ROKRWLR
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Arvada, CO
So.... This weekend I had some major engine trouble on Carnage (again). Until about 10 minutes ago, I though my motor was frozen and done. Here's what happened and what I know so far....
I was in the V Notch on my passenger side for probably too long and after a while of trying to work the Jeep out of the notch, the motor died on me. It did restart but died after a few seconds. It restarted maybe 1 or 2 more times (still on my side) and died quickly each time. While still laying in the notch, we thought maybe it was hydro locked, so I pulled the coil packs and plugs to clear out whatever might be in there, but the plugs were dry. The motor would not crank even with the plugs out. We gave the starter some whacks with a hammer and it cranked maybe 1/2" of belt movement at a try. I tried hand cranking the motor from the flywheel bolt (plugs still out), but all it did was keep tightening the bolt further but not moving the pulley at all. We checked the oil at the dipstick and it still looked clean, no shiny tell tale sign of bearing damage or milkyness sign of head trouble. I didn't think it over heated, neither the temp or oil pressure aftermarket warning lights came on during the struggle.
So, after this, I threw the plugs and coil packs back on and Toby and his pack of trail saviors winched me back down the waterfall to level ground. THANK YOU ROCK RASH GUYS, AGAIN! At this point I was hoping it was either battery or starter issue and not a seized motor, but the outlook wasn't looking good. I was still doing some dead motor winching during the extraction form the notch and also winched a wrangler with a blown tranny off the waterfall from my new resting spot. Seemed like the batteries were still providing a lot of current (2 new Optima yellow tops). We tried jump starting mine from the broken but running wrangler. At this point, my Jeep had been sitting for at least an hour or so cooling off. The jump start turned the motor about 1/2 revolution then stopped again and stopped moving the crank more than a tiny bit each try. Seemed like it was seized, so eventually we drug it back down to the entrance and winched it up on the trailer.
Now, fast forward a couple days. I now have a chain winch anchor bolted to my garage floor and I hand winched it with a come along uphill off the trailer and into its garage spot yesterday, gave it a try and still no cranking over. I put the battery charger on it this morning to charge the batteries back up after all the dead winching, the optima charger said I the batteries were 25% when it started up. I just went out for another fruitless attempt at starting it and the first crank attempt actually turned over what seemed like a full rotation then stopped again. That was surprising, so I tried again and got a little more movement, then went back to the tiny bit of movement on each try. I have a push button start, so I started rapidly tapping the start button trying to get it to crank more, then I must have passed the hard spot, and I got about 10 seconds of what sounded like very labored cranking until it started trying to fire. A few more seconds of cranking ant it started sputtering to life!
It actually started and was running pretty rough for a few seconds then came to an idle. It sounded like it was trying to clean itself out, but not a lot of smoking like you would think would be there if it were bogged down with oil. It idles "decent" and steady, but doesn't sound great. It isn't making any clanking or ticking, but sounds like there is a cylinder not firing, however after letting it run for a minute or two, I don't have any misfire error codes? I shut it down, then a few minutes later tried again and it fires right up with no hesitation, just the missing cylinder sound to it. One thing I do see is that the oil pressure is much higher than what it was out on the trail. I was seeing a little over 20 psi when sitting idling on the trail on my (cheap Jegs) aftermarket gauge and today after it fire, idling in the garage, it was up at 60, then came down to 50 after a bit. Seems higher than it ran before. I think it was heating up faster than before, but don't know if that's just my mind playing tricks on me because of the issues I had. After running for about 5 minutes, It was still not hot enough to kick the fans on yet.
So I guess I have a few questions.
1: Does anyone know a way to test for spark when you have the distributor-less ignition with the coil-packs all on a single rail? I'm not sure if this is a spark or compression issue, but there's not any smoke when running.
2: Any ideas on what I may have done to the poor motor and what I should start looking for? Could the shitty 00-01 head have been an issue here?
3: With so much electronics, could this be a crank or cam or other sensor issue? I wouldn't think it would start again if it was. On my previous XJ, it cranked freely when the sensor went out, just never fired.
4: Could this just be a starter / battery issue and maybe I f-ed up the coil pack rail or a plug when pulling it apart off camber in the notch on the trail?
I'm not quite sure where to start diagnosing with the weird symptoms.
It's a 2001 engine with probably 60-70K on the motor that had been replaced earlier in the Jeeps life (from the dealership) just before I owned it. Radiator is 1 year old with not much mileage on it, oil is full synthetic, about a year old, but maybe only 300 miles on the oil change. Plugs are relatively new
Thanks guys!
