Diff angle vs. shock mounts.

[blistovmhz]

98 XJ, 6.5" long arm, shackle relocation + 6" shackle.

Just installed my D44 which has the shock mounts mounted flush with the axle (no drop). Because of the shackle drop and 6" shackle, my pinion points exactly at the t-case, so the axle is leaned back quite a bit. So now the shock mounts that normally point straight out, are now pointing down the driver side and up on the passenger side.
Drivers side mount is 0.5" below axle center while passenger side is 0.5" above. This only leaves 4" up travel on the drivers and 3" on the passengers, and this ain't sufficient.

This is where I'm getting confused. With 31" rubber, 6.5" lift, I've got 9.5" from the top of my tire to my fender flare. An XJ with 6.5" lift has 12.5" from axle center to frame rail, or about 14" from axle center to shock mount. This means you can only get 7" articulation using flush mounts. Stock mounts are dropped 2.5" which brings us to 9.5", which is really only enough to cover our up-travel to bury the wheel, leaving nothing for droop.

So I called a few local shops to ask about drop mounts but no one has any. Everything aftermarket (in Canada) is flush or top mounted, which makes the problem even worse. The guys at the shop argue that I'm wrong and that installing a shock with 6" of travel will somehow give me the same articulation as a shock with 10" travel. I couldn't convince them of how insane they sound.

But, what do you do? I've run flatter leafs in the past, so that I've got enough up-travel to bury my wheel, but then I've only got 2" down travel which is pretty insufficient. Is this just a common problem that most people just deal with, or is there a common solution that I'm not finding? All I can think is flush mount the shocks on the axle, and cut a hole in my floor and mount the top of the shocks to a bar in the cab.

 

[ktm racer 419]

If you have custom shock mounts can't you just cut them off and weld them on so they are level with eachother?

Always try to get the lower shock mount as far outboarded as possible, and as low on the axle tube as possible, every little bit helps when going to maximum travel with the stock upper mount and keeping the lower mount out of the rocks.

setup this way 8" travel shocks fit fine. I ran a similar setup about 5" of lift and 35's iirc.

Also had 35's and was bumpstopped for it too.

 

[rockclimber]

longer shocks.

custom mounts.

this is the reason guys go through the floor with the shocks. so they can mount them flush with the tube to keep them out of the rocks, while still keeping the travel numbers they want.

 

[zachandandy]

What rockclimber said. Although I would say you don't need as much uptravel as you are describing. I have 14" travel shocks through the floor and only have 6" of uptravel before my bump stops. The stops limit travel about 1" before the shock bottoms out. I can still droop out the shock to full extension. Depending upon how you wheel, uptravel should be about half the total travel, and keeping the upper shock mounts will limit you to about a 10" shock anyway. 5" uptravel 5" droop.

 

[blistovmhz]

I think cutting through the floor is probably my favourite direction. I really hate to lose overall articulation just because of bottom out.
Where's a good spot to anchor the shock mount in the cab? I think realistically I'd rather go all the way and mount my shocks on top of the axle, which would require bringing the shock at least 4-5 inches through the floor. Looks like the frame being about level with the wheel well would work.

 

[ktm racer 419]

With my setup above I didn't have any issues with lack of articulation. although it must be tough to get your 31's to compress as far as you want. Also watch out for inverting your leaf springs too much. I can imagine getting 31's to stuff with a shackle relocation bracket and longer shackle pretty much requires well inverted leaf springs.

I went with my shocks through the floor for handling and go-fast reasons. Lower mount to the u bolt plates, upper mount is shock hoops.

 

[clean4drxj]

I have the same setup and those shocks from this guy as well, it works well and there's nothing to get snagged on when you cut the mounts off..

 

[blistovmhz]

With my setup above I didn't have any issues with lack of articulation. although it must be tough to get your 31's to compress as far as you want. Also watch out for inverting your leaf springs too much. I can imagine getting 31's to stuff with a shackle relocation bracket and longer shackle pretty much requires well inverted leaf springs.

I went with my shocks through the floor for handling and go-fast reasons. Lower mount to the u bolt plates, upper mount is shock hoops.

Sweet dude. This is exactly what I was looking for. I figured it shouldn't be too much work but haven't seen a lot of other guys doing it. I was thinking about doing the cut and using an F150 shock tower instead to save time on fabrication, plus those towers are nice and enclosed.

I was also wondering something else, and perhaps someone may have an answer.
Given leafs sorta suck, but they do work real nice for locating the axle front to back, would it be possible/"a good idea" to run a real light leaf pack for front/back location, a trac-bar for side-side location, and a set of coilovers for suspension, or would axle wrap just kill ya?

 

[Phil]

All the work of a traction bar, all the expense of coil overs, and all the departure angle of leaf springs?

A traction bar will typically give you high anti squat. Make the rear stand up on acceleration.

I am not an advocate of linking a full body rig, but if you are seriously thinking about that schmischmortion, just link the stupid thing.

 

[ktm racer 419]

Sweet dude. This is exactly what I was looking for. I figured it shouldn't be too much work but haven't seen a lot of other guys doing it. I was thinking about doing the cut and using an F150 shock tower instead to save time on fabrication, plus those towers are nice and enclosed.

I was also wondering something else, and perhaps someone may have an answer.
Given leafs sorta suck, but they do work real nice for locating the axle front to back, would it be possible/"a good idea" to run a real light leaf pack for front/back location, a trac-bar for side-side location, and a set of coilovers for suspension, or would axle wrap just kill ya?

Get some quality leaves and you might have a better opinion of them.

by the time you do all that, you might as well just link it.

 

[blistovmhz]

Get some quality leaves and you might have a better opinion of them.

by the time you do all that, you might as well just link it.

Who makes good leafs now though? I've had real shit luck with'm lately. My RE's are way too stiff (maybe 6" travel total, though they are nice on the street), and my three sets of RC 4.5" all fell apart (they're having some serious production issues and all three sets were different spring rates, and all three threw bushings in the first week).

 

[ktm racer 419]

I can vouch for deaver, and clayton. and always heard good things about alcan, big offroad, and newer rock krawler springs.

 

[blistovmhz]

Yea, Clayton stuff looked good. I've never seen their stuff in Canada at all so no experience to go on, but the fact that they provide replacement parts for everything they make is a pretty big sell for me.
I'll see what I can bastard pack together and if it doesn't do what I need, I'll give Clayton a shot.

What size shocks are you running now anyhow, and have you measured your articulation?

 

[ktm racer 419]

was running 10" travel. it had more articulation with the 8" shocks in the stock(ish) mounting location.

never measured or had it on a ramp with either setup.

 

[Devilfrog]

Have you factored in that at the stock shock angle, your travel at tje shock is not 1:1. It's closer to 2:1 (I could do some math but it's too late for that) meaning that for every 2" the axle moves, the shock sees 1".

 

[ktm racer 419]

Have you factored in that at the stock shock angle, your travel at tje shock is not 1:1. It's closer to 2:1 (I could do some math but it's too late for that) meaning that for every 2" the axle moves, the shock sees 1".

yes, and they were inboarded further. with shocks closer inboarded and at more of an angle the less effective they are, but will allow more total wheel travel when flexing.

with that said, the 10's and less flex mounted outboard was worlds better than more flex with the 8's mounted inboard. Granted it was a FOA 2.0 valved stiffer vs a bilstein 5150

I only did the 10's outboarded because I had them. If I had my choice I would have ran at the least, 12's.