Adjustable rocker arms?

[Bloose]

I thought it was already confirmed that the BBF rockers were the correct dimensions, maybe not. I've never checked any of them myself.

B-loose

 

[FUNKYTEE5]

I'm not sure either? I'm hittin' the local U Pull It tomorrow, so i'll let y'all know what kind of rockers I can come up with that may be close. I gotta get a new wing window glass for my XJ. Some punks broke into it last night. grrrrrrr.

FUNKYTEE

 

[Bloose]

Ford 429/460 and the 400/351M plus the 351C all use the same rockers. 302/351W won't work and 360/390/352 etc use shaft rockers.

B-loose

 

[FUNKYTEE5]

Definitely not the FE 390/428 etc.. rockers. I've got a set waiting for a 428 project. Besides being shaft mounted, they use funky push rods and are usually 1.73 ratio. I'll Post tomorrow with my junkyard check.

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I thought it was already confirmed that the BBF rockers were the correct dimensions, maybe not. I've never checked any of them myself.
B-loose

I hope they are, but I also hope that they can be used with 3/8" studs. If they are only used with 7/16" studs, we'll have the same problem that we have with the BB Chevy rockers.

 

[Bloose]

I hope they are, but I also hope that they can be used with 3/8" studs. If they are only used with 7/16" studs, we'll have the same problem that we have with the BB Chevy rockers.

Scorpion makes a set of 5/16 bolt down studs for BBF. This is what I was thinking could be used. Ford Used the pedistal type rocker mounts on most 429/460 and most late model motors with Cleavland style heads. If the dimensions are correct I think you could make them work. But they would have to be made to work by using a setup like the late model Ford 5.0 heads. The Fords do not use the "bridge" set up like our 4.0L. But I have an idea in my little head I think would work slick. Sort of a dog bone setup, quite possibly no machining to the head! Doesn't pay to even think about it until we find out if the dimension are correct though.

B-loose

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Scorpion makes a set of 5/16 bolt down studs for BBF. This is what I was thinking could be used. Ford Used the pedestal type rocker mounts on most 429/460 and most late model motors with Cleveland style heads.

He he, I just discovered these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7933863619&category=33624

That's exactly what you just mentioned. Pedestal mount rockers will do fine. Like you said, I hope the dimensions are correct. The 1.73 ratio rockers will do fine if you have the stock cam (lift will increase from 0.424" to 0.458") but since I have the Crane 753905 cam with 0.456"/0.484" lift, I need 1.6's. Unfortunately for me, stock Ford BB rockers are 1.73 ratio so there aren't any 1.6's.

 

[Dr. Dyno]

I hope they are, but I also hope that they can be used with 3/8" studs. If they are only used with 7/16" studs, we'll have the same problem that we have with the BB Chevy rockers.

Well, it seems that stud-mounted Ford BB RR's do use 7/16" studs so it'll have to be either pedestal mount 1.73 ratio RR's with 5/16" bolts or nothing.

 

[Bloose]

Has anyone checked wheather the BBF rockers are the correct dimensions?

Dyno,

Why would 1.73 rockers not be usable with your cam? What are you thinking max lift is for your setup. With the cam you mention you would still be under .500 on the intake side. Plus duration would change very little if any (duration is measured at the cam so technically changing rocker ratios doesn't affect it). As a matter of fact when I went from 1.6's to 1.72 Scorpion rollers on my SBF I noticed no difference at all in drivability, idle, low end torque, etc. I went from .498 lift to around .550. If you are not at coil bind with your setup and 1.73 rockers I would think they would work fine.

B-loose

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Since I have the Crane 753905 cam (0.456"/0.484" lift with 1.6 rockers), the valve lift with 1.73 rockers will be 0.493"/0.523". My Mopar 5249464 springs are rated to 0.525" lift so I'm still OK with those but I'm concerned that the piston to valve clearance might be a bit tight. I didn't mill anything from the block nor the head but I AM using the Mopar 0.043" head gasket which is 0.008" thinner than OEM.

 

[Bloose]

Since I have the Crane 753905 cam (0.456"/0.484" lift with 1.6 rockers), the valve lift with 1.73 rockers will be 0.493"/0.523". My Mopar 5249464 springs are rated to 0.525" lift so I'm still OK with those but I'm concerned that the piston to valve clearance might be a bit tight. I didn't mill anything from the block nor the head but I AM using the Mopar 0.043" head gasket which is 0.008" thinner than OEM.

