lift or duration, the purpose is still the same - get more oxygen into the cylinder. Now in all fairness, the hot rodder is looking at getting maximum oxygen into the cylinder at wide open throttle for peak power (to beat the other guy). This is partly why nitrous oxide (an oxygen-rich gas) injection is so effective. Nitrous oxide effectively increases the percentage of oxygen in the working fluid (which becomes a mixture of air, nitrous oxide, and fuel) above the 21 percent oxygen in air alone. That means more fuel can be mixed into the working fluid too for greater combustion heat to expand the working fluid and increase pressure in the cylinder. Additionally, when the compressed nitrous oxide, which is stored in its pressurized container as a liquid, is injected, it depressurizes and changes state from a liquid to gas, cooling the working fluid for an accompanying density increase. Of course, it would take an incredible amount of nitrous oxide to be able to use it at all times, so as you would expect, nitrous oxide injection is only used on demand at wide open throttle. But what if we could get more oxygen into the engine at all throttle positions all the time? Then what happens?
In another article on this site, "Airflow - the Secret to Making Power", we explain that the air throttle on a gasoline engine controls the density of the intake charge that enters the cylinder. We also explain how superchargers and turbochargers increase the density under boost conditions. In some regards, we can look at density as the amount of oxygen crammed into a given volume of air (the working fluid). Increased density means the molecules in the air are closer together in the same space - more air mass (and oxygen) in the same space. Here's where things can get a little muddy. We have to consider increased air density in both unconfined and confined spaces. Let's look at an unconfined space, such as the atmosphere, because that's the world of the normally-aspirated engine. Two things affect air density in the atmosphere - pressure and temperature. As atmospheric pressure goes up, indicated by higher barometric pressure on a barometer, the density increases if the temperature stays the same. In other words, at any given temperature, if the barometric pressure rises, so does the air density. By the same token, as temperature goes down, the density increases if the atmospheric pressure stays the same. Atmospheric air density is very important to normally aspirated engines. Obviously, you can't do much to increase the atmospheric air pressure in regard to a normally-aspirated engine, but you can enhance it slightly with some form of ram air taken either from the front of the vehicle or from a dynamically high pressure area, such as the base of the windshield. More importantly, in most cases you can do something about the temperature of the inlet air. The object is to get the coolest air possible to the engine's intake system. Many engines induct air that has passed through the radiator or over other warm areas of the engine, significantly heating the air and reducing its density. By relocating the air intakes to duct outside air that hasn't been warmed into the engine, density is significantly increased. For example, it is not uncommon for air to increase up to 50º F. passing through the radiator and air conditioning condenser on a late model vehicle. The general rule of thumb is that for every 10º of temperature drop, the density (and oxygen content) increases 1 percent. It's actually more like 1.8 percent. Similarly, power increases by an equal amount. So, in this example, if you can intake air that hasn't been heated, you can gain as much as 5 to 9 percent more power. Happily, the best places to collect cool air are the same places that work for ram air, so you can get the density gains from both pressure and temperature using the same intake ducting.
To get back to our earlier question of what happens when we have cooler, or higher density, air at all throttle positions, it means that the engine is capable of producing given amounts of power at lesser throttle openings. This generally equates to better fuel economy. It also means the engine has greater power potential for accelerating or climbing grades. Cooler intake air also suppresses detonation since the working fluid doesn't reach as high a temperature on the compression stroke - again, a plus for accelerating or climbing grades.
Both gasoline and diesel engines that use superchargers and turbochargers face their own unique problems with intake air temperature. Superchargers and turbochargers significantly heat the intake air as they compress it to create boost. The higher boost pressure increases the air density, but the increased temperature of the air can largely offset this density gain. In this case, we're talking about the affects of pressure and temperature in a confined space, the intake system. Consequently, it is desirable to cool the compressed air before it enters the engine. In most cases, especially where boost levels exceed 7 PSI, cooling the compressed air with a charge air cooler, often called an intercooler, increases the air density more than any density losses that occur due to the accompanying pressure drop due to cooling or flow restrictions through an intercooler. In other words, intercooling results in a net density increase for the air entering the cylinder.
Intercooling also provides other benefits. For supercharged or turbocharged gasoline engines, reducing the intake air temperature suppresses detonation, just as it does for normally-aspirated gasoline engines. For diesel engines, intercooling not only increases charge density, it also results in lower exhaust gas temperature. Excessive exhaust gas temperature, above 1300º cannot be sustained in a diesel without eventual engine and/or turbocharger failure. Lowering intake temperature results in an almost equal reduction in exhaust temperature. For example, the air exiting the turbocharger on the Banks Sidewinder pickup was approximately 500º F. under full power. Dual air-to-water marine intercoolers, connected to a reservoir of ice water, were then used to reduce the air temperature to 100º F. before it entered the engine. With the intercooling, exhaust temperatures remained manageable for the duration of the Bonneville World Speed Record runs. Without intercooling, the exhaust temps would have been in the 1800º-1900º F. range.
The final conclusion is that regardless of whether an engine is normally aspirated or supercharged, gas or diesel, the cooler the intake air, the better. Usually.
smokeys-patent-sm.jpg

