Don't neet to remove diff cover - am I right?

[BrokenSockets]

Unit bearings are smooth and quiet so I don't plan on removing that nut any time soon, but thanks for the tips and advice - forum help is always appreciated (by me, anyway.)

I am just trying to get the 4x4 running in a semi-reliable state for the ice and snow we have with a minimum of time and money as I don't have much of either - especially this time of year.

I still have the front ds out. The axle ujoints may have been shot, but I pulled the caps from the ds joints tonight and they look OK, gave them some new grease. The double cardan has a bit of a flat spot feel in the middle of its motion but I don't know if that is unusual.

This is my DD. Do you think it is suitable to replace the ds and run for a month or so using the 4x4 once in a while or could I be causing harm to the gears and giving myself a headache later? I would plan to do the pinion and any other dodgy looking bearings after Christmas.

 

[kastein]

Should be fine - but I'd pop the cover and find out what's going on in there regardless. Drain the fluid out, if there are metal chunks or any significant flakes/dust in the fluid you might have an issue. Take a couple pics of the gears and post em up, I'm not really a gear specialist but someone else will probably be able to tell you something.

 

[BrokenSockets]

I will do that tomorrow, good suggestion. I was changing the fluid regardless, because when I pulled the axle shaft the gear oil smelled a bit nasty. Taking a few pics is something I did not think of.

I have an old Kodak 110 camera - I could get the film processed at the Fotomat and hold the slides up to my screen. I suppose I could also join this century and go digital.

Thanks again.

 

[pantherchams]

Why does everyone think that nut is so terrible? Even in the rust belt I can crack em loose with one arm and a 20" breaker bar. Probably could not have when I started working on my jeep two years ago though, that I'll admit.

You just haven't found one that sucks enough yet. Im 6' 220 without much fat, and me and my 6'+ rugby forward of a brother have spent an hour with a torch and a 2-3' breaker bar trying to get them off. Then again i've had a couple that popped right off.

Those nuts and the three stupid bolts that hold the hub on can be some of the worst, in my experience.

You are probably fine driving with the DS out if the noise goes away, but i'd listen to kastein and pop the cover, see if anything alarming is going on.
Ben

 

[kastein]

I've pulled something like a dozen of em, up here in the rust belt, with no issues yet. Guess I'm just lucky.

I've also taken 20 or 30 of those hub bolts out and only had 2 of them refuse to come out. One the head rounded off (it was SEVERELY rusted, the worst I had ever seen) so I hammered a 12mm 12-point onto it and it came right out. The other rounded off even worse and I ended up welding a 1/2" nut onto it and then unscrewing it.

 

[pantherchams]

Yeah its crazy, im in CA and had never dealt with much rust until my latest jeep (spent the beginning of its life in illinois). I can't believe how long it takes to replace crap, and how many bottles of pblaster, propane, and sawzall blades I have gone throught to replace the most minor of items. Never again will I buy a vehicle I can find a spec of rust on.

Ben

 

[MoparManiac]

I've pulled something like a dozen of em, up here in the rust belt, with no issues yet. Guess I'm just lucky.

I've also taken 20 or 30 of those hub bolts out and only had 2 of them refuse to come out. One the head rounded off (it was SEVERELY rusted, the worst I had ever seen) so I hammered a 12mm 12-point onto it and it came right out. The other rounded off even worse and I ended up welding a 1/2" nut onto it and then unscrewing it.

I've never had a nut be the problem, it's always removing the hub from the knuckle that blows.

 

[kastein]

I had a hell of a time the first time I tried it, but a 4lb hand sledge, a crappy 12pt socket, and a short extension bar make even the BFH method easy. Using the steering to force the bearing out with a socket and extension or a large bolt is apparently even easier.

 

[Corprin]

Yeah its crazy, im in CA and had never dealt with much rust until my latest jeep (spent the beginning of its life in illinois). I can't believe how long it takes to replace crap, and how many bottles of pblaster, propane, and sawzall blades I have gone throught to replace the most minor of items. Never again will I buy a vehicle I can find a spec of rust on.

