20w 50 for an XJ?

[Rick Anderson]

So what, then, would be considered "High Mileage?"

I've got nearly 250Kmiles (probably turn it over next week,) and I still use regular Castrol 10W-40. No problems, no leaks, no noises. Been using that since I got the thing - it's what I run in everything!

5-90

I know you, 5-90, know enough not to be fooled by marketing hype at the oil shelf of the store.

Its there for those that don't have a clue, and may buy this oil over others because they think it has added value because their car is older and has more miles than a new car.

Since we both know what this oil actually does, and we both keep enough care of our vehicles to know if its leaking or not and what is causing those leaks, we can make an informed decision about the oil.

If we had a motor with million miles on it, but the motor doesn't leak, or at least leak from seals that swelling would help, than why would we use it? Swelling up seals? If they haven't shrunk, then that would only hurt the seals, wouldn't it?

 

[5-90]

Unfortunately, cluelessness is becoming pandemic here, and manufacturing most of the world on the Western Pacific Rim has reduced prices to nearly the point of disposability. I tell people I've got well over 200Kmiles on my truck, and they get amazed - people are very nearly unwilling to break the first century on their vehicles anymore, much less working on a third...

Makes me want to start carrying around a "clue-by-four."

As far as the "high mileage" oil seal conditioners - if it ain't leaking, you don't need it. If it is leaking, fix it. I've worked that way since before the "high mileage" oils came out, and I shall continue doing so.

As far as checkouts - I find that spending a half-hour every three months for a detailed inspection saves me so much trouble. Finding a woman who understands basic mechanics (and marrying her - although I had other reasons as well. For starters, she knows too much about me to be running loose anyhow...) also helps - she's willing to pay attention to the simple problems I fix (and save me the trouble of doing it next time, usually,) and she understands the idea of symptomology well enough to tell me something more than "it's broken" when something goes wrong. Do you have any idea how many weeks that's saved me in the last ten years?

Of course, she took Driver's Ed back when they still taught you how to drive, and when they taught you how a car works at a basic level. It wasn't enough to become a mechanic, but it was enough to not get screwed by a mechanic...

Basic automotive knowledge has gone from being a rarity in women to being a rarity in general. Where did we go wrong?

5-90

 

[Dr. Dyno]

Where did we go wrong?

We, as motorists, didn't go wrong. Modern vehicles are becoming increasingly complex to the point that many cannot be fixed by shade tree mechanics like us, forcing motorists to take them to the stealership for specialist attention. That especially applies to electrical and electronic problems.
We're lucky that our Jeeps have simple mechanicals that can be fixed with relative ease on the driveway, and even the electronics can be troubleshot most of the time with a simple digital multimeter.

 

[Rick Anderson]

Tell me about it,

My daughter blew off her assignment for Driver's Ed till the night before. I was leaving for my 4 hour trip for Drill and told my wife she would have to do it with her. It was a 12 point check out for the vehicle, tires and fluids, thats it.

They stopped me in the driveway, because they could only figure out 3 of the 12 items. My wife couldn't find anything other than the oil dip stick and tires. Even though I've shown her and my daughter multiple times. I had to stop and show them, that the brake fluid is under the cap with "BRAKE FLUID" written on it. That the power steering fluid is under the cap with "POWER STEERING" written on it. I had to explain the instructions for checking the transmission fluid written on the dip stick to them, as well as remind them to read it.

How many times my neighbors have to stare at me backing up the Caravan in the street and slamming on the brakes to adjust the rear shoes. My wife usually drives it, and when I drive it once in a while the brake pedal height is down 2 or 3 inches. Despite showing her again and again, she says she never notices.

 

[5-90]

I still don't think it's just vehicle design that's the problem.

Basic maintenance has changed very little - you still check the dipsticks, you still lift the caps to check other fluids, and you'll usually know when something is going awry in the front end, just from the way the vehicle handles.

Maintenance is maintenance, and repairs is repairs. I'm not talking so much about repairs - just maintenance. Visual inspections, fluid checks, and keeping things clean go a LONG way toward saving dosh on repairs - even if you have to pay someone else to do the job. After all, if you can properly identify the problem, then you can be sure it gets fixed (or know when it doesn't.)