Smokey Yunick's hot vapor engine is simple in concept and execution. Prototypes went to many major car companies, but they couldn't figure a way to get around Smokey's patents. Smokey also faced the "Not Invented Here" mind-set. Is this engine viable for mass production? Smokey though so. Read the patent and judge for yourself.
Now comes the really interesting part of this article that raises all the questions. Twenty years ago, the late, great racing mechanic and inventor Henry "Smokey" Yunick left the automotive engineers shaking their heads when he invented and patented his hot vapor engine. Based on the familiar four-cycle piston engine concept, instead of cooling the intake air to improve efficiency, he used coolant heat and exhaust waste heat to significantly warm the intake air. The purpose was to fully vaporize the fuel and to make the intake air expand in the intake system to generate positive pressure, like a supercharger. A small turbocharger was used as a "mixer" and as a check valve to prevent the expanding intake air from backflowing out of the intake system. With the heated, pressurized, homogenous mixture, the engine ran at air/fuel ratios considered impossibly lean, such as 22:1, on pump gasoline. The hot vapor engine made incredible power and was highly efficient, responsive, surprisingly emissions clean, and delivered fuel economy of 45-50 MPG in a compact car, and it did it all without computers, smog pumps or catalytic converters. Although initially denounced by the automotive world as a hoax, several prominent SAE engineers later published papers validating Smokey's theories and design. It was no hoax to Smokey. He considered it his greatest achievement. However, the automotive giants had their own designs for increasing fuel economy and controlling emissions, and Smokey's simple and cost-efficient engine package was ignored. Today, Smokey's designs are buried somewhere in the U.S. Patent Office (www.uspto.gov, patent numbers: 4,503,833; 4,592,329; 4,637,365; 4,862,859) awaiting someone to take this technology to the next level. So just when you think you know the rules of how things work, somebody comes along and breaks the rules. It's only fitting that it was Smokey Yunick.


Intercooled Vs. Non-Intercooler ***
There has been many debates between the issue of intercooling and non-intercooling. Here are some facts based on Corky Bell's book called Supercharged!. Here is some interesting information you should considered when you plan to get a forced induction system.
Before we start, here are some legends you should understand:
+ = Plus or Sum
- = Minus
x = Multiply
/ = Divide
Here are some formulas will be useful:
Desired Power = stock power x pressure ratio x density ratio x volumetric efficiencies ratio x drive power efficiency
icvsni1.gif
Volumetric Efficiencies = supercharger volumetric efficiencies / engine volumetric efficiencies
Pressure Ratio = desired power / existing power or
desired power / stock power x pressure ratio x density ratio x volumetric efficiencies ratio x drive power efficiency

Density Ratio = original absolute temperature / find absolute temperature
Root:
Non-Intercooled = 460degrees + 90 degrees / 460 degrees + 200 = .83
Intercooled = 460degrees + 90 degrees / 460 degrees + 107 = .97
Centrifugal:
Non-Intercooled = 460degrees + 90 degrees / 460 degrees + 170 = .87
Intercooled = 460degrees + 90 degrees / 460 degrees + 102 = .98





Density RatioNon-IntercooledIntercooledRoot Supercharger.83.97Centrifugal.87.98
Lets plug in some numbers and make it real. Now we will be using our first generation 1UZFE. A car is rated at 220 bhp and our desired bhp will be 300. Lets use these formulas and see how it will affect the outcome between intercooling and non-intercooling. The below table show amount of boost require to achieve 300 bhp










TypeNon-IntercooledIntercooledRoot10.1 psi6.3 psiCentrifugal7.2 psi4.7 psi
What the above table saying is that for a 220 bhp to make 300 bhp. It would take a 10.1 psi in a non-intercooled root style supercharger system to make 300 bhp in the same intake/chamber temperature as a 4.7 psi intercooled Centrifugal supercharger system. In another word, it will take a 10.1 psi from a root style supercharger to make the same power as a intercooled 4.7 psi from a Centrifugal Supercharger system.





Here is an database that I have complied using 250 bhp as our stock horsepower and comparing Root supercharger and Centrifugal along with intercooling. The boost require for a intercooler Centrifugal system to make 400 bhp would be around 6.6 psi vs. non-intercooled Root Style 12.52 psi.


Water/Methanol Injection *****************
The 50 Percent Solution

Water/Methanol Injection Isn't A New Idea, But Chemical Intercooling Has Gone High-Tech And Is The Hot Ticket For Power-Adder Applications.

By Paul Huizenga, Photography by Courtesy of the manufacturers, KJ Jones, Paul Huizenga






One of the keys to the effectiveness of new-school methanol/water injection is fine atomization via precisely machined nozzles and high working pressure. Smaller droplets have more surface area for a given volume of fluid and evaporate almost instantly in the hot intake airstream.

One of the keys to the effectiveness of new-school methanol/water injection is fine atomiz