Ben

Imagine my shock when I moved from central CA, to Japan where anything rusty is sold to Africa, then to MN, where EVERYTHING is rusted.

 

[BrokenSockets]

I discovered that the two bottles of gear oil on the top shelf were actually both empty so I didn't remove the diff cover tonight, but I put the front DS back in just to see if it was actually as bad as I remembered it being a few days ago. (and whether changing the axle u-joints had made any difference to how it rolled.)

It was actually worse than I remembered. Up and down the driveway (about 1/4 mile) was enough to pull the DS again. Bad scraping noises from the front end. I am guessing adding the DS puts more pressure on the sloppy pinion and whatever else is failing in there, because it is relatively quiet without.

My problem is I have a road trip with the family for a week. I will have to open it up tomorrow to take a look, but don't think I am going to have time to do the pinion and carrier bearings if it needs them before friday.

Should I be thinking of pulling the outer shafts to stop any more rotation of the gears until I can get this taken care of? Will this work or will it cause trouble with the unit bearings?

On the up side, I am now at under 4 minutes to pull or re-install the front DS

 

[kastein]

You can pull the inner shafts and stuff rags in the axle tubes to keep assorted crap from ending up in there, but you need to leave the outer shafts (the ones from the U-joints to the unit bearings) installed or your unit bearings will pop in half while driving, leaving you with a two wheeled jeep.

 

[BrokenSockets]

Yes, inner shafts was my intent. Late night typo.

Looks like that is what I will need to do for now.

 

[BrokenSockets]

Well, I cancelled the road trip for next week - It's too damn cold in Savannah for a nice visit, might as well stay in Canada.

This means I will be doing the front diff bearing replacement next week. I have a Timken kit on the way. Since the front ds has a sticky feeling in the middle, I thought I would do the cardan ujoints and ball&spring as well.

Since the pinion bearings are shot and it wiggles around a bit I am guessing I won't get a valid measurement on the resistance. Or will it not really affect the reading I am looking for? There is no in/out movment detectable, just up/down, side/side wobble. How important is it that this measurement is accurate?

 

[kastein]

With that much wobble you will likely have near zero resistance. To get a good reading (and good performance) you'll need to replace the bearings. If you have never worked on gears before you may have to learn how, depending on how shot it is and some other stuff it could involve a bit of fairly precise work.

To replace the inner pinion bearing and the carrier bearings you will need a shop press and a bearing puller.

 

[BrokenSockets]

I have a puller, but I was going to have a buddy at a machine shop help with the need for a press.

I have also seen some write-ups using dry ice on the shaft (sounds like when I came home at 4 AM after Superbowl last year) and boiling the bearing. Any idea if that actually works?

 

[kastein]

For installing the bearings you can do that, but getting it off is gonna be interesting. I've also heard of people simply putting the bearings in the oven at like 2-300 degrees and the carrier and pinion in the freezer.

Unless your puller has a real deep throat (insert bad jokes here) getting the bearing off the pinion is going to be tough. It's right up behind the gear head, so your puller has to deal with about 4 inches of bearing shoulder, splines, and threads.

The carrier bearings shouldn't be a problem.

 

[sbxj]

Joking, right? If you haven't done this stuff before, get your tools out and pull it apart and figure it out. This "level" of work is like level 1a. When you want to rebuild your tranny, then pickup that FSM. People lose out on so much learning by blindly following instructions, imho.

haha you must be that f'in Jeep mechanic at my Dealership
I'm sure he never uses the FSM either

 

[shanesaw]

I have also seen some write-ups using dry ice on the shaft and boiling the bearing. Any idea if that actually works?

You don't need to go to the extreme of using dry ice. Once you have the old bearing pulled, stick the pinion gear in the fridge for an hour and put the bearing in the oven at a low temp (like 200 degrees, or 94C) for 20 min or so. Pull them out and put some grease on the shank of the pinion gear and on the collar of the bearing and press it on. I was able to get the bearing on this way with a piece of pipe and a hammer in lieu of the press and it worked fine for both my front and rear diffs. Since you will be using an actual press, should be like butter.