day by day AC problems get worse

[Ecomike]

You are correct. My fault. I took it to the local shop today to get a pro opinion on the AC. Those were his findings. I knew the blower motor was bad, and thought the fan clutch was, so I was 50/50 on those parts. Now I'll see if I can find the expansion block, then call around to see if someone has R12 without having to drive to Mexico/TJ this weekend and look for it...

For the EV at about $28, call Dixie auto air, at 800-798-5601, or 713-644-7235. Talk to Dale, or try his old email [email protected] (don't know if the email or 800 # still works, but the 713 phone is good for sure, took the others off an old business card). He has been there for a good 30+ years, wholesale parts and services ISD buses and UPS trucks, and dealerships.

 

[winterbeater]

Usually the expansion valve leaking is just the o-rings between the valve and the lines. Not the valve itself.

 

[Ecomike]

Usually the expansion valve leaking is just the o-rings between the valve and the lines. Not the valve itself.

Mine was leaking on the bottom side, o'ring seal/shaft on the bottom, but it is not accessable to replace that seal. Also it was a 22 year old valve.

But you make a good point, especially with the newer QCs and R-134a, the O'rings at the connectors are real bad about leaking. I have been told that it helps to run the AC once a month or more, year round to get oil to the o-rings to ensure they stay (read that as they don't dry out) so they can stay sealed.

 

[winterbeater]

I have been told that it helps to run the AC once a month or more, year round to get oil to the o-rings to ensure they stay (read that as they don't dry out) so they can stay sealed.

Which of course happens when you run defrost.

 

[wgregt]

Update: Yesterday I spent most of the day @ the AC shop. New expansion valve (replacing o-rings not an option), new blower motor (I put in beforehand), 2.88# of R-12, yellow dye, and tested. Blew cold, got to 38 degrees inside. $400, but it worked.

I drove home across LA traffic. All was well and cold. Pulled into the garage, and as I leave I hear a hissing sound and see dye coming from the radiator area WFO. I call....yep. "It's the condenser. You are leaking r-12. Get back here ASAP."

Damn. Didn't even make it in the house. BACK across town @ rush hour, they drain what's left (1.25#) and today I'm BACK there for another $400 and 2-3 hours. On a saturday. New condenser.

Damn.

 

[wgregt]

Really though, I bought this new in '88 and have never had to recharge it, never had to replace blower motor or any of these parts, and never had it work less than 100%, even in my yearly LA to NC high-speed non-stop Cannonball-like runs in July/August with my foot on the floor standing on it for 4 days straight with the AC @ WFO non-stop.

So...$800 in 21 years... Can I justify this? Can I get a reading on this?

Trying damn hard to be half-full about this....help a brother out?

 

[Ecomike]

Did they use vaseline?

So are you going to spend another $800 tomorrow when the compressor goes next?

What exactly did they replace? Hoses? filter dryer? Did they add a high pressure switch to protect the condenser from overpressure?

Are both fans working properly ALL the time? Overpressure would blow the condenser, or the old style over pressure valve. Where exactly did it leak?

Oh, and I have never heard of an AC system on a car running leak free that long. AC high pressure hose is usually shot in under 10 years.

 

[Saudade]

Last summer I dropped just over $400 on my 88 getting my AC back up. I had to by a new compressor (well a reman), new dryer, and a new condenser, I replaced all the o-rings. Then vac'ed and refilled with R-12. So the $400 was cheap since I did all the work myself.

I also had to replace the exhaust manifold, cat and muffler the same year so I could pass smog test.

So I dropped some big $$ on a 21 year old heep. Each year it seems to be something else "major". I always weigh the cost of fixing it vs the monthly payment of replacing it. Since it runs fine in all other respects (a few quirks here an there) and, more importantly, still serves my needs, I believe I'm still ahead by keeping it going. Insurance is relatively cheap, I get decent mileage, and, it a Jeep!

I'm surprised they didn't try to convert you to R-134a.

 

[Ecomike]

Last summer I dropped just over $400 on my 88 getting my AC back up. I had to by a new compressor (well a reman), new dryer, and a new condenser, I replaced all the o-rings. Then vac'ed and refilled with R-12. So the $400 was cheap since I did all the work myself.