I was in the V Notch on my passenger side for probably too long and after a while of trying to work the Jeep out of the notch, the motor died on me. It did restart but died after a few seconds. It restarted maybe 1 or 2 more times (still on my side) and died quickly each time. While still laying in the notch, we thought maybe it was hydro locked, so I pulled the coil packs and plugs to clear out whatever might be in there, but the plugs were dry. The motor would not crank even with the plugs out. We gave the starter some whacks with a hammer and it cranked maybe 1/2" of belt movement at a try. I tried hand cranking the motor from the flywheel bolt (plugs still out), but all it did was keep tightening the bolt further but not moving the pulley at all. We checked the oil at the dipstick and it still looked clean, no shiny tell tale sign of bearing damage or milkyness sign of head trouble. I didn't think it over heated, neither the temp or oil pressure aftermarket warning lights came on during the struggle.
So, after this, I threw the plugs and coil packs back on and Toby and his pack of trail saviors winched me back down the waterfall to level ground. THANK YOU ROCK RASH GUYS, AGAIN! At this point I was hoping it was either battery or starter issue and not a seized motor, but the outlook wasn't looking good. I was still doing some dead motor winching during the extraction form the notch and also winched a wrangler with a blown tranny off the waterfall from my new resting spot. Seemed like the batteries were still providing a lot of current (2 new Optima yellow tops). We tried jump starting mine from the broken but running wrangler. At this point, my Jeep had been sitting for at least an hour or so cooling off. The jump start turned the motor about 1/2 revolution then stopped again and stopped moving the crank more than a tiny bit each try. Seemed like it was seized, so eventually we drug it back down to the entrance and winched it up on the trailer.
Now, fast forward a couple days. I now have a chain winch anchor bolted to my garage floor and I hand winched it with a come along uphill off the trailer and into its garage spot yesterday, gave it a try and still no cranking over. I put the battery charger on it this morning to charge the batteries back up after all the dead winching, the optima charger said I the batteries were 25% when it started up. I just went out for another fruitless attempt at starting it and the first crank attempt actually turned over what seemed like a full rotation then stopped again. That was surprising, so I tried again and got a little more movement, then went back to the tiny bit of movement on each try. I have a push button start, so I started rapidly tapping the start button trying to get it to crank more, then I must have passed the hard spot, and I got about 10 seconds of what sounded like very labored cranking until it started trying to fire. A few more seconds of cranking ant it started sputtering to life!
It actually started and was running pretty rough for a few seconds then came to an idle. It sounded like it was trying to clean itself out, but not a lot of smoking like you would think would be there if it were bogged down with oil. It idles "decent" and steady, but doesn't sound great. It isn't making any clanking or ticking, but sounds like there is a cylinder not firing, however after letting it run for a minute or two, I don't have any misfire error codes? I shut it down, then a few minutes later tried again and it fires right up with no hesitation, just the missing cylinder sound to it. One thing I do see is that the oil pressure is much higher than what it was out on the trail. I was seeing a little over 20 psi when sitting idling on the trail on my (cheap Jegs) aftermarket gauge and today after it fire, idling in the garage, it was up at 60, then came down to 50 after a bit. Seems higher than it ran before. I think it was heating up faster than before, but don't know if that's just my mind playing tricks on me because of the issues I had. After running for about 5 minutes, It was still not hot enough to kick the fans on yet.
So I guess I have a few questions.
1: Does anyone know a way to test for spark when you have the distributor-less ignition with the coil-packs all on a single rail? I'm not sure if this is a spark or compression issue, but there's not any smoke when running.
2: Any ideas on what I may have done to the poor motor and what I should start looking for? Could the shitty 00-01 head have been an issue here?
3: With so much electronics, could this be a crank or cam or other sensor issue? I wouldn't think it would start again if it was. On my previous XJ, it cranked freely when the sensor went out, just never fired.
4: Could this just be a starter / battery issue and maybe I f-ed up the coil pack rail or a plug when pulling it apart off camber in the notch on the trail?
I'm not quite sure where to start diagnosing with the weird symptoms.
It's a 2001 engine with probably 60-70K on the motor that had been replaced earlier in the Jeeps life (from the dealership) just before I owned it. Radiator is 1 year old with not much mileage on it, oil is full synthetic, about a year old, but maybe only 300 miles on the oil change. Plugs are relatively new
Thanks guys!
