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Can i re-route my serp belt with no ac, no fan, no idler?

95cherjustin

NAXJA Forum User
Location
doylestown, pa
95 xj tearing out ac because pulley locked up. Can i start belt around power steering to the right and down to crank then to alternator and then under water pump back to power steering?

I already grinded the alt bracket out of the way so the belt can pass through it.

So in the end no more ac, idler, and fan because i have electric fans.

Napa will let my try belts until one fits, i used a string and it works perfect and all pullies still run same direction i believe
 
Recall that the smooth pullys run in the opposite direction of the grooved ones (they run on the backside of the belt.)

However, there should be a "dummy" pully available to replace the aircon compressor (had the same problem in my 88 - but I'd already gotten a dummy pully and put a new bearing in it) which solved the problem. Remove the studs from the fan/idler pully and re-attach the pully with 1/4"-20x1/2" screws, install the dummy, and use the original routing - it's really easier that way.

If you're set on rerouting the belt, keep the following guidelines in mind:
- Power Steering minimum wrap - 135*
- Alternator minimum wrap - 100*
- Water Pump minimum wap - 100*
- Idler pully minimum wrap - 0*
- Fan pully minimum wrap - 90-100* (since you're not running the fan, that's essentially an idler pully now.)

Did I miss any?
 
- Power Steering minimum wrap - 135*
- Alternator minimum wrap - 100*
- Water Pump minimum wap - 100*
- Idler pully minimum wrap - 0*
- Fan pully minimum wrap - 90-100* (since you're not running the fan, that's essentially an idler pully now.)



Could you elaborate on this a little more 5-90? I know I'm not the original poster but I'm interested in the process. Also what's your opinion of doing this and how many horses this would free up?


Parakeet
 
Could you elaborate on this a little more 5-90? I know I'm not the original poster but I'm interested in the process. Also what's your opinion of doing this and how many horses this would free up?


Parakeet

"Belt wrap" refers to the angle that would be included in the arc where the belt touches the pully. One-quarter way around is 90*, one-third way around is 120*, one-half way around is 180*. The more torque you have to transmit via belt, the more wrap you need (the most you can practically get, using idler pullys on one or both sides, is about 270-280* of wrap.)

For the power to be freed up, it depends largely upon the power draw of each individual accessory. Removing the aircon is probably the biggest gain (replace with an "AC Delete Pully" or a "Dummy Pully" as I mentioned earlier,) and you'll pick up whatever the aircon was drawing (but only if you routinely have it turned on. When it's off and the electromechanical clutch is released, the pully is essentially an idler anyhow.)

I don't have any specifics on what the mechanical fan draws - but it's typically only a handful of horsepower (removing the studs and replacing with the short screws is done simply to get you some more working clearance.)

Power Steering is usually a fairly heavy draw (most hydraulic pumps are,) but you'll probably want to keep that.

The power draw of the alternator varies according to current output - the more current you need, the more resistance to turning and the more force it takes to turn.

Eliminating idler pullys will do effectively nothing to give you back power. Yeah, you'll get some (purely nominal!) gains from reducing the driven mass of the belt and associated system, but that's about it - and it's not worth bothering with, unless you're trying to wring every little bit of power out of your engine. Even then, you really only do this if you've already done everything you possibly can to the engine internals (head flow work, valve port flow work, rollerised rockers, rollerised lifters, ...)

The guidelines I've given for belt wrap might be a bit off - as an error on the side of caution. If you get some extra wrap, that doesn't mean you're going to put more power into an accessory than it needs - that just means that you're less likely to have belt slip under load. Non-cogged belt drives work on friction, and increasing wrap increases friction between the belt and the pully. (A cogged belt - like a timing belt - is a "positive drive" system, akin to a chain/sprocket setup. The accessory drive belt is a "friction drive" setup - and you need a certain amount of friction for effective power transmission.)
 
There was a post about this not to long ago from someone else wanting to remove their a/c and put in the a/c delete pulley. My answer to this is the same as in that thread, instead of trying to redesign the belt layout and risk not having the minimum belt wrap on pulleys, why not do what alot of people do and move the alt up top so it takes the place of the a/c and keeps the belt routing and wrap correctly oriented. Just do a quick search for a/c delete and relocate alternator should get you a few threads of the how to and benefits.
 
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