Fine tune my stroker build

[dan89XJ]

I'm currently working on a build plan for my stroker motor. I will be trying to put together a very complete parts list for this stroker build. I will be making changes from your inputs and after more researching. So, I'll update the parts list until its satisfactory. I want to include parts with prices, machine work needed done with approx cost. I want to hear input from you about which parts/brand to use, cost of work.. and any additional ideas to my build.

The build: 89 XJ 4.0 motor with Renix system. Turning into a 4.6 stroker motor.

*Parts list*

Block: Stock 89 Renix 4.0 block casting number: 53005535
- bore over .030
- No decking
- no balancing
- dip
- new cam bearings
- new frost plugs
- cost of machine work ?

Crankshaft: Stock 4.2 remanufacture casting number: 3214723 $190(with bearings from Schucks.com)
- 12 counterweights, 66lb, 64mm nose
- custom 10mm spacer

Connecting rods: Stock 4.2 part number: 3180444 Casting number: 707
- New rods $35 each($210.. better deal out there?)
- still need to have them resized ?


Pistons: .030 oversize
- Type ?
- press on rods $?

Camshaft: Stock HO used
- Possible a/m if good one found

Clyinder head: HO head casting number: 7120
- Regrind valves seats/valves
- Mill guides if needed
- $0(doing that myself)

Intake manifold: Stock HO
-Throttle body adapter for renix $?

Exhaust:
- APN header
- Custom downpipe with flex line
- 2.5” tube
- Large quiet muffler
- need to search on prices

Need to figure out:
- Type of pistons
- Head gasket type/size
- Approx cost of machine work

Additional parts needed:
- Lifters
- Gaskets
- Rings
- Bearings
- Water pump
- Timing gear set
- motor mounts
- What else should do with the motor out ?
- ford racing fuel injectors 19lb(already have set)$0

So with my parts list, you can see that I'm building a fairly stock motor with an improved exhaust. What I want is a good DD motor that runs on regular gas.

 

[cruiser54]

Only things I might do differently is keep the Renix throttle body but have it bored to 60mm by www.strokedjeep.com and replace the injectors with 4 pintle Bosch units. Match port your Renix intake to the 7120 head and use the Renix gasket to mate the two.Done it. Works great.

 

[dan89XJ]

Only things I might do differently is keep the Renix throttle body but have it bored to 60mm by www.strokedjeep.com and replace the injectors with 4 pintle Bosch units. Match port your Renix intake to the 7120 head and use the Renix gasket to mate the two.Done it. Works great.

Thanks for your suggestions. Would the renix intake work with the APN header.. I thought there would be a interference.

 

[Talyn]

Balance.

 

[stroked88]

you'll have to deck the block .020" to get a good quench height, and compression ratio. when i built my stroker we only decked .010" but offset ground the crank .010" also and it runs good.but use an aftermarket cam. why do all that work for a stock cam :dunno: use the 7120 head, and 99 and up intake and throttle body (info on this forum on the swap). also, get the later model pistons as they are hypertectic and have coated skirts. the mopar performance head gasket is the secks (summit racing sells it). get the lifters from whatever manufacturer you get the cam from. cloyes double roller timing chain set will allow you to adjust cam timing when degreeing the cam in. cost me $350 for decking boring and honing. will probably need ford 24lbs also. sorry for the babbling typing as i see things

 

[dan89XJ]

Balancing is cool.. but I dont see myself pulling high rpms on my motor very much. Also going with the heavier crankshaft should help things out.

Ok, help me understand. Whats the point of decking the block, Is it currently uneven now ? I could see myself doing the extra work installing a 99 intake if I could get one for a good price. Reason I want to go with a stock cam is because I hear about cam failures, and I am not an expert at picking one out either. Also going with an aftermarket cam, wont I need to get matched springs ? That's just going to add up quite a bit. I read that the stock HO cam works good.. and I can always swap the cam out down the road.