Check you P/V clearence as is and go from there. You might be supprised how much room there is. Then again I've never do a 4.0 so I really have no idea, but it's worth a check. More lift should give you more at the top without sacraficing the bottom. If you have the clearence you have a win win.

B-loose

 

[FUNKYTEE5]

Dyno,

What about the Scorpion Pedistal mount BBF rockers?

B-loose

Ok guys, here's what I found from several trips to a few junkyards. I checked the; Ford 460, 300ci. I-6, 351w, GM 151ci 4cyl "Iron Duke", 250ci I-6, SBC, AMC 360, and a few others. I found that the V8 rocker arms were more compact than inline rockers. This is due to the fact that most V8 heads have the valves canted towards the intake manifold. And the pushrods are usually angled towards the valves, leaving less room for the rocker arm itself to take up. As with the traditional inline engine, most of them have the valves oriented perpindicular to the cylinder head, and the pushrod angles are near vertical also. Making more room for the rocker arm to fill between the pushrod,fulcrum, and valve tip. I first found some 460 BBF rockers and they looked to be on the short side as compared to the 4.0 rocker. They also posed the 7/16 stud issue, so I favored them out. Then i found a 360ci AMC in a older Wagoneer. They are the right ratio and fit the 4.0 pivot, but again they were too short! These were the only V8 rockers that I could find that were remotely close, all the rest were far too short. As for the inline rockers, it looks as though all of them would be happy on a 4.0 head. After doing a mock setup on my project HO head, I found that all of them would be compatible dimension wise. All of the inline motor rockers were stud mounted. The Ford I-6 and the GM I-6 rockers were already sitting on 3/8 studs. The GM I-4 151ci./2.5L rockers were mounted on metric studs, but used to be mounted on 3/8 studs (pre 1982 or so). As for ratios, the Ford rockers are 1.6, the GM I-6 are 1.7, and the I-4's are 1.6. I know that roller rocker arms for the inline sixes are quite spendy. So here's what I found! The rockers for the 151 inline 4 fit the 4.0 head the best as far as rocker to valve tip contact. I did some research and and found that Scorpion makes a Roller for this motor in 1.5 and 1.6 ratio both 3/8 stud mount pn#SCP1076 and SCP1078 at www.flatlanderracing.com/scorpionrockers.html Better yet, a set of 8 they're selling for $105!! Now, i'm not sure if you can purchase singles or odd numbers of them but it's worth a try. If we can use these rockers along with some 5/16-3/8 rocker studs and slight milling, then I can't find any reason why it wouldn't work. If all you wanted was more lift, then you could setup the head for 3/8 studs, and get some stock 1.7 rockers and pivots for a GM I-6 (194 ,230 ,250 ,292) and there you have it! No messin with pushrod length! Again, this is all in my head an not proven yet, but valvetrain ain't rocket science!

FUNKYTEE

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Stud mounted rockers

Just remember that with stud-mounted rockers, you're also going to need guideplates and hardened pushrods as well as the studs so add these to the overall cost. If you buy two sets of Pontiac I4 rockers, the total cost will be $210 (rockers) + $69 (studs) + $18 (guideplates) + $40 (pushrods) = $337

Other alternatives to consider are:
Harland Sharp Ford I6 1.6 RR's 3/8" stud mount S4002: $242 per set
Harland Sharp Chevy I6 1.75 RR's 3/8" stud mount S3002: $242 per set

These would push the total cost even higher to $369, and that's without the possibility that the rocker stud bosses might need to be shortened or a valve cover spacer ($80) installed so that the rockers clear the valve cover.
For me, the Yella Terra RR's look more tempting because they're an easy bolt-on conversion. Prices are:

YT6627 non-adjustables: $440 from Quadratec, $380 US from Yella Terra in Oz
YT6328 adjustables: $420 US from Yella Terra in Oz + $80 Hesco valve cover spacer

 

[FUNKYTEE5]

Re: Stud mounted rockers

Just remember that with stud-mounted rockers, you're also going to need guideplates and hardened pushrods as well as the studs so add these to the overall cost. If you buy two sets of Pontiac I4 rockers, the total cost will be $210 (rockers) + $69 (studs) + $18 (guideplates) + $40 (pushrods) = $337