One thing that they seem to have stopped out here (much to the detriment of the public) is "shop" course in high school. It's nice that they're getting into robotics, and I think courses in micro/macroeconomics are farcical (I shan't go into why here,) but the world needs ditch-diggers too, and I can't think of any student that would not benefit from a basic shop course or three.

When I was in high school, there were a number of courses in the Shop department (I took most of them - I like working with my hands,) and there were a couple "Basic Shop" courses available that everyone wanted to take - "Car Owner Shop" - how to do basic vehicle maintenance and inspections; "Home Owner Shop" - how to do basic household repairs - changing switches and outlets, patching drywall, painting properly, and the like. Both were a semester, and I think they had something like 98% of all the students take them - as electives!

Took them? Hell, I helped teach them - I'd been doing that work since I was ten!

Now, you can't really find a "shop" course outside of a community college (while degrees in machine shop are nice things to have, the groundworks should still be laid in high school. Ditto maths, English, sciences, ...) and the number of "bonehead" basic subject courses seems to be increasing.

I don't fault the designers/engineers of vehicles (although I'd like to get the beancounters and corporate mouthpieces out of engineering decisions, and don't get me started on the appendices in marketing!) but the education is simply lacking - and that's not the fault of the automakers. I'm not sure where to lay the blame for that - I can't think it's the parents, since most of us are of a generation that knows how to do damn near everything on a basic level, and I'm not sure it's the students kvetching about the classes - although everyone seems to be aspiring to be a CEO these days.

Analysis, anyone?

5-90

 

[Rick Anderson]

Basic Shop,

Thats where I learned to weld, and got pretty darn good. I also got good with a torch, my shop teacher was steamed when he found the 6' I girder he was saving had been cut into hundreds of tiney pieces, though.

That plus access to military base hobby shops, I've done quite a few welding repairs on my own over the years. I'm hoping that I can get back enough skill with a little practice so that I can weld up my own floorpans here in the next couple of weeks. I've got friend that has a MIG welder with Gas, so I hope I can weld the sheetmetal myself without burning thru the metal, if not, its pop rivet time.

As far as faults in the auto-industry, I blame the consumer, quite frankly all the problems and rip-offs are because people are too ignorant and don't bother to eduacate themselves on basic mechanics and are too easy to rip-off. In other words, the consumer doesn't know enough to demand what they should get, and thus they never get it. If you couldn't get away with ripping people off, then anyone trying to rip off consumers would go out of business, the rip-off guys are thriving and putting the good ones out of business.

Keeping things clean - How many weird stares I have gotten when washing out my engine compartment and engine. People even ask why I would clean the engine? Ummm, so the engine doesn't rust away and the seals, hoses, wires and plastic doesn't get eaten up by chemicals and dirt? That look even more puzzled and then ask, why that would help, I guess they think cleaning something is only if you want to make it look pretty. And I know a few people if you saw their home or their children and their many illnesses, you'd believe they don't understand the importance that keeping things cleans means other than apperance.

 

[XJ Samo]

5-90
Would trans fluid have enough detergent? Used that on my Trooper (ex wife's now) which seemed to help. I just drained the oil left the filter on ran it for 30 minutes or so the drained, changed the filter and refilled with 10w30.
Thanks Sam

 

[5-90]

Yep. Dexron is transmission fluid. I believe it's somewhat less detergent than the old Type F (which used to work well for emergency hand cleaner - it cut through all the tough crap, then came off itself using only soap!) but it should do the job.

Yer local enough that I'm inclined to say come over and let's hear it - just to make sure you're addressing the right problem. Think we can make that happen? I'm on spring break for the week - I have a doctor's appointment to-morrow morning, and I've got another side job midday Friday - what works otherwise?

5-90

 

[DenLip]

Basic automotive knowledge has gone from being a rarity in women to being a rarity in general. Where did we go wrong?

I dunno for sure... but I do know this:

For a short time last summer, I owned a Chevy Cobalt.

The owner's manual for the Cobalt had a maintenance schedule in it. But oil changes were "as required" per the on-board oil-life monitoring system. The manual basically said something like "Your dealer knows your car best. They can assist you with basic maintenence".

Plus, my dealer gave me a "free" 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Free, provided that you have THEM do ALL the maintenence... on THEIR over-anxious schedule.