We're sure you've heard the stories about how nitrous oxide was first pioneered on German fighter planes during World War II--the Focke-Wulf and Messerschmitt interceptors used nitrous in conjunction with superchargers to step up the power. But what a lot of people don't know is that they also injected a water/methanol mixture for the same reason. Adding a mix of water and methanol to the intake airstream does several useful things that add up to a major improvement in an engine's detonation threshold. Used alone or in conjunction with an intercooler, water/methanol injection allows more ignition timing, lowers intake air temperature, and provides an additional source of very high-octane fuel. The automakers have also experimented with water injection, most notably on the '62 Oldsmobile F-85 Turbo Jetfire, the Saab 99 Turbo S, and the prototypes for the legendary Buick turbo G-body cars.
Superchargers and nitrous are very popular now, but water/methanol injection, seemingly the simplest of all the wartime innovations, never quite caught on with hot rodders in the same way. At least not until today, when new control electronics have turned chemical intercooling into the hottest new trend in automotive performance.
Today, water/methanol injection is finally reaching the same level of development and acceptance as turbocharging and nitrous oxide, largely due to the huge improvements in safety and reliability made possible by electronic control. Hot rodders have been experimenting with home-brewed water injection systems for years, but John Romero of AEM points out that the commercial systems available today are a world apart. "It's almost unfortunate that it's so similar to the old water injection stuff because people may have experience with it and think that it wasn't that big of a deal," he laments.
His company's kits come with either a 1- or 5-gallon tank, which helps alleviate the "fill it or kill it" dilemma that can happen in applications running on the ragged extremes of boost where a loss of the water could lead to engine-murdering detonation. "We won't sell a kit with a tank that is too small because if you run out, you're done," Romero says. "It's silly to put a small tank on. We wouldn't sell a kit without a progressive control, not because we believe that progressive control is required, but because it lets us put the boost safe function on it. We do think it would be crazy to run any system without using whatever safety function that manufacturer provides."
Water/methanol injection has a history as long as blowers and turbos but is only now coming into its own.

Water/methanol injection has a history as long as blowers and turbos but is only now comin


Matt Snow, founder of Snow Performance, agrees wholeheartedly. "You've gotta have a safety device, and we have a system called Safe Injection. It senses flow going through the system, so if it goes too high or too low, it sends out a signal and you can trigger a different timing curve or go to a solenoid to open a blowoff valve on a supercharged system or a wastegate on a turbo. You can go on the ragged edge and still be safe."
Without a fail-safe system to reduce boost, add fuel, subtract timing, or all of the above should the water/methanol mix stop flowing, most of the benefits have to be traded away for the sake of safety. "By itself, a water/alcohol injection system doesn't really make any more horsepower for you," Romero says. "It will make a little bit, but it's certainly not worth it on its own. [It] is an enabler--it enables you to turn up the boost, which is something you couldn't do without the system. It's a real tough thing to advertise, saying, `buy this system and make no more horsepower.'"
While the colder, denser air created by water/methanol injection will lead to a few more ponies all by itself, the real payoff comes from the way it improves the performance of boosted applications. Per Snow, "Your air charge temperature is lower, so you're going to be less prone to detonate, you've got the octane from the methanol, and then you've got water in there too, which is slowing things down in the combustion chamber. The buffering effect isn't really understood by a lot of people. There's evidence that you're getting what the SAE literature refers to as `micro explosions' as the water/methanol mix flashes to vapor that helps break up the fuel droplets even further, giving a more homogenous charge in the combustion chamber."
Just like with a nitrous system, one method of controlling the delivery of the water and methanol mix is through the use of calibrated jets.

Just like with a nitrous system, one method of controlling the delivery of the water and m


Romero adds, "The colder temperatures allow you to run more aggressive ignition timing, or at the very least not retard the timing because you have hot intake air. At the same time, the antiknock properties of methanol also let you run more timing." Another factor in the equation is the small amount of additional fuel it brings to the party. Romero points out, "The amount of fuel you're adding isn't all that much. It may take you about a point richer in air/fuel ratio. If you're already running in the middle to upper 11s or low 12s and you're going to go from 12 pounds of boost to 18, ending up in the high 10s for the air/fuel ratio is fairly safe."
With full control using a stand-alone ECU, ignition and fuel maps can be custom-tailored to extract the full potential of water/methanol injection, but even a reflashed stock ECU typical of an aftermarket blower or turbo kit will be able to take advantage of the situation. "Most people don't do anything to the fuel or the ignition. That's not optimal, but that's how most people run it," Romero says. "If you have a non-programmable system, the factory computer is probably doing a darn good job of pulling timing when it sees any kind of boost, and certainly when it sees the temperatures. It goes the other way too, allowing more timing when it's cold. So it will take care of a lot of it by itself. Stand-alones that are properly tuned should have compensation for temperature as well, so when it sees colder intake air, it should start throwing timing at it."
Nozzle placement is important--everyone we talked to recommends installing them between the intercooler (if one is present) and the throttle body. AEM's John Romero says, "You don't want it before [the intercooler] because as soon as the air cools down it's going to fall out of suspension and you'll have liquid water and methanol in the intercooler."

Nozzle placement is important--everyone we talked to recommends installing them between th


Now that water/methanol injection has broken into the mainstream, we're beginning to see other applications beyond the typical "turn up the boost" scenario. Diesels, nitrous motors, and even old-school muscle cars are getting the 50 percent solution, with promising results. Snow Performance recently introduced its Water Fogger system, designed with help from nitrous legend Mike Thermos. Snow says, "With nitrous, you can trigger the water/methanol system off the same switch the nitrous is using and leave the timing in. We've had customers say that they have a 150-shot that's acting more like a 180 because now they don't have to back off as much timing."
Diesels are another fertile field for water/methanol injection, especially since the first thing many new truck owners do is plug in a programmer. "You're getting guys who are using diesels to tow race cars, and the effect on diesels is just huge as far as fuel economy and power," Snow says. "They always put a tune in--they buy an Edge or a Bully Dog [system] and they put it on `kill,' first thing. Five minutes, and you have a 100hp gain. But you go and try to tow with it, and the exhaust gas temperature goes through the roof and you have to back out because you'll melt aluminum. So you have a guy who can't use that power when he's towing, but if he puts water/meth on it, he gets another 70 hp, plus since we're cooling it down, he can use all the power he's already got."
Water/methanol injection can also help out the guy with the classic muscle car that doesn't get driven much, thanks to the cost of keeping it stoked with race gas. Snow says, "You've got a guy who's running high compression, and he has to run octane booster or a splash of race gas in the tank so he doesn't rattle. We have a new kit that has everything you need to run naturally aspirated and vary the injection based on vacuum and RPM. It has a carb plate that puts the nozzle right under the carburetor. Those guys are pretty spark-knock limited. Most of the time, you put this thing on and you can run full timing, and even without rejetting the carb, the power gain from that far outweighs the loss from being a little bit too rich."