Other alternatives to consider are:
Harland Sharp Ford I6 1.6 RR's 3/8" stud mount S4002: $242 per set
Harland Sharp Chevy I6 1.75 RR's 3/8" stud mount S3002: $242 per set

These would push the total cost even higher to $369, and that's without the possibility that the rocker stud bosses might need to be shortened or a valve cover spacer ($80) installed so that the rockers clear the valve cover.
For me, the Yella Terra RR's look more tempting because they're an easy bolt-on conversion. Prices are:

YT6627 non-adjustables: $440 from Quadratec, $380 US from Yella Terra in Oz
YT6328 adjustables: $420 US from Yella Terra in Oz + $80 Hesco valve cover spacer

That's what Ebay's for! Why buy retail? Still, if all you wanted was more lift with the 1.7 stock rockers out of the chevy I-6, it'd be a fairly cheap route. They're self centering, so no hardened pushrods or guideplates would be needed. Simple, like the SBC. Then, down the road you could convert it to roller. Heck, I might just stick with the 1.7's? The power increase may be near equivelant to the roller 1.6's with mild springs. Usually the good gains in the roller department start coming with far elevated spring pressures. Anyways, I'm gonna gather the pieces and do it. I just scored a 04' intake for 50.00 at a local junkyard. So I'll be bolting on a ported head with 1.7's, 99+ intake, borla header, and mandrel 2.5" out. I'm hoping for good gains. My rig is all stock with a plugged cat right now!! Thanks for your interest

FUNKYTEE

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Re: Stud mounted rockers

That's what Ebay's for! Why buy retail? Still, if all you wanted was more lift with the 1.7 stock rockers out of the chevy I-6, it'd be a fairly cheap route.

Yeah, I've already looked on e-bay but you're not going to see RR's for an I6 that use 3/8" studs very often. There's a set of Harland Sharp Ford I6 RR's on e-bay right now but they use 7/16" studs.
I'm not looking for more lift anyway. With anything over 0.500" lift, I risk interference between the spring retainers and the valve stem oil seals.
I want a set of RR's mainly to eliminate the small amount of rocker noise that I have from my stroker and to have a low friction valvetrain.

 

[FUNKYTEE5]

Re: Stud mounted rockers

Yeah, I've already looked on e-bay but you're not going to see RR's for an I6 that use 3/8" studs very often. There's a set of Harland Sharp Ford I6 RR's on e-bay right now but they use 7/16" studs.
I'm not looking for more lift anyway. With anything over 0.500" lift, I risk interference between the spring retainers and the valve stem oil seals.
I want a set of RR's mainly to eliminate the small amount of rocker noise that I have from my stroker and to have a low friction valvetrain.

Hey, that's all good Dr. Dyno there aint nothing wrong with rollers! I'm just trying to find the most budget route to more power. I just can't justify spending $400+ for rockers yet! I've got too much else to do to my XJ still! Heck, my cat is still plugged!

FUNKYTEE5

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Re: Stud mounted rockers

Hey, that's all good Dr. Dyno there aint nothing wrong with rollers! I'm just trying to find the most budget route to more power. I just can't justify spending $400+ for rockers yet!

He he, so am I, but the cheapest combo that I've found is $380 and that's the YT6627A's directly from Yella Terra.
The Crower combo equals the YT combo for price if you go for the Crower 72848-12 aluminium RR's ($270), Crower 88416-12 studs ($56), CompCams 4842-6 guideplates ($18), and Crower 70158-12 pushrods ($36). Total $380.
The Harland Sharp S40096's cost $285 and they need the same hardware as the Crowers, so total cost $395.

I've just added another page to my performance website with comprehensive details about Jeep RR's and other valvetrain parts:

http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/valvetrain.html

 

[HodgePodge]

Any new developments lately?!

 

[Dr. Dyno]

No. My conclusion is that anything other than Jeep I6 specific RR's are a non-starter. Even RR's from other I6's will be a gamble and these seem to be equally as expensive and not worth the risk.
Whichever way you look at it, $380 is the minimum you're gonna spend if you want RR's for your 4.0/4.2/stroker and I don't think the benefit is enough to justify the cost.

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Mopar Performance Adj Roller Rockers.... Brand spankin new

$250

EBAY baby!