 

[stroked88]

the point of decking the block is that when you do the 4.2 crank and rods, with 4.0 pistons, it leaves the piston too far down in the bore to have good compression or quench height. if you try to use a stock cam with out the lifters that came with it in the spot they came fro it will fail. get a new lunati, read the directions on the break in procedure, follow them, and you will not be dissapointed. lunati also sells the springs you will need. call them and tell them what you intend to do with it and they will help you. if you dont have the lifters to match the cam, dont use it. i wouldnt use an old cam in a new motor anyways. no point in doing a stroker for more power if you cant use all the power due to a stock cam. yes you will feel more power, but you are going to be leaving a lot of potential on the table, that wont cost you that much. swapping the cam down the road is a pain when you have to pull the cylinder head to get out the lifters too. balancing prolongs engine life also. not necessary on inline motors but good if you can afford it.
edit: cam kit here http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2386&gid=297

 

[stroked88]

it sounds to me like you need to do a little bit more research before trying to tackle this, which i suppose is the point of this thread, but try searching on here and on strokedjeep.com for more info

 

[dan89XJ]

Thanks for the info. I did not realize the piston would not go as high as it would with a stock setup vs a 4.2 crank/rod.

I also want to maintain good fuel economy, meaning if I can get a noticeable difference comparing to a camshaft like you suggested.. I think I want to stay with that. I should look into the lunati cams.. sounds like they have good prices on the cam kits.

In my situation, I have a high mileage 4.0 with a rod knock.. I am looking at doing stroker as it would not cost that much more to do vs rebuilding the motor stock. So, I'm not just building a stoker motor purely for power increase.

 

[mxracer624]

Jeepstrokers.com very good info for your questions..

 

[wanaB4x4]

schneider cam ... jerry cantrell will grind u a custom cam to anything u tell him ur lookin for in the motor .. he is the one who taught crower how to make cams and then crower went off to do high production(junk) .. i only use schneider cams .. best for the money and cheaper then any aftermarket cam and u know it will run the way u want .. and u can assure its gonna be the best for ur set up cause he grinds all the cams 1 off . to ur order..
in the 60's they were the #1 cam and were the cam in the famous "offy" motors
this is there motto
"If you weren't running a Schneider cam, you may as well have just not showed up to race."

here is my suggestion for a low RPM high power cam
Part Number: 10056
Grind Number: 252-56H
Intake Duration (gross): 252
Exhaust Duration (gross): 256
Intake Duration (.050”): 194
Exhaust Duration (.050”): 204
Intake Valve Lift*: .424"
Exhaust Valve Lift*: .448"
Lobe Separation: 110
Intake Valve Lash: .000"
Exhaust Valve Lash: .000"
RPM Range:
1000-3500
http://schneidercams.com/25256HamcI6hydraulic.aspx
$178

u can change the lope sep also if u like same price... also best customer service ive ever had and more knowlege in cams then anyone ..they have been around since the 50's ..

lunati is ok cams. but they have been bought out so many times i dont trust them anymore .. first they were bought by holley. then recently they were bought by private investors ..that dont want there names out there ..

 

[cruiser54]

Thanks for your suggestions. Would the renix intake work with the APN header.. I thought there would be a interference.

Yes, and any interference can be cleaned up with a file in 5 minutes.No worries.

 

[Talyn]

Balancing is cool.. but I dont see myself pulling high rpms on my motor very much. Also going with the heavier crankshaft should help things out.

It has nothing to do with high RPMs. An imbalance cans how up below our redline. I have experienced this myself. The engine will also live longer. And if your 12 weight crank it out of balance it will just add to the problems.

 

[Dr. Dyno]

if you try to use a stock cam with out the lifters that came with it in the spot they came fro it will fail.

You can reuse the old stock cam with new lifters. I've been running my 4.6 stroker that way for the last 27k miles (61k miles total on the stroker).

 

[lowicz96]

I helped my buddy with his 4.5 stoker made out of a 88 block i gave him, which is almost the same setup you have minus boring it .030 over. It was a very cheap build with no machine work and hes waiting to put an intake, exhaust and other jazz on it until he breaks in the motor some more.