That certainly doesn't encourage do-it-yourself stuff.

And it was my first sign that I'd bought the WRONG CAR from the WRONG DEALER. The problem was rectified 3 months later...

Den

 

[ladywolf]

the newest vehicle i have is my baja. its a great rig, but for now i'll let the stealership do the scheduled stuff. i do check my own oil, etc. . at least once a month to make sure i'm not burning any. but i cant complain when i get free tire rotation, etc. . .

however i do the maintenance (or get my brother to help me) on both my jeeps. i'm not the greatest mechanic alive, but i can figure the simple stuff out.

 

[75SV1]

One other reason not to use 20W-50, I've noticed a 2 mpg loss when I ran it in a 351W. I also ran Mobil 1 20W-50 in my '96 Ford Contour. It ran a bit rougher. The 4 banger in it is noted to be a bit sensitive to oil. I changed to Pennsoil Platiunum Full synthetic 5W-30, much better now. I use 15W-40 Rotella in my '88 Comanche. It did have a lifter tick. I didn't try other oils.
As far as cleaning out an engine, the Tranny fluid is usually add one quart and run it for 500 miles. Then change it out. Berrymans Chem B-12 or Seafoam will also help. I have used the '5 Minute Motor Flush' before. I've heard its a bit rough and can cause damage. There are a few new products that people rave about. One is Auto RX and the other is LC. Both are mail order. I haven't tried either one.
I've run accross some people who have used the 'problem oils', like Kendall, '80 Quaker State, Pennziol, Wolfs Heads saying they had clean engines. They all said they changed the oil at 2K intervals. I go 5K to even 10K with full synthetics. I also use Napa Gold, Wix, Hastings and Purolator Pure One oil filters. The Mobil M1 oil filter is suppose to be better than them, but almost twice the price.
Tom

 

[Aquit45]

put whatever your owners man says. Thats what your engine was desinged to run with and nothing else. If it dosen't say to use 20w 50 then dont use it.

 

[TORX]

[FONT=&quot]As far as oil goes I just changed my oil a couple days ago and put in 6 Quarts of Chevron Delo 400 15W-40. My 4.0L has 220000 miles on it and it lopes and has a bad blow by problem (piston rings) but other than that I cant complain. I figured I would run Delo for a change or two to help clean the crankcase out a little hopefully the seals will be ok. When I changed it I started it up and it ran a little funny but then after a minute it smoothed out. I went on a drive today looking for elk and seeing where the snowline was for about 7 hours and was surprised it ran really well. I’m sure it got a good cleaning today and will continue to.

Now as far as modern day mechanics and basic car knowledge goes I learned from my dad watching him when I was younger then when I got my XJ he taught me even more plus from the board I’ve learned about suspensions, axles, and tons of great tips about my Jeep. I think a lot has to do with how you were raised if your family took there vehicles to get there oil changed or never opened the hood chances are there kids will be the same. I’ve noticed that the current American status symbols are a big SUV and big House and unfortunately living this type of lifestyle is all about money and when it comes to having to deal with a bad water pump chances are you will take it to the dealer.

TORX
[/FONT]

 

[ladywolf]

Now as far as modern day mechanics and basic car knowledge goes I learned from my dad watching him when I was younger then when I got my XJ he taught me even more plus from the board I’ve learned about suspensions, axles, and tons of great tips about my Jeep. I think a lot has to do with how you were raised if your family took there vehicles to get there oil changed or never opened the hood chances are there kids will be the same. I’ve noticed that the current American status symbols are a big SUV and big House and unfortunately living this type of lifestyle is all about money and when it comes to having to deal with a bad water pump chances are you will take it to the dealer.

TORX
[/FONT][/QUOTE]


thats very true. my dad runs a farm, so my older brother learned from him. me, i picked up stuff as i went, but wasnt really interested in mechanics till i joined the army and started working on helicopters. my jeeps are a lot simpler than my Baja. i want to get a lot better, so when i go home, am gonna make my brother spend some time with me and we'll go through the Heap. my younger brother has no mechanical knowledge whatsoever, and doesnt really care to, either. kinda bad in my opinion, but i guess as long as my dad is payin to fix the rig he drives, he'll continue to be that way.