Water/methanol injection has come a long way from its wartime roots and is finally peeking out of the long shadows cast by boost and nitrous. As with those technologies, there are pitfalls to avoid and limits to respect, but thanks to improvement in both the hardware and the way we tune, you can expect big things in the future.
  • Today's water/methanol injection systems are available as complete kits, engineered with safety and reliability in mind. Romero says, "Regardless of the system you end up with, whether you make it yourself or buy one of the many kits that are on the market, you have to make sure there's something in the system that tells your boost controller or ECU that it's working or that something's wrong. You don't want to ever just blindly assume the system is working, because that's a good way to burn the engine down."


  • Today's water/methanol injection systems are available as complete kits, engineered with s


    [*] A fluid level sensor is a must-have accessory, since your intentions to keep the tank topped off may be good, but hard to follow in practice.


    A fluid level sensor is a must-have accessory, since your intentions to keep the tank topp


    [*] The Safe Injection module from Snow Performance monitors fluid flow and sends a signal if it detects too little or too much. The output can trigger ignition retard, signal the ECU to switch to different fuel and spark maps, or open a blowoff valve or wastegate to limit boost.


    The Safe Injection module from Snow Performance monitors fluid flow and sends a signal if


  • AEM's controller has a built-in boost sensor and allows ramping in the delivery of the mix between a beginning boost level and a point where the flow is at 100 percent. Though it's the size of a deck of cards, it packs sophisticated error-detection capabilities and can protect the engine against low fluid, open and short circuits, and low or high system voltage by triggering an external boost relief device or signaling an ignition box to pull timing.


  • AEM's controller has a built-in boost sensor and allows ramping in the delivery of the mix


    [*] Snow Performance's Stage 3 system incorporates an electronic head unit that allows progressive injection control based on boost pressure, injector pulse width, or a variable mix of the two. Combined with interchangeable nozzles and variable pump pressure, it's possible to dial in the right injection curve for a Roots blower, a big single race turbo, or anything in between.


    Snow Performance's Stage 3 system incorporates an electronic head unit that allows progres


    [*] Naturally aspirated or blow-through carbureted applications can benefit from a kit from Snow that puts the injection nozzle in a spacer plate that sits directly below the carburetor. Snow's muscle car system applies a progressive flow of water and methanol based on RPM and manifold vacuum.


    Naturally aspirated or blow-through carbureted applications can benefit from a kit from Sn


  • Diesel engines can reap big benefits from methanol/water injection as well. By controlling exhaust gas temperatures, the system allows much more aggressive tunes while still maintaining the ability to tow. An added benefit is improved mileage. Matt Snow says, "You put in windshield washer fluid, which is a dollar a gallon, and if you've got an empty 3/4-ton diesel, you're looking at 1 to 3 miles per gallon improvement. If you're towing, it's more like three all the time. When diesel's $4 a gallon, you're effectively saving $15 to $18 per 35-gallon tank of diesel. The payback is huge on that."


  • Diesel engines can reap big benefits from methanol/water injection as well. By controlling


    [*]http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0906_water_methanol_injection/photo_12.html Though many drag racing sanctions don't allow anything to be injected into the intake in their boosted heads-up classes, for those that do, a water/methanol system is a great alternative to an air-to-water intercooler. "We've seen a 40-degree-C drop in intake air temperatures at 15 psi in a nonintercooled engine, and 30 degrees with an air-to-air intercooler," Snow says. A water/methanol injection system can even bring intake air down below the ambient outside temperature like an air-to-water intercooler system stuffed with ice, without as much weight or plumbing. For a competitor running in a True Street-style class that requires a road cruise before hitting the strip, water/methanol injection provides a perfect solution.


    Though many drag racing sanctions don't allow anything to be injected into the intake in t


    [*] Snow Performance and nitrous legend Mike Thermos (right, with Matt Snow on the left) have developed a system to pair water/methanol and


Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/...methanol_injection/viewall.html#ixzz24WqZFe00



Water/Methanol Injection FAQ ****************
Read if you are thinking of trying water/methanol injection... Cliff Note questions have been added at Post #175.... Please read those if you don't want to sit through all this. But if you just read the C/N then whats the point anyway. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=937176&page=7 Bottom of the page.

What is Water/Methanol Injection?

Water Injection or Water Methanol Injection, is a process by which a mixture or water and Methanol are injected into the fuel/air mixture on the way to the combustion chamber. Water/Methanol Injection provides "Chemical Intercooling" inside the cylinder. By injecting water and methanol in a finely atomized spray, the water is able to evaporate under the high temps of a firing cylinder, and when the water evaporates, it takes heat with it. The methanol also has a cooling and octane boosting effect as it burns.

How does water/methanol injection allow your engine to produce more power?

