• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

closed system: WAY too much pressure

Go with radiatorbarn.com instead. Lots of positive responses about them (including me).

When I ordered an "all-metal radiator" from radiatorwarehouse a few years back for the ZJ, I got one with plastic tanks that leaked within 4 months. The bastards wouldn't ship a new one until I shipped the bad one back at my expense, then they had nerve to try and bill me $35 shipping the replacement.
 
RickyN29 said:
Wait, why is the open cooling system a touchy subject?!?!?!?!

any subject on this forum could be a touchy subject, because as XJ'ers, we're passionate about our rigs. there are advocates for both the closed system and modding to the open system and they are like oil and water, it's a Hasta issue since you cannot prove opinions...
 
To further "truth", I'd say no one has articulated why one system is used over the other, or why one is better than the other. From a number of posts, I've read other auto mfg's use the so-called "closed" system as well as the early XJ. So why the differences? And, exactly what is a closed vs open system?
In the "olden" days, most (all?) cooling systems were closed. The expansion "bottle" was built into the radiator. When you filled a radiator, you did not fill it to the top; you left an air space to accommodate coolant expansion. Also, in all of the cases I've worked with over the years, the top of the radiator was always higher than the engine. This does not seam to be true any longer. The XJ's "closed" system uses an expansion tank located on the firewall, at a point insuring it's the highest point in the cooling system. The other system, which many on this board refer to the "open" system, really isn't open. The expansion function is just dealt with differently, using more moving parts than the early XJ system. The ability to cool the engine is the same in eather system, and the thing that irritates me the most is when someone complains of over heating, the first cry in resolving the over heating problem is to "modify
that piece of shit "closed" system. Now, I also had the closed system on my XJ before swapping engines, and I too, had problems with the plastic expansion tank. The only time I ever had overheating was when the bottle cracked, releasing coolant, or the new-style pressure cap would not properly seal, releasing coolant, and once, when my tired radiator became partially clogged. Now it's obvious, in any one of my cases of over heating, converting to the "open" system would have solved my problem, just like installing a new engine will solve my noisy lifter problem (if I had one); however, replacing the faulty component also solved my overheating problem, at a fraction of the cost and time it would take to change out the complete cooling system. Again, how about some real tech talk on the differences.
 
xjbubba said:
how about some real tech talk on the differences.

i'm not sure if that comment was leveled at me, but I'll respond regardless, I purposefully avoided claiming preference for either system because it is a matter of opinion. Either system will cool your rig effectively, the closed system is what i have in mine, it's stock, and it was overheating because of system components failing. Once I got all the bad parts replaced/repaired, it works fine. I would whatever system was present in my rig, I have no preference. As for tech talk, there is no point claiming pro or con, because, as stated above, either will work fine once all the components are doing their job. I feel the closed system is more particular about routine inspection and maintenance because it runs a higher pressure, an example would be the Tstat housing, if you remove it and reinstall it, you'd damn well better use a new gasket, and sealant, and wait for that pooky to cure before you add coolant and try to run, else it's a guaranteed failure.
 
My comment was not directed at anyone in particular. It's really a "high jack", intended to get people thinking about the engineering behind a particular application. When you have a problem of any sort, understanding the basic design goes a long ways in helping you solve a problem. It would seem correctly understanding cooling system design would be beneficial to off-roaders. As an example, it's my understanding that the early XJ's cooling system does not operate at a higher pressure than the latter ones. The only indication we, as consumers, get regarding system operation is pressure cap ratings. I'd argue that using the cap ratings of the two systems to imply system operating pressure is incorrect. The "closed" system rating probably is an indication, since the system vents to atmosphere if that pressure is exceeded; however, the "open" system cap has two functions--not just one, like the "closed" system's cap. First, as the coolant expands, it exerts pressure on the cap, exceeding the caps first, and advertised rating, allowing the expanding fluid to escape. Once the fluid reaches design temperature, expansion stops. The second, is to allow the coolant to re-enter the cooling system as the engine/radiator coolant temp decreases, which results in contraction of the fluid volumn within the radiator. So the second valve in the "open" radiator cap opens to a vacuum. If the cap pressure is exceeded for an extended period, the coolant fills the reservoir bottle and vents to atmosphere. The "closed" system depends on the air trapped in the plastic expansion tank to accommodate coolant expansion/contraction. However, if the engine incurs a sustained over temp condition, the expanding coolant--not steam, will exceed the pressure cap's upper limit and expel coolant. What I'd like see answered is why did we move away from the "olden-time" closed systems? And I don't think increased operating temperature was the reason. So, why? Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
Back
Top