Brake Problems!!!

[chrisja77]

LOL...went from upgrades to problems.....HELP!!!!!!! Here is the deal. Broke the rear brake line Sunday while out trail riding at Pickwick lake in TN, and all my fluid drained out. We got it crimped off, but didn't have any brake fluid, so we filled it up with auto transmission fluid to get me home. I got it drained and flushed out today, and replaced both rear brake lines, and all the goodies inside of the drums. Got my front disc brakes bled off with no problems, but I can't get my rear ones to bleed!!! When we try to bleed them, we pump the pedal and open up the bleeder valve. Nothing comes out....no air, no nothing. I went ahead and unhooked the rear brake line from the distribution block at the rear, and nothing. Fluid will just barely drip out when the pedal is pressed, and we are not loosing any fluid out of the reservoir, so it's not going anywhere. Could the transmission fluid have clogged up the line for the rear? If so, how do I unclog it? Is there something else that would be causing this?

 

[chrisja77]

Ok, here's what I've done so far. Took the brake line loose from the MC. Here is what I get. I can pump the brakes and get one good squirt. I can pump them again and get nothing. Wait a few seconds and pump it again and get a good squirt. The front brakes are working great, so I took that line off, and the MC did the same thing. I guess this is normal then. I tried to blow through the brake line and see what happened, but I couldn't get a good enough seal on my broke ass blower nozzle to get air to really push through there. It does have antilock brakes, and goes through an ABS valve and motor under the hood also. Any other help here? The fluid that I did get to leak out of the rear was red, so it was getting the atf back there...just not now... How safe would it be to just take out all the abs crap? There are alot of little brake lines in there running from here to there that could just go in the trash and make lots of room under the hood for....mmmmm....I don't know, but something could go there later....lol OBA maybe?

 

[RCP Phx]

Search for another very recent thread.Proportioning valves are bad,but ABS is the "nightmare" when it comes to bleeding brakes.If you by chance ran it dry you will have to start completely over.

 

[chrisja77]

it ran 100% dry....that doesn't sound good. Guess I got to find out how to start over now...lol

 

[98XJeep]

when you put the tranny fluid in your brake system you ruined the entire system, no amount of flushing will fix that, anything with rubber will need to be replaced, master cyl, hoses,wheel cyl, calipers, there are threads about removing the ABS, if you want too(because that will be bad too), sorry but if you don't do it all and flush the steel lines BEFORE installing the new parts it will cause problems down th e road.
the best thing to put in your MC when it's empty is water, yes WATER, any other oil/fluid will destroy your brake system

 

[chrisja77]

Is it really that bad since it was only in there for a short time?

 

[98XJeep]

it was in there long enough to cause you problems allready, I know it sucks but I have seen this many times, some times it takes awhile for problems to surface but they will, brakes will drag, won't apply, the list goes on. also don't for get the proportioning valve. it has rubber too.

 

[RCP Phx]

Is it really that bad since it was only in there for a short time?

Total BS,ATF is used as hydraulic fluid all the time.You will need to bleed the entire system 1 piece at a time.First the MC,then the MC and ABS,then the MC/ABS/ and then the brakes.The Proportioning valve may also need to be re-set!

 

[98XJeep]

Total BS,ATF is used as hydraulic fluid all the time.You will need to bleed the entire system 1 piece at a time.First the MC,then the MC and ABS,then the MC/ABS/ and then the brakes.The Proportioning valve may also need to be re-set!

did you read the first post? he can't get fluid from the MC it's already clogged up. and yes ATF is a hydraulic fliud, but the fact is if you put ANY type of petroluem fluid in your brake system it will ruin it, I have personally driven a 03 dodge 4x4 5.9 that would barely pull it's own weight after he topped his fluid off with ATF, all four brakes were locked so hard the rotor's turned blue.and all four calipers were smoking!!

 

[chrisja77]

I took the brake line off the MC, and did get fluid from there....my fluid is being blocked somewhere between there and the rear. I don't want to tackle the abs if I can help it after a little reading, so I guess my proportioning valve is next. Someone before me has rounded off all the heads for the brake lines, so I'm having MAJOR problems trying to get them all unhooked.