The production of more power by a water/meth injected engine is not a by-product of the water/meth mixture alone. You must tune for it to get the most out of it. The evaporative effects of the water/meth mixture, plus the octane boost, allows you to run more advanced timing, and boost, thus increasing power. Methanol having the octane boosting effect, you can adjust your AFR's with tuning, and be able to run the same AFR as a pump gas tune with less fuel added to the fuel map of your engine managment. When the system is spraying, methanol is making up for the fuel that gets taken away during the tuning process. You end up with about same 12.5:1 or so AFR with less pump gas added, you also increase knock resistance, and due to the octane boosting effect, you can add timing and boost to make more power safely.

What is Methanol?

Methanol is the simplest alcohol compound, comprised of one carbon atom, one oxygen atom and four hydrogen atoms (CH3OH). It is also referred to as wood alcohol, carbinol and methyl alcohol. It is poisonous, flammable and relatively volatile. It has no taste or color, but it does have a slight scent.

Methanol is used as a fuel and an antifreeze, and to make formaldehyde. It is also added to ethanol to make it unpalatable so that it avoids taxes on drinkable alcohol, as ethanol without a denaturant of some sort is consumable by humans. Methanol was first discovered in 1661, though it had been used without isolation by peoples as far back as the Egyptians in their embalming processes. The name comes from methy, meaning wine, and hyle, meaning trees.

Methanol is used as a fuel source by some, though its use is limited by its volatility. The main area in which one sees methanol being used is in many top-end racing engines. The vehicles in the Indy 500, for example, are all run on methanol. This methanol is usually produced using a fossil fuel as the synthesis gas, either natural gas or petroleum.

Many renewableenergy advocates see methanol as an ideal fuel source, with distinct advantages over hydrogen. When methanol is made from materials such as wood, it is often called bioalcohol. The theoretical use of methanol as a widespread fuel source has given rise to a theory describing what is known as the methanol economy.


In the methanol economy, the common fuel is methanol, with non-renewable fuels having a minority share or being entirely unused. George Olah, a winner of the Nobel Prize, is a strong advocate of this path. Advocates point out that in contrast to hydrogen, methanol is relatively cheap to produce, can be manufactured with little or no waste, is efficient to store and can be made from sources other than fossil fuels. Also, while conversion to a hydrogen economy would require major changes in infrastructure, methanol could be phased in relatively easily because of its interoperability with fossil fuels. One can mix methanol with gasoline to produce hybrid fuels while making the shift in economy.​

Unfortunately, methanol is very toxic and contains a number of hazards. It is less volatile than hydrogen, but also much heavier, which could allow contamination in the case of spills or tank leaks. A wide range of groups are constantly looking for new and innovative uses for methanol, and it seems apparent that it will have a role in the energy economy of the future. Whether that role is as the key player or a supporter to hydrogen or some other fuel source remains to be seen.​

Can you run just water injection without methanol?

Yes, but you will not be able to take advantage of the octane boosting properties of methanol, thus you will get cooling from the water, but no increase in octane. Without methanol, you may not make as much power, as it acts as a detonation inhibitor, and you may not be able to run a leaner AFR as you could with it.​

What supporting upgrades are required for water/methanol injection?

At minimum you should have some sort of engine management that can be tuned, I.E. able to adjust timing, boost, and fuel curves, to compensate for the octane boost, and cooling effects, and be able to take advantage of them to make power. Otherwise you can run water/meth injection on a stock car with tunable engine management. You do not have to have after-market intakes, exhausts, intercoolers, or strengthened internals. Although with more supporting mods that already increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the more power that can be had.​

Who makes Water/Methanol injection systems?

There are many manufactures of water/injection systems:​

These are some of the more popular and most inclusive kits for the money
www.aquamist.co.uk
http://www.snowperformance.net/
www.coolingmist.com
www.alcohol-injection.com
www.enginerunup.com
www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection
www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm
Here is a link to Richard L's Sticky with details on companies:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958501
Who is the best manufacture to go with?

That is up to debate, but when you choose a kit, look at all the components that come with the kit, or if you can buy extra pieces that you may need, or think you need I.E. Level switches, fail safes, extra nozzles, varible controllers.
Also consider what type of reservoir you are going to have to use, or does the kit include one?
Most companies have some sort of reservoir, some make you use the existing windshield wiper tank, or make you supply your own.
Also read other peoples experiences with different kits as far as setup, price, inclusiveness of kit (does it satisfy all your requirements part-wise), power gains, etc.​

How do I know how big a nozzle to run?​

Here is a water injection calculator to assist in this
Calculator

Another injection calculator
[/url]=http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...read.php?t=351[/url]​

It is at the bottom of the page...​

Here is a volume converter also, to cross reference nozzles. Some companies list volumes of their nozzle in metric, some in standard units of measure.
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/volume.php

Where can I get methanol?
One of the best sources that some probably don't realize is from wal-mart or anywhere that sells basic windshield wiper fluid. Just make sure you don't get the stuff with Glycol in it...this is the same stuff used in engine anti-freeze. It won't work well, or could damage you engine.​

Other sources:​


This one has a comprihensive list of suppliers all over the USA​



Those are just some.​

Are there any water injection forums I can learn more from?

Yes, here are a few:​


How do I know what mixture to inject?

