donor for ford 9" for XJ

[ren]

Petem, I, myself, am not trying to place anything above another like item, I just do not care for the "C" clip design, regardless of whose brand is stamped on it. Granted, I am not crazy about the 8.8, but alot of people are thrilled with it. IF this was a perfect axle, then it would, for me anyway, be full float, selectable locker, variable ratio, high clearance, and lightweight. I am not dead set against the 8.8, but for me, and MY style of use, I am actually ahead by using the 9", 28 spline axle from a f/s truck. If you look at the reasons that I favor the 9", it does make a bit sense, doesn't it? Each to their own, for whatever reason. I thought that since so many people discuss the "pros" of the 8.8, maybe a few of the "cons" should be addressed as well.
Like I stated, the little body lincolns, and so on- go read the post.

 

[The Blu Yak]

no problem its what my kind of people of breed and raised for. But for his 9" if he does not want a full width then look in a car model. but it will have the weaker 28 splie small bearing shafts. If he wants the full width which will have 31 spline shafts 11inch drums and big bearings then he needs to look under most older f150s. I think mine came out of an 83 f150. The latter of the two is the better if you do not mind having full width axles, even if you dont want full width axles then you can still get one from a truck and cut the axle down to the sixe you need.

 

[ren]

Also, remember that the 9" is a drop-out unit, which means that you can find the housing that will work for you, find the drop-out that will work, 28 or 31 spline, then do the axles to match the spline count. Also, IF you SOMEHOW blow the drop-out out, you can change it on the trail, and not have to worry about wethere or not the gear pattern is right, since the gaers can be set-up BEFORE you have to change the center section- now try that with the majority of axles!

 

[Badcop]

Do what I did, find a 67-69 Dually GM made vehicle. Underneath most likely is a Eaton H110. From factory there gearing ranged from 4.56-5.14 (depending on engine) and some (almost all) had a Detroit locker and there 31-35 spline. Since there a BIG heavy bastard, not many want them, I got mine for the price of gas to get it out of the recycle yard.

Since the Eaton is the big-ass grandpa to the 14b, and the 14b is as abundant as the 35c, and the 14b is cheap, you can steal all of the breaks and axle outers to make it a single wheel.

Like the 9" the Eaton has a drop out center, BUT has a nice diff cover for ease of fluid change, inspection, etc.

ONLY downfall Ive seen so far is parts available, yes the 14b has alot of interchangeable parts, like shafts, R&P, but I havnt heard about the carrier/locker.

 

[Starscream]

Also, remember that the 9" is a drop-out unit, which means that you can find the housing that will work for you, find the drop-out that will work, 28 or 31 spline, then do the axles to match the spline count. Also, IF you SOMEHOW blow the drop-out out, you can change it on the trail, and not have to worry about wethere or not the gear pattern is right, since the gaers can be set-up BEFORE you have to change the center section- now try that with the majority of axles!

Removable 3rd members rock.

I love the idea of the 8.8s disk brakes, but the 9" is just so popular for so many reasons it hard to argue <i>against</i> them.

 

[XJ_ranger]

9 inch, more spline axle shaft, none c clip, bigger ring gear, stronger carrier strong axle tubs and arnt likely to spin one like on the 8.8 and its a fullwidth

Wrong!

8.8 and 9" share the same shaft diamiters in 28 splines and 31 splines - 1.31" for the 31 splines

.2" ring gear difference? come on...

the advantage to the 9" is the aftermarket suppot of lockers, gears, and centersections.

the extra pinion bearing is the only reason to go to a 9" IMO...

Ford uses the same name on the f-150 before and after the change from the 9" to the 8.8 and the same name on the mustang - it is engineered to be the higher clearance replacement for the 8.8

really - c-clips arent all that bad... just means you change your gear oil when you change your axle seals or wheel bearings...

 

[CRASH]

OK, lets' try to clarify this alittle bit, shall we. More to the point, the actual "C" clip itself will not break, but the area where the clip goes is machined into the end of the axle and is a fairly deep cut. Now, if you manage to "shock" load this axle shaft hard enough, and the axle goes to twist, this is the weakest point in the shaft, so, tends to be the point that breaks.

This is just flat not-correct. Have you ever actually seen a C-clip shaft?

The C-clip groove IS NOT SUBJECT TO TORQUE. The splines that engage the torque load end at the C-clip groove. 90% of all shafts break right where the splines exit the carrier, towards the wheel.

It's like twisting a loaf of bread in order to break a piece off for lunch. If you wanted to tear the loaf in half, and you put your hands around the middle of the loaf and twisted, you'd expect the loaf to break between your hands, right? You wouldn't expect to give the loaf a twist and have the end fall off, would you?

 

[CRASH]

I've said this a hundred times, 101 won't hurt. What gives the 9" carrier great strength is also it's weakness, namely, the low pinion.

The lower the pinion enters the case, the more hypoid offset is achieved. This means that the pinion gear has more of a "spiral" pattern than a D-44 or the like. Thus, more pinion tooth is in contact with the ring gear at any given time. This also means you increase the friction load. In fact, a Ford 9" takes about 10 HP to run in typical ratios, about double what a D-44 takes. This MAY be the reason that Ford dropped this axle, fuel mileage.