 

[RCP Phx]

Yours happened for a different reason,most likely his problem is a bleeding issue.Atf wont work as a high temp brake fluid,but it sure as hell wont do any permanent damage.I guess my 40 year old (atf ) hydraulic throttle shouldnt be working right now!

 

[98XJeep]

well good luck, I hope it works out for you. I'll check in tomorrow and see how your doing.

 

[bcmaxx]

sorry to hear, water is the best possible thing to put in there as it does not compress and will not degrade rubber,etc. I had a friend used 80w90 in an emergency situation, he ended up replacing everything but the metal hard lines.

 

[98XJeep]

Yours happened for a different reason,most likely his problem is a bleeding issue.Atf wont work as a high temp brake fluid,but it sure as hell wont do any permanent damage.I guess my 40 year old (atf ) hyd throllte shouldnt be working right now!

I'll make a bet with you there smarty, drain half of your master cyl and top it off with ATF and see what happens, you name the price. you may know jeeps, but you don't no crap about brakes, why do you think they put a warning on the cap of your master cyl that says USE ONLY BRAKE FLIUD!Hasta

 

[RCP Phx]

I'll make a bet with you there smarty, drain half of your master cyl and top it off with ATF and see what happens, you name the price. you may know jeeps, but you don't no crap about brakes, why do you think they put a warning on the cap of your master cyl that says USE ONLY BRAKE FLIUD!Hasta

Your making this crazy,nothing would hapen,ATF is lighter than brake fluid,but that doesnt make any difference.If he will purge the system properly with BRAKE fluid,there should be no permanent harm.

 

[chrisja77]

Allright fella's, here is where I sit now. Took off the proportioning valve and could not blow air through it. Took it apart and took the spring out. Blew more air through it...it still wouldn't go through....then....POW...the cylinder in the center went flying across the garage. I found it, and took the rubber seal out, and put it back together. Put it back in the jeep and WOW, I have fluid coming through to my rear end now. Looks like the valve was stuck. Was it trash in the lines or the atf fluid eating everything in site? Only time will tell now. I pumped the brakes until I didn't see anything but clear fluid coming from the rear distribution block, so I got most of it out. Still have a red tint to the side of my MC, so I'm gonna do some more cleaning to that. Hopefully if I bleed my brakes every couple of days for the next week or so, I can get it all out. Wish me luck!!! And I think I've learned my lesson about having ALL the fluids in your truck on the trail with you!!!

 

[98XJeep]

it's not the weight, it's not the fact that is, can,and does get used as a hydraulic fluid, it's the fact that it causes the rubber seals used in brake systems to swell and cause restrictions. If you don't want to belive me fine, your loss.

 

[RCP Phx]

Allright fella's, here is where I sit now. Took off the proportioning valve and could not blow air through it. Took it apart and took the spring out. Blew more air through it...it still wouldn't go through....then....POW...the cylinder in the center went flying across the garage. I found it, and took the rubber seal out, and put it back together. Put it back in the jeep and WOW, I have fluid coming through to my rear end now. Looks like the valve was stuck. Was it trash in the lines or the atf fluid eating everything in site? Only time will tell now. I pumped the brakes until I didn't see anything but clear fluid coming from the rear distribution block, so I got most of it out. Still have a red tint to the side of my MC, so I'm gonna do some more cleaning to that. Hopefully if I bleed my brakes every couple of days for the next week or so, I can get it all out. Wish me luck!!! And I think I've learned my lesson about having ALL the fluids in your truck on the trail with you!!!

Thats what I was trying to tell you(got sidetracked).If your not carefull when bleeding the brakes,the Proportioning valve will "blow" to 1 side and stick/stay!If you ran the system "dry" never "pump" the pedal w/o first doing a gravity or vacumn bleed!

 

[chrisja77]

Got a question I can't find an answer to. I have read that alot of people pull the o ring out of the PV to get more fluid to the rear when they do the disc conversion. Would this help me get better rear brakes with drums still back there? I have the seal out right now, just wondering if it will be better like that or if I need to reinstall it...

 

[89xj]

need to be carefull because too much pressure to a drum brake causes them to lock up. at slow speeds you may think thats ok, but on the highway going 70mph, you dont want to lock up the drums when you apply the brakes.