THe best rule of thumb is a 50/50 mix of methnol and distilled water​

Some use more meth, some use less. But windshield wiper fluid is commonly between 35-42% methanol, which will usually work fine. The best mixture is proportionate to your particular state of tune. A little less methanol could possibly cause detonation. Mixing it yourself maybe the best way to know what is right for you.​

Here is a freeze table for methanol also:​


Just be careful with methanol as it is corrosive, toxic, and a carcinogen. Please be careful if you decide to mix your own brew.​

Here is a link to a methanol hydrogemeter:​


Here is a great how to page:​


Can you build your own kit, and how?

You need some basics to build your own system.​

You need a pump with adequate pressure, most people use some type of diaphram pump, from ShurFlo for example.​

You need nozzles​

You need tubing​

You need a trigger to turn on the system at the right time, some type of pressure switch...Some engine management such as TurboXS UTEC has a spare solenoid that can be setup to run your water injection system.​

Many of the things needed for setting up a system can be found at these suppliers​


And here is a great how to page on building your own...
http://www.projectwrx.com/modules.ph...howpage&pid=34

Can water/meth injection cause damage to my engine?

As with any aftermarket part, yes it can.​

If you are running water/meth injection, you are risking detonation and catostrophic engine failure shoud you system fail or not run at optimum efficiency. This is due to the fact that when tuned you will be running advanced timing, boost and leaner fuel trims that would normally not be possible without water/meth injection. Loss of the system while under heavyload may not be able to be compensated for in time, and could cause detonation at best case, and engine failure at worst case. Be careful, and make sure you use a failsafe, or a tune that retards timing at the onset of knock, and some sort of level indicatior for the reservior, to ensure you know when the tank is getting empty. Nozzle clog indicators are not a bad idea either. They are especially important if using tap water, or not using a filter in the system, to catch impuritiies. This is why distilled water is best for this application.​

Can I run without a external intercooler?

Yes, but your tune has to be setup to compesate for it. Advantages to running without a TMIC or FMIC are better spool of turbo and response, due to less volume to fill up. But again, you must make sure your system is working properly all the time, some have experimented with not using an external intercooler with success.​

What gains can be made from water/meth injection?

This all depends on the current setup of your car, type of car, and your tuners ablilty. All your supporting mods such as exhaust, intakes, turbos gains are best realized with some sort of aftermarket tuning. The same it true with water/meth injection. But generally gains of 20-30 Hp and 20-30 ft/lbs of tq are common, making this one of the best bang for the buck power upgrades for your car. Your gains of course depend on supporting mods you already have in place, that will let you take advantage of the tuning to a higher degree.​

Other NASIOC threads concerning water/meth injection:


Octane info and such...UPDATED

 
METHANOL INJECTION *******************



impp_1101_01_o+2006_mitsubishi_evo_ix_se+devilsown_kit.jpg








Water/methanol injection remains a popular upgrade within the high performance automotive market. It's hard to believe that injecting water and anything else into an engine in the quest for more power can actually be a good idea, but the truth is that water/methanol injection is beneficial to all forcibly induced and naturally aspirated engines-if done properly. The main function of water/methanol injection is to prevent detonation, but that's not to say it can't also increase horsepower/torque output by 10 to 15 percent with proper tuning.


What is Methanol?


Methanol is an alcohol compound comprised of one carbon atom, one oxygen atom, and four hydrogen atoms (CH3OH) and is also referred to as wood alcohol, carbinic acid, and methyl alcohol. This poisonous, flammable, and relatively volatile liquid is naturally occurring, and domestic uses date as far back as the third millennia B.C., when Egyptians used methanol in their legendary embalming processes. It was first synthesized in the 1600s, and was later combined with water and used during WWII in supercharged fighter planes and bomber engines. After a few fast years, it was even banned in both F1 and NASCAR in the '60s for adding too much power to competition engines.


How does it work?


Simply put: it helps prevent detonation. Substances heat up when they're compressed, and in traditional gasoline engines, detonation-or "pre-ignition"-occurs when a cylinder's air/fuel charge compresses and heats to the point of auto-ignition during the compression phase, before it can be lit at the proper time by a spark plug. If this occurs a few degrees of crank rotation in advance, the consequences may not be bad. But if it occurs farther back in the compression stroke, in high-horsepower instances, it can easily destroy an engine's internal components. Water/methanol injection systems deliver a finely atomized mist of a water/methanol mixture to an engine's cylinder charge, and as the mixture absorbs heat and vaporizes, temperatures inside the cylinder are reduced and the propensity for detonation is decreased. Today's newer, knock-sensor-equipped vehicles are very good at staving off detonation by retarding ignition timing the moment detonation-also known as "knock"-is detected, but do so at the cost of severely decreased power output and fuel economy.


While water is not combustible, it has a greater capacity to cool intake charges than methanol alone. This is why most manufactures recommend that a 1:1 mixture of meth and water be injected into your engine. Methanol also effectively increases the octane rating of fuel, giving the benefits of running higher octane levels. The evaporative effects of the water, plus the octane boost of methanol, allows your motor to run more advanced ignition timing and/or boost to create additional horsepower with proper tuning. A general rule of thumb is that an engine will output one percent more horsepower for every 10 degrees intake temperature is decreased. Many enthusiasts have found the benefits of using water/methanol injection equivalent to running race gas, but without the $12/gallon price tag.


With dozens of methanol injection kits sold on the market today, we headed over to SoCal tuning gurus HB Speed in Huntington Beach, CA, and tested the Devilsown DVC-30 Stage 2 kit on an '06 Mitsubishi EVO IX SE. While many of their competitors' kits use parts commonly found at local hardware stores, Devilsown designs each component to work specifically with each of their methanol kits to provide long-term reliability. From their nozzle holder that reduces internal turbulence, to tank adaptors with built-in filters, to their progressive methanol controllers designed specifically for boosted applications, Devilsown takes the fear out of using water/methanol injection, enabling your engine to run more boost and timing to maximize power.