I also had to replace the exhaust manifold, cat and muffler the same year so I could pass smog test.

So I dropped some big $$ on a 21 year old heep. Each year it seems to be something else "major". I always weigh the cost of fixing it vs the monthly payment of replacing it. Since it runs fine in all other respects (a few quirks here an there) and, more importantly, still serves my needs, I believe I'm still ahead by keeping it going. Insurance is relatively cheap, I get decent mileage, and, it a Jeep!

I'm surprised they didn't try to convert you to R-134a.

I was surprised they stuck with R-12 too.

You got off cheap so far, I think I must have a good $4000 invested in fixes (just parts, not including my labor) on my 87, and $3000 on my 85, and 89. Of course my daughters fender benders contributed half of that to the 89 costs.:gag:

 

[Saudade]

You got off cheap so far

If I had to pay labor on all the things I've done, I would have torched it years ago. However, wrenching on it is pretty good therapy so if I factor that in, I'm WAAAAYYYYY ahead.

 

[Ecomike]

If I had to pay labor on all the things I've done, I would have torched it years ago. However, wrenching on it is pretty good therapy so if I factor that in, I'm WAAAAYYYYY ahead.

If I had paid for labor on all of mine, I would be up to about $20,000 each, and I have only owned them for 2, 4 and 6 years each.

 

[wgregt]

Today was condenser behind the grill, so the radiator had to come out, and I did top & bottoom radiator hose since they were the original ones, 21 years old.

Fans and fans clutches work normally.

It leaked from the bottom fitting on the condenser. Apparently the nut was steel and the corresponding condenser attachment was aluminum, LIke I said, it's been on there 21 years. I know...I keep records like you would not believe from day one.

Guess I got lucky with the no leaks thing. I know I have never added freon to it, and I know it blew cold and good until last week when it slowly started getting warmer. I have the same stock AC hi/lo pressure hoses until yesterday.

Did they use vaseline?

What exactly did they replace? Hoses? filter dryer? Did they add a high pressure switch to protect the condenser from overpressure?

Are both fans working properly ALL the time? Overpressure would blow the condenser, or the old style over pressure valve. Where exactly did it leak?

Oh, and I have never heard of an AC system on a car running leak free that long. AC high pressure hose is usually shot in under 10 years.

 

[wgregt]

I'm surprised they didn't try to convert you to R-134a.

Most places did. I didn't bite. I ain't fixing something that ain't broke. All I had to do was search around for a place that still buys/sells R-12 here in SoCal. If not, next stop was either AZ or TJ, Mexico.

From what I hear/read, R-134 ain't as cold as R-12 in the cabin either, plus I hear that R-134 shortens the life of the condenser on a retrofit.

I got 21 years on a condenser. I ain't gonna fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[wgregt]

You got off cheap so far.:gag:

Oh this ain't the only thing I've had to fix, but I've never been inside the block or had the valve cover off yet. Mostly wearable items...radiators, alt's, brakes, hoses, belts...regular schtuff.

 

[Saudade]

I ended up taking the test to get my EPA cert so I could buy directly (cost me $15). Got some on eBay. I hope I have enough "in stock" now for another 20 years.

FYI: If you "certify" that you are buying solely for the purpose of reselling to a certified tech, you can buy on eBay as well.

 

[MaxxXJ]

i have this basic problem as well, but i have a 2000xj auto 4.0 and for a year my a/c blew cold, it got hot and the a/c blew cool air, took it in to get the freon filled and dye added, it blew cold for maybe a month, we got another series of hot days, now its blowing cool, i havent taken a temp reader to it yet but its not as cold as it used to be, it may have been the 105degree day in an SUV but i want my a/c to run right.

i was going to take it to a shop on monday to see where it's leaking, but as luck has it, i got a ticket last night(not in my xj thou) so now i gotta worry about paying that first and taking traffic school so it can get removed from my record.

have you got your a/c problem resolved yet?

update: so i went outside right now(97 degrees with 20% humidity), turned on my 2000 xj and my 2005 honda civic i let them run with the a/c on high for a good 3-4 minutes to let them cool down the cabin the jeep had the upper hand i had a sun screen up on both the front windows and door windows so the cabin was considerably cooler from the start, ANYWAYS, i used my temperature gun i used to use for my gas RC truck to check the termperature of the air coming out of my vents in both my cars, i checked my honda and its between 60-70 degrees depending on what spot i read from. 60 degrees being the coldest spot on my vents. but on the other hand my XJ was reading between 80-95 degrees. with again 80ish being the coldest spot on my a/c vent. their both running R 134, the jeep just got serviced less than a month ago and the hondas never been serviced. so obviously theres a leak somewhere. im just hoping this time my mechanic finds the problem when i go to take it in....