So, if your type of wheeling doesn't require ground clearance, the 9" may be for you. Out West, in the rocks, it kind of sucks dragging that pinion down in the rocks.

 

[Badcop]

Out West, in the rocks, it kind of sucks dragging that pinion down in the rocks.

that could be said about alot of axles.... But there is truth in what you speak....

 

[CanMan]

The C-clip groove IS NOT SUBJECT TO TORQUE. The splines that engage the torque load end at the C-clip groove. 90% of all shafts break right where the splines exit the carrier, towards the wheel.

Heres a good pic of what he's talking about. Got it from here on .

 

[xjj33p3r]

I've said this a hundred times, 101 won't hurt. What gives the 9" carrier great strength is also it's weakness, namely, the low pinion.

The lower the pinion enters the case, the more hypoid offset is achieved. This means that the pinion gear has more of a "spiral" pattern than a D-44 or the like. Thus, more pinion tooth is in contact with the ring gear at any given time. This also means you increase the friction load. In fact, a Ford 9" takes about 10 HP to run in typical ratios, about double what a D-44 takes. This MAY be the reason that Ford dropped this axle, fuel mileage.

So, if your type of wheeling doesn't require ground clearance, the 9" may be for you. Out West, in the rocks, it kind of sucks dragging that pinion down in the rocks.

Would fuel economy and strength issues be resolved if you switched out your third member to a true hi 9 third member? I'm going to run the low pinion non-nodular 3rd member till it breaks, so I just wanted to know if the upgrade would really be worth it. I'm not talkin about the currie 9, but the actually hi 9 that uses their own 9" gears.

 

[Pete M]

Using this info, throw it in 4lo (2.72:1) and you just smoked a 60... 2342 ft/lbs

Continuous output means you'd have to maintain that output for a very very long time. The 60's max output rating is 5500 ft-lbs.


Anyways, all I'm saying is that the Explorer 8.8 is a GREAT axle swap candidate for an XJ/MJ if you're keeping the Dana 30 and want the items that the 8.8 has in stock form. 3.54/3.73/4.10 gear ratios, disk brakes, factory posi, about the right width, available from just about any junkyard in good condition and with decent miles, and practically indestructible under a mildly built XJ. It's still a very good candidate if you are upgrading to better gear ratios and a locker (although the price I would pay goes down) and replacing the carrier eliminates a "relative" weak point. Yes, the 9inch can be built to be better than the 8.8, I don't deny that. But why start with a 30 year-old car axle that needs a ton of work, if the 8.8 has the innards and strength that the XJ owner needs? The original poster wasn't very specific with what his end goals were so I threw out the 8.8 as an option.
Jeep on!
--Pete

P.S. I did a bit of searching and it appears that all Explorer 8.8s are 31 spline and 95+ are disk braked.

 

[The Blu Yak]

your right i was wrong about the explorer axle shafts I apalogize, and yes I did know the 8.8 can be had with fac disks. I was goin to swap one in but I went the full width route. you can find a 9" for like 100 bucks, i got mine for free I traded a mini ipod and got 40 bucks back. a good 8.8 is expensive atleast around jamestown. For cost wise, a 9" turned out to be far cheaper than a decent 8.8

 

[CRASH]

Would fuel economy and strength issues be resolved if you switched out your third member to a true hi 9 third member? I'm going to run the low pinion non-nodular 3rd member till it breaks, so I just wanted to know if the upgrade would really be worth it. I'm not talkin about the currie 9, but the actually hi 9 that uses their own 9" gears.

No, the same hypoid offset rules apply, more friction + greater strength than a less offset pinion.

However, the beauty of the TueHi9 is the extreme offset in the more favorable direction - out of the rocks!

I think it's the best diff on the market right now, barring the portal stuff.

 

[xjj33p3r]

No, the same hypoid offset rules apply, more friction + greater strength than a less offset pinion.

However, the beauty of the TueHi9 is the extreme offset in the more favorable direction - out of the rocks!

I think it's the best diff on the market right now, barring the portal stuff.

Thanks Crash, that means I just made a pretty wise investment :laugh3:

The hi-9 is coming sometime in the future... I just gotta be running tires that need that amount of strength.

 

[Pete M]

you can find a 9" for like 100 bucks, i got mine for free I traded a mini ipod and got 40 bucks back. a good 8.8 is expensive atleast around jamestown. For cost wise, a 9" turned out to be far cheaper than a decent 8.8

Just an FYI, car-part.com found a bunch of disk/4.10 8.8s under $250 in North Carolina.
Jeep on!
--Pete

 

[The Blu Yak]

in my case, a 9" was a no brainer next to the 8.8. with the money and price and quality and ability to add disks to the 9" cheaply make it the more appealing especially with the route I want my jeep to go in. and no when i looked i didnt find any decent 8.8s for 250, atleast any worth looking at whenever i was making my decision.