The Devilsown DVC-30 electronic progressive controller is the brain of the system, and converts from MAP voltage to a boost value to initiate the water/methanol pump when adjusted using the dial settings. When boost pressure reaches a pre-determined level, the pump activates at 15 percent duty cycle and then ramps up in keeping with boost to deliver a linear response curve. As a safety feature, the controller can quickly shut off the pump when boost pressure drops below a certain threshold, to prevent misfire or engine damage. The progressive controller's compact design was intended to be mounted inside a car, for easy adjustment of the system on the fly, with no need to pop the hood or use screwdrivers to adjust the knobs.





This 250psi variable-speed pump is marketed as the highest-pressure pump on the market. This high-pressure pump ensures the spray nozzles emit the smallest droplets possible for peak atomization. The DVL-8031 pump's unique design enables it to run dry without damage, and includes a built-in reverse check valve to protect its internal components for longevity.







M1 Fabrication and Development, located in Brea, CA, custom fabricated a bracket to secure the 2.5-gallon tank in the trunk of our EVO IX.










Clogged nozzles are the primary cause for water/methanol injection failure. Devilsown designed their methanol tank fittings with a cone-shaped screen that is placed outward, against the flow of the water-methanol mix, to deflect nozzle clogging.









When used with the DVC-30 controller, an optional self-sealing float switch activates an LED warning system to warn when the water/methanol has reached low levels.











Devilsown compression fittings are designed with interlocking teeth to allow pressure hoses to be connected with a simple push, or disconnected by sliding a tab, for a water-tight seal.










We opted to install an optional Devilsown upgrade package, consisting of three feet of high-pressure nylon hose, fittings to relocate the check valve before the "Y" union, and additional parts to run a dual-nozzle setup.










Removable, screw-in 80-micron filters allow for easy cleaning and excellent filtration. The nozzles are nickel plated to protect from methanol corrosion for increased lifespan. Each spray nozzle is designed with built-in O-rings to prevent leakage. Determining the correct nozzle size will depend on engine displacement, type of kit, pressure of pump, and horsepower, but can also be determined by using the Devilsown nozzle calculator, located on their website (given at the end of this article).





Devilsown's 2.5-gallon tank is the first water/methanol tank with a built-in sump and fluid control baffle. The sump design eliminates pump starvation under hard cornering, while the baffle reduces liquid "sloshing" during sprinted driving. The tank is made with 1/4-inch-thick HDPE, which is the same material and construction common to most racing fuel cells.





M1 Fabrication and Development welded two bung fittings onto our charge pipe. We positioned one nozzle in front of the throttle body, with the other mounted directly after the blow-off valve.









The Devilsown water/methanol delivery jet in action.













The production of more power by a water/methanol-injected engine is not a product of the water/meth mixture alone. You must tune to get the most out of it. Our EVO IX-equipped with a Tomei Arms M7960 turbo, Cosworth M2 camshafts, Cosworth CNC-ported head, Okada Projects Plasma Quad Pac, and full Fujitsubo exhaust-dynoed a baseline of 375 hp and 364 lb-ft of torque.









Upon dynoing the EVO with the Devilsown kit installed, we found that the octane-boosting effect of the water/methanol mixture mirrored tuning a car with race fuel. The water/methanol injection enabled us to run the same air/fuel ratios as a pump gas tune, but with less fuel added to the map of our engine management software. Tuning with water/methanol injection, we typically ended up with the same air/fuel ratios common to pump-fuel tunes, but with less fuel needed, and the benefits of increased knock resistance. We were able to add timing and boost from 3,800 rpm to redline, and made 400 hp and 386 lb-ft of torque. Although we could have made even more power over our baseline, the goal was to use the water/methanol injection to safeguard the motor when driven under extreme track temperatures and strenuous road racing, rather than simply going for maximum power.






10 Things You Should Know About Methanol Injection, But Were Afraid To Ask.




By Chance McClurkin, of Devilsown


1) What gains can be expected from water/meth injection?


Depending on the current setup of your car, the type of car, and your tuner's ability, all mods are best realized with some sort of aftermarket tuning-the same theory applies to water/meth injection. But generally, gains of 25-45 hp and as many lb-ft of torque are common, making methanol injection one of the best bang-for-the-buck power upgrades for your car.


2) Can water/meth injection damage my engine?


With most aftermarket parts there's always the possibility of damage, but not if the unit is installed and used properly. As long as the injection system is working properly, it can only do good things. Since the water and methanol will help dissolve carbon buildup, it can keep your spark plugs, valves, and combustion chambers very clean, too.


3) Can you run just water injection without methanol?


Yes, but you will not be able to take advantage of the octane-boosting properties of methanol, thus you will get cooling from the water, but no increase in octane. Without methanol, you may not make as much power.





4) We've shown how a turbocharged car can benefit from using water/methanol injection, but can it be used on naturally aspirated cars as well?


Yes, it can be used on N/A applications. Generally, it's used when someone needs more octane or is having problems with detonation.


5) What are the most important issues when setting up a methanol kit?


The most important issue is proper nozzle sizing. It's far too common that people go off the "if a little is good, more is better" mentality-which is why we recommend a 1:1 ratio of water and methanol. The motor can only ingest so much water in the combustion chambers before it loses horsepower.