 

[Ecomike]

i have this basic problem as well, but i have a 2000xj auto 4.0 and for a year my a/c blew cold, it got hot and the a/c blew cool air, took it in to get the freon filled and dye added, it blew cold for maybe a month, we got another series of hot days, now its blowing cool, i havent taken a temp reader to it yet but its not as cold as it used to be, it may have been the 105degree day in an SUV but i want my a/c to run right.

i was going to take it to a shop on monday to see where it's leaking, but as luck has it, i got a ticket last night(not in my xj thou) so now i gotta worry about paying that first and taking traffic school so it can get removed from my record.

have you got your a/c problem resolved yet?

update: so i went outside right now(97 degrees with 20% humidity), turned on my 2000 xj and my 2005 honda civic i let them run with the a/c on high for a good 3-4 minutes to let them cool down the cabin the jeep had the upper hand i had a sun screen up on both the front windows and door windows so the cabin was considerably cooler from the start, ANYWAYS, i used my temperature gun i used to use for my gas RC truck to check the termperature of the air coming out of my vents in both my cars, i checked my honda and its between 60-70 degrees depending on what spot i read from. 60 degrees being the coldest spot on my vents. but on the other hand my XJ was reading between 80-95 degrees. with again 80ish being the coldest spot on my a/c vent. their both running R 134, the jeep just got serviced less than a month ago and the hondas never been serviced. so obviously theres a leak somewhere. im just hoping this time my mechanic finds the problem when i go to take it in....

No guarantee it is a leak. Could a be vacuum problem with fresh air door / recirculation door not closing for Max air AC setting on the XJ

wgregt,

I find it real hard to believe you replaced the radiator in 21 years and not the rad hoses during the same time, prior to the past week. How many miles are on that beast? You are the OO? And the valve cover gasket is 21 years old?

 

[wgregt]

wgregt,

I find it real hard to believe you replaced the radiator in 21 years and not the rad hoses during the same time, prior to the past week. How many miles are on that beast? You are the OO? And the valve cover gasket is 21 years old?

I am the original owner. Over 309k. And yeah, I have replaced the radiator itself probably 3-4 times, but the hoses were never leaking and not swollen so I didn't do it. I'm not real big on replacing stuff that is not actually broken/worn. I paid for the whole thing, I usually let stuff run till it fails.

And yes, the valve cover gasket is OEM. Never had the cover off. No need to yet.

 

[winterbeater]

A key sign to where the AC problem is, is whether the tube going to the firewall is getting frosted up or not. Look at your Honda. It's probably frosted. Your XJ probably isn't. If your line is frosted and your not getting cold, look at your blend door function or evaporator freeze up. If it's not frosted, low freon is the first suspect. Other possibility is compressor / clutch gap / etc.

 

[MaxxXJ]

A key sign to where the AC problem is, is whether the tube going to the firewall is getting frosted up or not. Look at your Honda. It's probably frosted. Your XJ probably isn't. If your line is frosted and your not getting cold, look at your blend door function or evaporator freeze up. If it's not frosted, low freon is the first suspect. Other possibility is compressor / clutch gap / etc.

the condenser NEVER got frozen like my 84 chevy used to. it gets cool but never froze, and i never really recall any tubes getting frozen either, i just got my ac refilled on 7/2/09 and about 2 days ago its blowing hot again, im pretty sure their's a leak somewhere.

No guarantee it is a leak. Could a be vacuum problem with fresh air door / recirculation door not closing for Max air AC setting on the XJ

everytime i turn on my a/c to max cold it starts blowing from the feet/top vent then almost immediatly you hear a door creek closed/open and then it starts blowing thru my vents as normal.

its just blowing hot air... its wont get cold on any settings =/