The renix cam works very well for him and he used the renix lifters too but now his issue is fuel. The motor is just running too lean

 

[stroked88]

You can reuse the old stock cam with new lifters. I've been running my 4.6 stroker that way for the last 27k miles (61k miles total on the stroker).

ok let me rephrase that. it is not impossible nor will it for sure cause a problem, but! it will increase your chances that there will be a problem if not immediately, then down the road. any cam manufacturer's card always says to use new lifters with new cam. yes they may just be wanting to sell lifters too but, cams and lifters develop a wear patter to each other that it is best not to mess with. if you pull the cam and lifters, keep them organized to where the lifter goes to the same lobe. fyi 110 lobe center cams dont idle for crap with renix efi... ask me how i know

 

[stroked88]

I helped my buddy with his 4.5 stoker made out of a 88 block i gave him, which is almost the same setup you have minus boring it .030 over. It was a very cheap build with no machine work and hes waiting to put an intake, exhaust and other jazz on it until he breaks in the motor some more.

The renix cam works very well for him and he used the renix lifters too but now his issue is fuel. The motor is just running too lean

again didnt say you can't do it and it wont run better, but if your gonna have the motor apart that far, unless you just flat dont have the cash and can in no way get it, why not put an aftermarket cam to move your torque and hp into the range you need it. whether that be a high rpm jeepspeed motor, or a low rpm high torque rock crawler motor.

 

[wanaB4x4]

ok let me rephrase that. it is not impossible nor will it for sure cause a problem, but! it will increase your chances that there will be a problem if not immediately, then down the road. any cam manufacturer's card always says to use new lifters with new cam. yes they may just be wanting to sell lifters too but, cams and lifters develop a wear patter to each other that it is best not to mess with. if you pull the cam and lifters, keep them organized to where the lifter goes to the same lobe. fyi 110 lobe center cams dont idle for crap with renix efi... ask me how i know

true.. i know that 110 lob sep if for dragracing and carb motors why i said he can change the lobe sep no extra charge + scneider will grind it to what he tells him he wants to do with the motor anyways .. always put new lifters and cam in a rebuilt motor.. cams now adays wear down very fast .. espically flat tappet .. cause the motor oil they are makeing now does not have the zinc and phos. in it to cushion the lifters thats why all motors are now roller cams.. ..i bet if u took the cam out and got it spec'd it would be .10 .20 below stock lift or even more.. and + u better be putting in new cam bearing ..then u would have to polish the cam anyways y not NEW?

also when u go to break in the motor i HIGHLY Suggest using schneiders break in additive I STAND BY THIS 100%


USE formula #2 for break in . http://schneidercams.com/formula2additive.aspx
and formula #3 for after the rings are broke in http://schneidercams.com/formula3engineadditive.aspx
pistons usually seat after first 1000 miles***Caution if u use #3 before the rings set the lubricating property s are so great ur rings will never seal***

no matter what cam u choose use this break in additive . but deff get a new cam..

 

[Dr. Dyno]

ok let me rephrase that. it is not impossible nor will it for sure cause a problem, but! it will increase your chances that there will be a problem if not immediately, then down the road. any cam manufacturer's card always says to use new lifters with new cam. yes they may just be wanting to sell lifters too but, cams and lifters develop a wear patter to each other that it is best not to mess with.

In a nutshell:

New cam + new lifters = No problem.
Old cam + new lifters = No problem.
Old cam + old lifters = No problem provided that each lifter goes with the same lobe that it came with.
New cam + old lifters = Trouble.

 

[dan89XJ]

Thanks for the info and tips on the cams. I'll have to do more research on this. I want something that'll give me low end power, good idle(with renix), good fuel economy(close to what a stock cam would get).

I have been hitting jeepstrokes.com and went though their FAQ area.. and found some more info. I read that the 89 renix block deck height is lower than newer 4.0's.. also the height varies. So, am I able to measure the actual deck height, so I can have exact numbers to do my math to figure out the compression raito.

There was not alot of info about the heads.. I am thinking of just staying with the renix head/intake.

I am still trying to figure out what machine work I should do. If I am to balance the motor, I'll have to line bore the crank mains ? I'd rather not do this, or balancing unless its really needed. I also read somewhere that the inline 6's are very well balanced already. I like the idea of chamfering oil holes.