6) What supporting upgrades are required for water/methanol injection?


At minimum, you should have some sort of engine management that can be tuned to adjust timing, boost, and fuel curves to compensate for the octane boost and cooling effects. You do not need an aftermarket intake, exhaust, intercooler, or strengthened internals. Although, with more supporting mods, more power can be made.


7) Is a high-psi pump necessary to feed methanol? Why not use the factory windshield wiper pump?


Water/methanol must be injected above 60 psi to properly atomize into the engine. Pressures lower than that will reduce the cooling effects, since the larger droplets exiting the low-pressure pump reduce total surface area, and will cause little to no gain in performance.


8) How long will a two-quart tank last?


In high boost/high horsepower applications, a quarter-mile run will use as much as 1/8th of a tank. A larger tank should be considered if boost pressures of over nine psi are utilized in road racing, where a two-quart tank will run dry in as few as five to six two-mile laps. Under normal street use in a 400hp car, a two-quart tank will usually last about 450 miles.


9) Can I use windshield washer fluid?


Most wiper fluids contain some sort of glycol or detergent that can clog your nozzle. We recommend our proprietary methanol blend: Devilsown Brew. Not only does methanol improve your fuel quality, it will also give you a better intercooling effect in the inlet tract. Denatured alcohol can be used, but we strongly advise our customers to use methanol for better, more consistent performance.


10) At what boost level should one introduce water/methanol?


Systems for superchargers or large turbo setups will deliver methanol at 50 percent of peak boost. Positive-displacement superchargers or fast-spooling turbos should inject meth at or near peak boost. Most engines are pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, up to a point of diminishing returns.






Where To Locate Your Water/Methanol Injection Nozzle




1. MAF Sensor


Make sure you do not place the nozzle in front of the mass air-flow sensor (MAF). Injecting water or methanol through the MAF sensor will likely cause it to short out.


2. Pre-Turbo


Locating the nozzle in front of the turbo chemically alters the turbo compressor map, causing a change in the engine's air/fuel ratios. Injecting water/methanol directly into the turbo can also damage the compressor blade.


3. Pre-Intercooler


Installing the nozzle before the intercooler might seem like the perfect location to aid in pre-cooling, but it does have its drawbacks. If the nozzle doesn't emit a fine enough mist, both water and methanol can condense and collect in the bottom of an intercooler core. In colder climates, the overcooling effect can cause the water to freeze inside an intercooler, causing a blockage of airflow. On the flipside, hot air from the turbo can prematurely vaporize the water by the time it reaches the intake, rendering the system ineffective.


4. Post-Intercooler


Most methanol installers prefer placing the nozzle before the intake air temperature (IAT) sensor typically found on newer vehicles. IAT sensors monitor the temperature of air going into an engine, and can automatically advance ignition timing and lean out air/fuel ratios due to cooler intake temps of water/methanol injection. This cause-and-effect scenario can create more horsepower, but may also damage an engine. Another problem we found was placing the nozzle before the blow-off valve, which causes an unwanted release of meth/water vapors at throttle let-off.


5. Charge Pipe


Placing the injection nozzle as far from the cylinders as possible on the intake charge pipe allows for the water/methanol mixture to be better absorbed into the intake air charge. This allows for greater distribution into to each cylinder, creating the coolest possible air charge.


6. Throttle Body


The most common location to place a nozzle is three to six inches from the throttle body. The nozzle should spray directly into the throttle body and should never be placed right before a tight-radius bend. Positioning a nozzle directly in front of an angled pipe can cause the liquid to adhere to the walls of the pipe before dribbling ineffectively into the intake manifold.


7. Intake manifold


Installing separate nozzles into each intake runner will deliver equal amounts of water/methanol to each cylinder. The only downside to installing the nozzles into the manifold is the additional labor and parts costs.

 
Not spam, it is informative.

This is spam >> :spam:
 
Cool google and copy/paste thread, can you do one on open vs closed loop operation and which is which?
 
I know I never really thought I would see plagiarism outside of school but...from an academic standpoint at least you didn't use wikipedia. If you did, your posts were too long and I did not read nor check your sources. As a result I will do my own research from now on.
 
I know I never really thought I would see plagiarism outside of school but...from an academic standpoint at least you didn't use wikipedia. If you did, your posts were too long and I did not read nor check your sources. As a result I will do my own research from now on.

Thank you, No plagerism, not my articles, bibliography not required. Don't shoot the messanger.
 
Links are all on the first post, 2 of the articles do show the authors, others are in the links.

'By C.J. Baker'
'By Paul Huizenga, Photography by Courtesy of the manufacturers, KJ Jones, Paul Huizenga Hot Rod Magazine, May, 2009'
 
I guess the point we're making is, why post the huge articles when the links are already there? I know it's helpful info, but we can google search, too. To post the links and then the articles and act as though we needed a messenger to share this information with us or we wouldn't have access to it or know it existed...It looks like you're trying to get credit for sharing this with us. Imagine if I went and found several links as to why the moon landing never happened, and then posted every single word in those links. Not everyone cares, was looking for it, agrees, whatever. Just seems odd..
 
Cobra, don’t take this the wrong way, but these types of threads are far more useful when they reflect a certain degree of brevity. Don’t just cut and paste articles; we know how to use google. If you want to make a helpful technical thread than read the article yourself, give us the Coles Notes version, and the corresponding link.
 
OK, thanks all.
 
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